Finished HOF... thoughts (AND SPOILERS)

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Sir_Toejam
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Finished HOF... thoughts (AND SPOILERS)

Unread postby Sir_Toejam » 28 Nov 2006, 02:07

Ok, just finished the last campaign in HOF.

here are the the things that struck me about HOF, in no particular order:

dialogue in cutscenes is better; plot seems slightly more coherent. Perhaps Jeff(?) is improving?

Other than the first couple of maps of the 3rd campaign, most of HOF was a cakewalk.

I would have prefered the dwarven campaign to come first, so one doesn't have to wade through an enitire campaign to see what they are all about.

the map designs were pretty good; had a good flow to them, though there was a lot of reusage that seemed a bit cheap to me. The only one I would change drastically is map 3 in the 3rd campaign. UGH, too many animated dealies causing some serious framerate drops, and there were too many enemy factions. It made little sense for some of them to be there at all.

I like the new faction; rune magic is a good addition, and seems to balance itself out with the costs of using it.

the dwarven ultimate special might be even more overpowered than the elven one, and some of the regular feats (like quick mind and preparation) are also very powerful (I wouldn't change them, though).

most of the basic dwarven units are similar to academy's, in that it really takes the rune magic to make them equal or better than other faction units, like it takes minifacts to make academy troops equal or better.

I'm not sure, but AFAICT, the soldier's luck ability didn't seem to significantly affect the frequency with which the skirmisher's or priest's specials triggered (it seemed always around 33% of the time that they triggered). My bears almost always got their special, but I'm not sure if that had more to do with using charge on them all the time (distance traveled affects % to trigger), or if there was a benefit from soldier's luck.

marching around with Godzillas and burning down towns with armageddon was great fun, though it wasn't always a winning strategy, especially when the number of 'zillas were few (less than 6, say), and you were fighting a high level hero (who would typically take out a 'zilla all by himself every turn). earlier, using thanes with chain lightning was also a good crowd clearer; reminded me of the good 'ol days in homm3 using Solmyr. sure wish there was an option NOT to deploy war machines.

of the three campaigns, i actually thought Freyda's was the most interesting, then the dwarves, and like in the original H5, the last campaign kinda sucked eggs; especially the last 3 missions. I thought the first two were different enough that it kept it interesting, if a bit tedious in spots.

the last mission made little sense to me, really. why does alaric just stand there when you march right by him? why doesn't red do anyting on the map at all?

although they disabled the dimension door spell in the guilds, I still got it from one of the mage caches during the dwarven campaign, so it was easy enough to bypass all the garrisons in any mission that featured Wulfstan (like the last one). Which brings up the question... Is there a way to disable a particular spell for the whole map, and not just in the guilds?

the snow terrain is nice, but I agree with another who thought that temporary footprints would be good (maybe only last one full turn?).

Ylaya's special ability was pretty useless. so much so i actually made a mod to change it to something more useful for that campaign.

so it looks like orcs next, eh? I see there already is a thread discussing what the orcs might look like.

I'm more interested in what will happen with Rosemary's baby.

so, my overall rating for the expansion is pretty much what it seems to be getting in the major review sites... around 7.5. My main criticisms mostly falling on the last campaign, which could have been done much better both from a technical and a gameplay standpoint.

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Sikon
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Unread postby Sikon » 28 Nov 2006, 07:03

I'm more interested in what will happen with Rosemary's baby.
He becomes Sareth, the Dark Messiah. Duh. Or are you talking about another "Rosemary"?

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Unread postby bobbobinson » 28 Nov 2006, 09:32

It was a fairly enjoyable expansion pack. Agree that for the most part it was easy, typically completed missions withough restarting (apart from campaign 2 mission3 and the campaign 3 final mission). Its 'normal' difficulty is much easier than Heroes 5 default setting.

I don't really like playing with dark elves - so the final campaign didnt really grab me.

Having said that, agree with the overally level designs - there definitely doesnt seem to be so much shuttling troops from hero to hero before you can attack castles etc.

And caravans are back!
I did however find quite a few bugs- some missions i had to restart because of it.

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DaemianLucifer
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Re: Finished HOF... thoughts (AND SPOILERS)

Unread postby DaemianLucifer » 28 Nov 2006, 09:44

Sir_Toejam wrote: I'm not sure, but AFAICT, the soldier's luck ability didn't seem to significantly affect the frequency with which the skirmisher's or priest's specials triggered (it seemed always around 33% of the time that they triggered). My bears almost always got their special, but I'm not sure if that had more to do with using charge on them all the time (distance traveled affects % to trigger), or if there was a benefit from soldier's luck.
Soldiers luck doesnt affect all of the abilities,even in the original.Someone did make a list of abilities it influences ones.So my guess is that it doesnt affect all of the dwarven abilities either.
Sir_Toejam wrote: although they disabled the dimension door spell in the guilds, I still got it from one of the mage caches during the dwarven campaign, so it was easy enough to bypass all the garrisons in any mission that featured Wulfstan (like the last one). Which brings up the question... Is there a way to disable a particular spell for the whole map, and not just in the guilds?
I believe it is possible to disable a spell completelly,because some spells were simply unatainable in the original.This one probbably slipped in by mistake.
Sir_Toejam wrote: the snow terrain is nice, but I agree with another who thought that temporary footprints would be good (maybe only last one full turn?).
We already have those tracks behind heroes.Why make more?

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Sir_Toejam
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Unread postby Sir_Toejam » 28 Nov 2006, 09:44

yes, I've had problems on several maps (both in the campaigns and in the single scenarios that came with HOF) where carvans will get stuck right outside the creature building; like they didn't leave enough room around the dwelling, and it gets stuck on a rock or something.

quite irritating.

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Odish
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Unread postby Odish » 28 Nov 2006, 09:52

What is the plot of HOF campaign?
I know it's a spoiler but i really like to know.

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Sir_Toejam
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Unread postby Sir_Toejam » 28 Nov 2006, 10:04

well, Biara has fooled every idiot in the empire into thinking she is Isabel, then goes off on a rampage burning down villages, slaughtering peasants, etc.

...and you get to help her!

well, at least until you get wise to what's going on (takes a couple of missions)

then the rest of the campaigns are basically uniting the rebel factions against "Isabel" and the evil empire.

the first campaign is Freyda doing Biara's dirty work, then rebelling and joining up with duncan.

the second is all dwarves, fighting against the empire, and even their own clansmen.

the third is the dungeon faction trying to figure out what's up with their own clans, and then trying to track down Raelag, and then joining forces with the rest of the rebels to push back biara's incursions.

there's lots of little plot twists that make it more interesting, but I'll leave those to you.

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Unread postby bobbobinson » 28 Nov 2006, 11:25

(could be wrong but) i think the caravans get stuck outside your castle if you have no room for the units??

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Sir_Toejam
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Unread postby Sir_Toejam » 28 Nov 2006, 11:28

not that; they are getting stuck on objects. there's a difference.

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Odish
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Unread postby Odish » 28 Nov 2006, 12:02

Well, since my machine can't run HOMMV and the fact that i don't like playing the campaign in heroes games I thought of information a little bit more like this: http://kevinsung.wordpress.com/2006/10/ ... ll-part-6/
I don't need to be sarcastic (though it adds!) or as long as this one
if anybody got the patience for it, I'll appreciate it. alot!!

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Unread postby lotusreaver » 17 Dec 2006, 03:53

Odish wrote:...if anybody got the patience for it, I'll appreciate it. alot!!
Hey Odish. I actually just finished the snarky story summaries for HOF. You can find them at:

Haven
Fortress
Dungeon, Mixed

I made them mainly due to boredom. But I'm glad someone out there read them. Be warned. Spoilers abound. Snarky spoilers, but spoilers nonetheless.

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watcher83
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Unread postby watcher83 » 23 Dec 2006, 00:42

Raelag is searching for cultists in the free cities not among the orcs where he says there are no demon cultists, so most likely the free cities of the east with sylath as their patron dragon god is the next faction.
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Kareeah Indaga
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Unread postby Kareeah Indaga » 23 Dec 2006, 02:14

lotusreaver wrote:Hey Odish. I actually just finished the snarky story summaries for HOF. You can find them at:
Whee, thanks!

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Unread postby vicheron » 23 Dec 2006, 03:41

I didn't think the storyline for HoF was any better. I don't find the new universe to be any more "dark" or "mature" than the previous one. In fact, it's far more childish with its crappy plotlines and characters with poor motivation.

They could have done so much more with all the characters from both the original campaign and the expansion. All the characters could have been given a lot more depth.

Agrael didn't have to turn away from the dark side. He could have come to the realization that whatever power he got from the demons was only temporary and that the true power was the Demon Sovereign. He could undergo the ritual to remove the demonic taint so that he could gain power for himself.

Markal should have been way more patient. He wasn’t even good as a stereotypical necromancer bent on world domination. At least the Necromancers of Deyja were smart enough to wait until the living had already crippled each other before beginning their campaign. I thought the whole point of him having Leadership was to show that he could manipulate the living much better than other Necromancers. They really should have emphasized that. It should have actually taken him some time to reach Queen Isabel. He could have gained a reputation as a hero in the fight against the demons. He should have actually helped the Holy Griffin Empire in some way before Isabel put her trust in him. It was just completely ridiculous for Markal to just be able to just walk up to Isabel and gain her trust with a bunch of absurd promises. Ashan isn’t like the real world and Markal isn’t Joan of Arc. In a world where magic is everywhere, you’d think Isabel would want a little more than just Markal’s words.

Rolf’s motivation in HoF wasn’t expanded upon nearly as much as they should have been. There was about one cutscene of character development to establish Rolf’s feelings towards Wulfstan. They should have at least expanded upon the animosity between Rolf and Wulfstan. It’s just sad how most of the character development were done in the paragraph description of the heroes.

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Elvin
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Unread postby Elvin » 24 Dec 2006, 13:02

@lotusreaver
Your summaries are pretty good and to the point.You even cleared some things I missed when I completed HoF :)
I believe that the Sovereign kept the baby,after all it would not make sense to have Isabel give birth and let her keep it.
I'm still wondering what Laszlo was casting before he died and what power Elrath gave to Freyda.Instakill?He might as well have struck him down himself,was he bored?Or there is a pact of non-interferance?
Prince Andrei is the only heir that people would like to see on the throne so it's no surprise he is important.But why did Biara retreat?No interest?The ritual will bring some kind of apocalypse but they waited until Tolghar was dead?

One small complaint about HoF.It's too bad secondary characters as lord Caldwell,Narxes and Markal(single) did not have their original voices.It feels strange even though someone that hears them for first time may find them fitting...
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HodgePodge
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Unread postby HodgePodge » 26 Dec 2006, 03:13

Odish wrote:What is the plot of HOF campaign?
I know it's a spoiler but i really like to know.
Actually, the whole plot of HoF is to leave the unresolved conclusion as the opening of Dark Messiah of Might & Magic and more Heroes expansions.
Sikon wrote:
I'm more interested in what will happen with Rosemary's baby.
He becomes Sareth, the Dark Messiah. Duh. Or are you talking about another "Rosemary"?
Hee hee, like everyone didn't see that one coming. :rofl:

Anyhow, I did enjoy playing HoF more than the original campaigns and I'm sure navigation on the adventure map has been improved. It was a much smoother ride than the original.
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Unread postby winterfate » 26 Dec 2006, 03:24

I'm still on the third mission (the Guerillas) of the Dwarves :). How do you reach that Red Dwarven town on the map (it seems all tunnels lead to the underground prison). And what's with all the time-limit objectives? (someone at Nival appreciates urgency :tongue:).
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Elvin
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Unread postby Elvin » 26 Dec 2006, 11:00

winterfate wrote:(someone at Nival appreciates urgency :tongue:).
Haha,nice one winterfate! :-D
I never took the town as it was too tiring running around this maze of a map.I saved once and tried it but eventually gave up and went back to rushing.Let me tell you it was a h*ll of a fight! But after I killed the 'renegades' with ignited fireballs and waited,the massive stack of shieldguards came out 8| Weird.The berserkers from the freed hero are lifesavers.
I, for one, am dying to find out what colour they paint Michael's toenails.
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Odish
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Unread postby Odish » 26 Dec 2006, 11:10

lotusreaver wrote:
Odish wrote:...if anybody got the patience for it, I'll appreciate it. alot!!
Hey Odish. I actually just finished the snarky story summaries for HOF. You can find them at:

Haven
Fortress
Dungeon, Mixed

I made them mainly due to boredom. But I'm glad someone out there read them. Be warned. Spoilers abound. Snarky spoilers, but spoilers nonetheless.
Hey! just saw it now. a bit late, I know, thanx!!!!
Last edited by Odish on 26 Dec 2006, 22:11, edited 1 time in total.

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Odish
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Unread postby Odish » 26 Dec 2006, 11:33

ok! finished reading them. They're gr8! thanx a dozen!!! :D


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