Would potions be a good adition to the game ?

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Would potions be a good adition to the game ?

yes
20
49%
no
21
51%
 
Total votes: 41

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Kilop
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Would potions be a good adition to the game ?

Postby Kilop » Oct 17 2006, 22:03

everything is said ...
just like in HIV, available on maps, and usable as spells ( mana pot or something else ) ... would give some penalty with init but not a full bar.
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Postby Wildbear » Oct 17 2006, 23:40

Good or bad, it only depends on how they do it.

The idea itself is good. A potion is somehow a neutral magic spell, consumed after a single use. There's nothing wrong about it.

Now talking about how it was done before (in H4 obviously), potions were not really user friendly, excepted for some of them which were... say too much. A potion needs to be easy to find, easy to recognize and it must be easy to know what it does. Also, many potions were not really "useful", I mean they usually weren't required, excepted when the game was played the diablo way (one hero to kick them all).

Since they keep refusing to let the hero really going on the battlefield from time to time, potions would lose most of their former uses. So in my opinion, and although I wouldn’t say this poll is completely useless, you should first try to clearly define what you want to request and then only try to get some support for it.

Telling “we want potions” won’t help them much, and may actually have a very bad influence on a final implementation of those elements in the game.
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Postby DaemianLucifer » Oct 18 2006, 3:43

Its a great idea,but it needs to be implemented carefully for it to work.And I can see potion of mana would be much more usefull than in HIV.Also,i can see some nifty potions that could be used on creatures(healing and resurrection),as well as some of the vials from HIV(vial of binfing liquid and vial of smoke would be much more usefull now).

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Postby asandir » Oct 18 2006, 3:48

as stated, all about the implementation, but good idea, anything to make the lack of artifacts bite less
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Postby Jolly Joker » Oct 18 2006, 6:28

No, please, NO!
Reasons: There's already the "Wand of" artifact in the game which is essentially a sixpack of potions, reloadable in a mage guild. Moreover there are sites to learn spells you may not learn in town. I don't want to open a chest and find a stupid "Potion of Slowing" or some such silly stuff. Potions were probably the aspect of H IV I hated most: kill a hero and you'd get a couple dozen potions you'd never use, cluttering your inventory and making you overlook the one potion you WOULD use.
There are enough locations on the map that give one-time effects as well.

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Postby Mytical » Oct 18 2006, 6:33

Well to an extent I have to agree with JJ here. Sometimes I would put potions on a hero and then dismiss him just to get rid of these things. Way too much, and crowds out some of the more useful artifacts. Now if they kept it sane, and had limited type of potions perhaps. Personally I would not like to see them back; however.
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Postby DaemianLucifer » Oct 18 2006, 6:33

Well that clutering couldve easilly been avoided by adding a few tabs.Yes,the inventory in HIV wasnt that good at all.

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Postby Gaidal Cain » Oct 18 2006, 7:07

Vote no. Not very many of the current spell effects would make sense as potions, and instead of making new onbes that did, I'd prefer new actual spells. If they decide to implement potions, they need to create a much better inventory system for them (making them stack would be a good start).
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Postby okrane » Oct 18 2006, 8:09

Potions were good for the heroes 4 gameplay...with heroes on thwe battlefield and all... for heroes 5... I find them useless...
there could be something to recharge your mana and all... but not a potion... I don't know...smth else

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Postby omegaweix » Oct 18 2006, 10:25

Mytical wrote: Sometimes I would put potions on a hero and then dismiss him just to get rid of these things.
I just imagined this possible scenario:
Dismiss a hero packed with useless potions, the A.I. hires him/her a few turns later and after a few weeks passed you battle this hero and get flooded with your potions again PLUS the ones the A.I. collected on it's way.

Therefore... no potions in this Heroes incarnation please!
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Postby Kalah » Oct 18 2006, 11:35

Potions! We wants *hic* potions!

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DaemianLucifer
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Postby DaemianLucifer » Oct 18 2006, 11:48

I honestly dont understand the reasoning of some people here

"Hey there was a problem with the implementation of this idea,so lets kust scrap it instead of trying to find a good solution for it."

Thats exactly why caravans were left out HV in the first place,thats exactly why elements became this watered as they are now.

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Jolly Joker
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Postby Jolly Joker » Oct 18 2006, 12:03

No. Sometimes less is better than more.
Seriously, you have to ask, what is gained with something. So what would potions gain? Except making everything that comes now as abilities, spells, artifacts, skills and map objects available randomly all around the map? In which way would they enhance the gaming experience?

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Postby DaemianLucifer » Oct 18 2006, 12:30

I never said anything against that.Its a valid argument.What would potions bring?Well,if heroes attack was nerfed a bit,they could become very usefull.I find them an excelent substitution.Plus,adding common items would give more diverse treasures you could pluck off neutrals.

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Jolly Joker
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Postby Jolly Joker » Oct 18 2006, 12:42

DaemianLucifer wrote:I never said anything against that.Its a valid argument.What would potions bring?Well,if heroes attack was nerfed a bit,they could become very usefull.I find them an excelent substitution.Plus,adding common items would give more diverse treasures you could pluck off neutrals.
Hmm. Let's see. "Adding common items would give more diverse treasures you could pluck off neutrals." That's not a valid point here, because treasure diversification is not a value in itself: the treasure must be a treasure indeed, so that would still leave the question in which way a potion would be a treasure. (You say, in effect, IF potions could be made to bring something, that would be good because it would add to make more diverse treasures.)
That leaves potions as a means to add to the personal hero attack. Let's analyse this. Useful only for heroes who'd have nothing better to do than a personal attack - and useful only in a battle where the added plus of the personal attack would make up the wasted turn for downing the potion.
However, what would that potion be other than a "mark of the wizard" and so on? Moreover, it would be something for the Might heroes, first and foremost.
Now, I concede, that this is not entirely fair: you cannot be expected to crank out a complete potion concept for the game within ten minutes or so. Still it illustrates the point that you have to find a decent use for a feature before you start asking for it.

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DaemianLucifer
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Postby DaemianLucifer » Oct 18 2006, 12:58

Potions should be mostly for might creatures,true.They could mimic some spells(haste,confusion,etc).And theyd mostly be used in the begining when heroes dont have many usefull things to do(due to lack of good abilities or due to lack of mana).Also,some of the creature specials could be mimiced as well(for example dragons breath).Also,there are situations when youd like to cast a spell that you have no access to,either because it didnt appear in your guild,or because you dont have the skill.Furthermore,they could be casted a lot quicker,so sometimes youd choose them over spells.It greatly depends on implementation,so I cannot be specific right now,but there are numerous uses for potions even when heroes arent on the BF.

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Jolly Joker
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Postby Jolly Joker » Oct 18 2006, 13:12

Well, that's exactly where I disagree. If you WOULD have access to potions in the beginning - mainly to power up your starting forces, you'd have to power up neutrals as well, otherwise it would be a cakewalk; that, however, would make it necessary to HAVE potions because otherwise you couldn't cope. And it would leave potions useless at some point of the game.
For me, your last post is a very good reasoning why potions should NOT be in the game: unneccessary and redundant. Err, potions, not your post, sorry.

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DaemianLucifer
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Postby DaemianLucifer » Oct 18 2006, 13:19

So,what youre saying is that we should remove windmills,as they are redundant?Actually,I see now why nival decided to make military outposts insead of separate dwellings.But it kills diversity,dont you think?

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Jolly Joker
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Postby Jolly Joker » Oct 18 2006, 13:53

Well, no.
In effect a windmill is nothing else than a weekly returning random resource pile. Since there is nothing like that in the game, it's okay. Note further that it's a very big object, so you won't plant it like you'd plant a resource pile. A potion is basically a portable, one-time effect, that can be used up. Since the effect of the fixed map locations is kept until the next battle you could say that a visit at any fountain is like drinking a potion.
Now, you may remember that we had a lot more of those fountains in H IV (map objects). Don't you think those are enough to cover every necessary effect? Why cluttering the inventory?

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DaemianLucifer
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Postby DaemianLucifer » Oct 18 2006, 14:00

Ah,but we dont have so many fountains now,do we?Thats exactly my point.Besides,the inventory wouldnt be cluttered if there was a special tab for potions,which would be stacked.But I do think that more objects should be a priority.


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