Test the MMR in No man's land——Heroic level

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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raistlinz
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Test the MMR in No man's land——Heroic level

Postby raistlinz » Nov 29 2006, 3:12

Here is one of our aces do a test you've required on the certain map.

I test the MMR stratage on the map——No man's land. Yes, it's a very difficult map, more difficult than the Mystic's vale, the city starts with only one level. In heroic, it's hard to develop. But I conquered it also. I built the 5th tower in three weeks and finished the Rassa and gitan in four weeks. I got three magic schools, the light, summoning and destructive, I could use phenix, word of light, meteor shower and so on and I got the shoes.

My hero is nur, not Havez. I think all the Academy heroes can do it. I didn't load and save the game. In the end of 1st week, I lost 11 germlins for defeating about 50 markmans. In the third week, my sulfur is not good enough for building the mage and tower. but the guarder of sulfur mine is archmage. More than 40 archmages. I used the obsidian Gargoyle, only one troop and I made a artifact for him -44%spell damage and +2HP, it cost me 15wood 15diamond. But I lost 43 obsidian Gargoyle and defeated the archmages and got the sulfur mine. OK, the resource is enough.

I got seven level in the 1st week, but only ten level in the 2nd,14 level in the 3rd, 18 level in five weeks. Not very high, but it's enough, in the third week, I can use the phenix and others magics, such as the phantom、deflect missile、wasp and so on, though I don't know whether I can beat all the opponens, but my magic is powerful and my army too.

Yes, I don't think the MMR stratage is unbeatable, and I don't think it's a omnipotent stratage, but it's a good stratage. The academy can be a very powerful faction by using this stratage. I suggest that all the players could try this stratage. Because if you want to be a good player, you must know how to use the magics, and academy is the best faction for teaching you how to use the magics well.


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Ok, that's it.

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asandir
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Postby asandir » Nov 29 2006, 3:49

was that against AI or human opposition?
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Postby zuraffo » Nov 29 2006, 3:55

That was, I believe, a test with only a player to see how fast academy can build up on the map No Man's Land, since the screenshots only shows one hero and fighting against neutrals.

I believe this is a result from a challenge posted in AoH where people challenge them to duplicate the same result in No Man's Land.

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Postby raistlinz » Nov 29 2006, 4:00

stefan.urlus wrote:was that against AI or human opposition?


The guy is play against ai.

You know, most of our player have jobs, so we can't put a certain time on this. The player here mentioned it: he must save time to do that, but he didn't invade the ai's territory, take their town or mine to help developing speed.

So it's just a reference that MMR can be done on a poor map and the result is creditable.

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Postby asandir » Nov 29 2006, 4:30

against the AI .... well that is one thing to note, and it is good that it is usable on different maps against the AI, so well done for that at least
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Postby raistlinz » Nov 29 2006, 4:47

stefan.urlus wrote:against the AI .... well that is one thing to note, and it is good that it is usable on different maps against the AI, so well done for that at least


I know beat ai is unimpressive, but as I said, we all have job to do.

Maybe this weekend I'll beat a real player with MMR, just wait.

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Postby asandir » Nov 29 2006, 4:49

that would be good to see, but make it against a good player, good skill choices and playing like he(or she) wants to win
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Postby raistlinz » Nov 29 2006, 4:56

stefan.urlus wrote:that would be good to see, but make it against a good player, good skill choices and playing like he(or she) wants to win


That's for sure, I won't play it just to flash it away or cheat on purpose, we're serious.

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Postby 86wyp » Nov 29 2006, 5:04

stefan.urlus wrote:that would be good to see, but make it against a good player, good skill choices and playing like he(or she) wants to win


I think I have to remind you one thing, don't think we are doing any proof for you or anyone, instead this is a viability test for MMR on different maps. What you believe is your business and no one else can change it.

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Postby asandir » Nov 29 2006, 5:07

perhaps not, but you're putting it out there, so pony up or lose our interest
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Postby Banedon » Nov 29 2006, 5:13

stefan.urlus wrote:perhaps not, but you're putting it out there, so pony up or lose our interest


You're being too aggressive in my opinion stefan.urlus. It's a test meant to test the viability of MMR in different maps, nothing more. It didn't claim to be anything else. Why retort thus?

Anyway I'll perform my own test on No Man's Land. It'll take a lot of time though, since I have more exams coming up.

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Postby raistlinz » Nov 29 2006, 5:19

stefan.urlus wrote:perhaps not, but you're putting it out there, so pony up or lose our interest


Maybe first thing you should do is try it, if you will.

If not, maybe you can be more careful about your tone, being a little bit polite won't make you look smaller.

Banedon wrote:
stefan.urlus wrote:perhaps not, but you're putting it out there, so pony up or lose our interest


You're being too aggressive in my opinion stefan.urlus. It's a test meant to test the viability of MMR in different maps, nothing more. It didn't claim to be anything else. Why retort thus?

Anyway I'll perform my own test on No Man's Land. It'll take a lot of time though, since I have more exams coming up.


It's good that you can test it.

To perform MMR needs some training, you can start with Nur like our player, she is a powerful hero.

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Postby asandir » Nov 29 2006, 5:26

my point is that if you're going to extol the virtues of a strategy and then someone starts pointing out a few things about it and then you come back with

I think I have to remind you one thing, don't think we are doing any proof for you or anyone, instead this is a viability test for MMR on different maps. What you believe is your business and no one else can change it.


then what is the point? I have to disprove it?

I don't think the tone is offensive, but if you took it that way, then know that it wasn't meant as such
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Postby DaemianLucifer » Nov 29 2006, 7:15

Ok,it works on different maps.Thats good to know.But lets see if its as unbeatable as previously said,or just map dependant.

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Postby Banedon » Nov 29 2006, 7:20

stefan.urlus wrote:I don't think the tone is offensive, but if you took it that way, then know that it wasn't meant as such


But you have not come up with anything stefan.urlus. This topic was created to show that yes, it is possible for MMR to work on different maps. Do you have anything against that, other than saying it was against the AI?

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Postby asandir » Nov 29 2006, 7:25

Banedon wrote:
stefan.urlus wrote:I don't think the tone is offensive, but if you took it that way, then know that it wasn't meant as such


But you have not come up with anything stefan.urlus. This topic was created to show that yes, it is possible for MMR to work on different maps. Do you have anything against that, other than saying it was against the AI?


I didn't realise I was supposed to Banedon .... was that written somewhere and I missed it?

And I did say that it was good to see it worked against AI on different maps, but really do you need a strategy against the AI? Cause that's not very impressive as raistlin and 86 have stated .... against a real opponent is what's really at stake here.
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Postby Banedon » Nov 29 2006, 7:31

The test wasn't meant to show it works against the AI. You see, Mytical expressed some serious doubts on whether the strategy can even get started on a map with little resources. She picked the map No Man's Land. Wherupon it was tested and proved to be viable.

I think you approached this from a totally wrong perspective, that's why you misunderstood the purpose of the experiment :)

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Postby Jolly Joker » Nov 29 2006, 7:35

For Academy this is always the right strategy to go because the troops you may hire instead of the magic (if you build creature dwellings and no mage guilds) won't get you that far in beating the normally tough level 4 stacks guarding the mines on most maps. You could say that Academy won't come that far with mediocre troops and mediocre magic, but will come very far with superior magic and certain troops only.

Is it unbeatable? No. It tends to even out the longer and bigger the maps get, and it tends to even out the more difficult a map gets.

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Postby asandir » Nov 29 2006, 7:39

I think you approached this from a totally wrong perspective, that's why you misunderstood the purpose of the experiment


And I think you are missing the point .... this strat is supposed to be a killer strat yes? and it may very well be the strat to use for academy, what several of us are trying to determine is whether a) it works on maps other then one you know very well that suits the strat (Mystics Vale) and b) whether it's viable against a skilled opponent, which obviously precludes the ai

now this thread at least in part answers a) (although I know Myst has tried without having the success these guys have had) but in no way addresses part b)

so my comments seem perfectly ok to me
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Postby Mytical » Nov 29 2006, 7:44

Yes but you can't go by me. HoMM academy is like learning all over again vs other Homm Academy. So right now I am a noob with them. Now if this was suggested for say Sylvan and I couldn't accomplish it, well that would be another thing. I will be the first to admit I just love the Master Hunter surrounded by War Dancer, backed by wasp slinging Sprites to clear most neutrals (regardless the neautral or upgraded or unupgraded)..if they had access to some potent spells they would be near unstoppable (in early game). Now since Summons got a boost (fire wall vs ranged ftw) this might indeed be possible.

At least I know it can be done (even if I can't yet do it). Still I would like it used vs me as well (on a random generated map), or at least be witness to somebody who is better then me MP vs this. Even the 35 day time limit would be acceptable. Thanks for trying the map though :)
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