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The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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Corelanis
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Postby Corelanis » Nov 20 2006, 8:33

I think it would satisfy some of the people here if we knew why nival does some of the crap it does. The snow terrian is a good example of it, its not important enough to make people not buy the standard game from lack of it or buy the expansion becuase its there. I also dont know why anyone argues certain points which are opinions, for example snow terrian should it have been in standard or expansion. For me it doesnt matter, for some it was a sin beyond reason, and others believe there was a reason it was left out. These are opinions argueing with someone over them will not change it. Also when someone starts flinging personal insults and calling people whiners it shows me therye taking it way to seriously.

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Postby Mytical » Nov 20 2006, 8:35

JJ, calm down. Take a deep breath. I for one know that you feel you are beating your head on a wall. So we don't like certain aspects of the game, as consumers that is our right. We pay for the game, we have a right to express our views on the content. This is a point that can not be denied or brushed aside. You have a right to your opinon, and we have a right to ours. Make a point and move on, don't get into the 'play it and shut up' or 'the crafters of the game are always right' mentality. You are voicing opinons (even if they are backed by the people who make the game) as much as we are.
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Postby Pitsu » Nov 20 2006, 8:36

Blackrazor wrote:This is probably the best point in the whole thread. The reason snow existed in previous Heroes iterations is because there was a town associated with it. In H5, there was no town associated with snow, so they didnt include it.


And how has sand made it into the series? Only H5 academy has sand as native terrain, no other town before that. And from the start, Heroes I, what native terrains can be talked about there?
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Postby arturchix » Nov 20 2006, 9:01

Make a point and move on, don't get into the 'play it and shut up' or 'the crafters of the game are always right' mentality. You are voicing opinons (even if they are backed by the people who make the game) as much as we are.

Mytical, that's exactly what also we are talking about - make a point that you don't like the current state of the game and move on. Nobody is forcing you to buy an incomplete H5 - wait for the complete edition come out, buy all features you want for a cheaper price and rejoice.

This discussion is pointless - no matter what arguments will be brought to light, there always will be someone opposing them with their own (BTW, nobody even tried to answer to JJ about what is the general understanding what content should be included in a Heroes game), sometimes calling opposing arguments even not arguments or the one who posts them - stupid and/or advertising spam. For sake of peace I'll do my best and try to ignore such threads in the future, including this one and advise everyone else do the same.

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Postby Corelanis » Nov 20 2006, 9:09

Required content eh ill try my hand at that.
1 The heroes themselves
2 Creatures for the heroes to lead
3 Towns to produce said creatures
4 Magical spells for the heroes
5 A map to fight on
6 A campaign of some kind
7 A user interface
8 Music
9 Dragons :devil:

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Postby Mytical » Nov 20 2006, 9:12

You are not exactly correct here. More then a few of us did post what should have been included in the original. Caravans, better storylines, more/better spells, more artifacts, and GC included some as well. Maybe they were skipped over because of all the spam, but they are there. I would have also like to have seen more variety of creatures, but that is more subjective. I tend to fade away after awhile because I get tired of answering the same argument over and over. I am sure the same is true of others. Only a few will argue a point ad nausium, but if you respond to a post of mine and I see fault in your logic or arguement I tend to respond to that. Until I get to the point that I am convinced that you are not listening or could not be swayed by any normal means. Then I fade away, usually leaving the opponit with the final word. I never flame or attack directly, stick to the point and argue my case. Sure sometimes I dont come accross the way I would like, I am not a master at debating. So I think I will try to leave this conversation with this final post, and leave it be.
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Postby DaemianLucifer » Nov 20 2006, 9:15

Humakt wrote:You sound like that's not common practice.....

3DO did that with H3 (no RMG, lame Chronicles) and H4 (no AI, lame expansions) too. I'm pretty sure NWC had little to say about the matter.


Um,the added RMG was a new feature.Chronicles werent an expansion but a separate game(kind of)made solely to enrich the story.HIV was rushed because they were sinking and had no money.

Humakt wrote:EDIT: OK, they propably weren't designed to lack but instead just hurried, propably HV is such a case too.


No,there were models for snow in original HV.Please dont go and say that they had no time or that it was to complex to put them in the original.

Blackrazor wrote:OK, i know i'm the two-post noob here, but...


We all were once.Your oppinions are still going to be respected.

Blackrazor wrote:Doesnt it seem a bit... 'sad' to get upset over not having the terrain you were expecting until the expansion pack out? I mean seriously guys, its a terrain, it affects your heroes movement in some manner, it looks different, and it makes a different sound. Its hardly something to lie face down in your pillow, crying yourself to sleep over...


I think someone said that it doesnt add new sound.They "forgot" it :devious: And what V was infuriated by is not the lack of snow in the original,but the sleazy tactics of postponing it for the expansion just so you could add something more to the list of "new" stuff it brings.

Blackrazor wrote:Other than the bugs, i'm reasonably happy with H5. The only major improvement i'd really LOVE to see by the time H6 comes around, is accurate troop number representation. Sort of like Medieval : Total War II - if you had 5 dragons, it'd show 5 dragons. If you had 2000 peasants, it'd SHOW 2000 peasants.

Imagine how cool it would be to see 20 or so giants wading into a few hundred small archers and laying waste in full lifelike 3D! <sigh>


Might be,but that wouldnt be heroes anymore.Id like to see such an M&M spinoff,but with a different title.

Humakt wrote:AB was OK but SOD was pretty shallow expansion.


Ah,but it brought in artifact combinations.

PhoenixReborn wrote:It's not as if Ubisoft is the only company ever to charge money for extra content...did you see the Oblivion horse armor? Rubbish and yet people pay for it.


Saying that something bad is ok because there are other bad things as well is not a valid argument.

Jolly Joker wrote:You sound like a bunch of junkies whose favorite dealer has been put out of commission and now have to put up with another one who stretches his stuff differently.
Don't buy it, if it sucks so much. No one is forcing you.


Mod note: No Reductio ad hitlerum, OK? GC

Jolly Joker wrote:Now look. I can understand that someone complains about the game.

But in this case someone complains about the SNOW terrain not included in the original game but in the addon...................................................


No,we complain that it was in the original but was removed so that the list of "new" things in the expansion would be slightly longer.

Gaidal Cain wrote:And how do we know that you're not being payed to come here and bash H5? Show some respect for fellow posters, even if it just amounts to ignoring them instead of flaming.


He gets my respect when he deservs it by arguing with facts and logical coments.But usually all he does is argue with attacks and ignoring facts.

And payed to bash HV :rofl:

Mytical wrote:Not that I agree with him, but it is something to respect that he sticks to his beliefs.


Yes,just like he sticks to his belief that dracogedon is a cheap tactics and should be prevented :devious:

Blackrazor wrote:This is probably the best point in the whole thread. The reason snow existed in previous Heroes iterations is because there was a town associated with it. In H5, there was no town associated with snow, so they didnt include it.


Would be valid if there was no planned editor.But the editor was planned before the expansion,so the story holds no water.

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Postby Gaidal Cain » Nov 20 2006, 13:14

DaemianLucifer wrote:
Gaidal Cain wrote:And how do we know that you're not being payed to come here and bash H5? Show some respect for fellow posters, even if it just amounts to ignoring them instead of flaming.


He gets my respect when he deservs it by arguing with facts and logical coments.But usually all he does is argue with attacks and ignoring facts.

And payed to bash HV :rofl:


Point still stands: if you can't prove that JJ is payed to argue the merits of H5 here, don't accuse him of it.

Even if you disagree with him, and think his ideas are strange, there's no need to resort to ad hominems (even if you think that he uses them). If his arguments are bad, say so, don't just brush him off with "you're just payed to say so". Respecting him does not mean you should just shut up and agree, it just means to show some common courtesy (which I know that you at least is sometimes capable of. Comparings to Hitler should be taken someplace else).
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Postby DaemianLucifer » Nov 20 2006, 13:40

Gaidal Cain wrote:Comparings to Hitler should be taken someplace else).


He started it with the jukie thing,and I said that more as a joke than a serious remark.And I dont acuse him that he is payed to like the game,but you must admit how he changes his oppinion with every patch.

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Postby Eternor » Nov 20 2006, 17:11

Elvin wrote:So if you had to guess at its nature?A dwelling perhaps?


With the HOF expansion, there was some information that slipped in. It might refer to future expansions.
    Texture with concept art and model for building "Naga temple"
    Texture for a new terrain - Tundra
    Few spells


Image

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Tundra

Spells

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Vampirism

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Summon hive

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Sorrow

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Regeneration

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Divine wrath

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Deep freeze

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Blade barrier

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Arcane crystal

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DaemianLucifer
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Postby DaemianLucifer » Nov 20 2006, 17:36

Summon hive?Like a mass wasp swarm?That would be first in HV that mass effect is a separate spell.

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Postby The Mad Dragon » Nov 20 2006, 17:36

8| If they include Naga, I will be so incredibly happy :D

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DaemianLucifer
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Postby DaemianLucifer » Nov 20 2006, 17:41

Well they did hinted a few times that nagas would come in the second expansion.

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Postby The Mad Dragon » Nov 20 2006, 17:45

:O! No WAY! Wow....I'm a happy panda.

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Eternor
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Postby Eternor » Nov 20 2006, 17:45

DaemianLucifer wrote:Like a mass wasp swarm?


Actually it is a bit different, description from game:

Summon Hive
Creates a wasp hive on the selected place of the field. A swarm of wasps from this hive will attack enemy creatures until the end of combat or until the hive is attacked and destroyed (The hive will not attack undead, elemental and mechanical units).

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Postby DaemianLucifer » Nov 20 2006, 17:56

Interesting,but not very informative.Does it do just damage,and how much?Does it attack creatures one by one or all at once?Does it attack anywhere on the map or in certain radius?

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Postby Eternor » Nov 20 2006, 18:15

The Summon Hive spell is fourth level summoning magic spell that requires 15 mana. The Spell Book prediction is: Hive health:<value=health>, initiative: <value=initiative>

The Hive casts Expert level wasp swarm.

From the DefaultStats.xdb file

Code: Select all

         <SummonHive>
            <Object href="/GameMechanics/CreatureVisual/SpellSpawned/Hive.xdb#xpointer(/CreatureVisual)"/>
            <Spell>
               <Spell>SPELL_WASP_SWARM</Spell>
               <Mastery>MASTERY_EXPERT</Mastery>
            </Spell>
            <Tier>8</Tier>
            <Power>10000</Power>
            <Initiative>
               <Item>
                  <Base>5</Base>
                  <PerPower>0.25</PerPower>
               </Item>
               <Item>
                  <Base>5</Base>
                  <PerPower>0.25</PerPower>
               </Item>
               <Item>
                  <Base>5</Base>
                  <PerPower>0.25</PerPower>
               </Item>
               <Item>
                  <Base>10</Base>
                  <PerPower>0.25</PerPower>
               </Item>
            </Initiative>
            <Health>
               <Item>
                  <Base>50</Base>
                  <PerPower>0</PerPower>
               </Item>
               <Item>
                  <Base>50</Base>
                  <PerPower>0</PerPower>
               </Item>
               <Item>
                  <Base>50</Base>
                  <PerPower>0</PerPower>
               </Item>
               <Item>
                  <Base>100</Base>
                  <PerPower>0</PerPower>
               </Item>
            </Health>
            <DefenseBase>0</DefenseBase>
            <DefensePerCasterLevel>1</DefensePerCasterLevel>
         </SummonHive>

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Postby Veldrynus » Nov 20 2006, 18:51

Gaidal Cain wrote:
Veldrynus wrote:Don't bother stefan, he's just doing what he is paid for. His messages should be ignored, just like any other commercial spam.


And how do we know that you're not being payed to come here and bash H5? Show some respect for fellow posters, even if it just amounts to ignoring them instead of flaming.


Oh, I wish somebody would pay me for this. Unfortuantely, there is no need to pay some people to bash on H5.

I respect those who deserve it.
Veldryn 15:15 And Vel found a dirty old jawbone of a walrus and put forth his hand, and took it, and in his unholy rage, he slew thirty four thousand men and children therewith.

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Postby Darkstroem » Nov 20 2006, 18:54

It was likely from the beginning that Nagas will be included as a faction. The eastern style is interesting. Many fans wanted an oriental faction. Is this a compromise by the developers to please the fans?

The new spells are very interesting, too. Why aren't they included in HoF? Perhaps they needed more time to balance them and bring them in one of the next patches?

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Postby DaemianLucifer » Nov 20 2006, 18:56

Darkstroem wrote:It was likely from the beginning that Nagas will be included as a faction. The eastern style is interesting. Many fans wanted an oriental faction.


What,vampires werent enought? :devil:


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