My Haven Strategy Guide

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Cyrox
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My Haven Strategy Guide

Unread postby Cyrox » 12 Oct 2006, 07:19

Hello all. Yesterday I was browsing through the existing Haven strategy guide on Celestial Heavens and thought it could be improved on. So I came up with my own Haven strategy guide, since I had the time yesterday and today, and I have finally finished writing it based on my experiences and observations.

Now I have no intention of putting up my Haven strategy guide or claim that mine is better, I just want to share my experience with Haven with everyone. If this guide is not helpful or is a bad guide, do feel free to post your comments here.

Positive and negative comments, all are welcome. Feedback would be appreciated too. Enjoy.








Haven Strategy Ver. 1.0

The Haven

What is the Haven? As with most fantasy games, the creators tend to include in a faction which brings us closer to home- the Humans. I've played many fantasy games of the strategy and role playing genre and frankly havent seen any games which doesnt include the humans. So, here we have them again, and set in a medieval age, as always. In my guide I will comment on the heros and the skills available to them, the units and the strategies associated with them, and other miscellaneous stuff. Im not gonna include much numbers though. For the game mechanics and stuff go look at the official strategy guide.

The Basics of Haven

First of all, the Haven specializes in Defence and Attack. When they level up, the stats that will most likely increase would be Defence and followed by Attack. As a result, the Haven hero is blessed with a high defence and attack, yet cursed with a low spellpower and knowledge. It's pretty obvious that they are more of a might hero than a magic hero. So here goes: Haven is an exclusively might faction. So don't ever play Haven as a magic faction or as a hybrid in between. It won't work. However, might does not mean no magic allowed. What I meant was you should only limit yourself to only ONE spell school, and it'd better be light magic.

Now the Haven has a unique racial ability, called Counterstrike. It raises the damage of the retaliation damage dealt out by your creatures as the skill increases in level. That's a pretty nice bonus. However that's only secondary.

The neat thing that Counterstrike does is that it allows your hero to upgrade your lower level units into high level units. For a price, that is.

And this is what you can upgrade (Note that only HUMAN units can be upgraded):

Peasants -> Archers -> Footmen -> Priests -> Cavaliers

The ultimate upgraded unit is the cavalier.

The price of upgrading units will be increasingly expensive as you move up the tiers of upgrading a unit. For example, Archers upgraded to Footmen will cost more than Peasants upgraded to Archers, and Footmen to Priests will cost more than the former.

So face it: You're not able to upgrade all the peasants into cavaliers, those ultimate soldiers. Why? Because you'll never gonna own so much money unless you own like 4 towns or more and you dont spend your money on other stuff but just on buying the haven units in your home town and upgrading them.

The most common, and the most realistic upgrades you should make, are of

Peasants -> Archers (Upgrade them ALL)
and
Priests -> Cavaliers (You can leave some priests to be upgraded into inquisitors though)

Now I will include strategies about all these and why I chose to upgrade these later.

Haven Units

Tier 1:

Peasants- The worst tier 1 unit in the game. They're never ever gonna make it across the battlefield alive because firstly, they're slow as hell. They've got low initiative, which means you have to wait for some time to be able to make them move their asses. And they've also got low speed, which makes them walk a few steps on the battlefield before stopping. Secondly, they die easily. And thirdly, even if they make it to the enemy, they deal shitty damage. These peasants are good for nothing, for the time being. Leave them garrisoned in your castle to make use of their taxpayer ability and collect extra cash.

They may be worthless now but are a gem later. And the more peasants you'll have later, the more delighted you will be. Remember the Counterstrike ability? You can upgrade those peasants up the tier. And you should most likely upgrade them to archers. Coupled with the archer's weekly growth of max about 20++, you can get up to 60++ archers in a single week, which can be upgraded into marksmen!

Conscripts- I never ever buy them. Nor even buy their building. It may be cheap but it's a waste. Because conscripts are close to good for nothings except for their Bash ability, and even so, it doesnt not make them any more valuable. Same as the peasants. They die easily, deal shitty damage, and are as slow as hell. Besides, why'd you want them for when you can upgrade the peasants into something better and you can't if you upgraded them to conscripts?

Tier 2:

Archers- Archers, along with its upgraded counterpart, are Haven's main ranged support unit. Nothing to comment about except that they have got scatter shot, which targets units in a 3 x 3 area and distributes the total damage evenly among the targets within the area.

Marksmen- These guys are really deadly. And the closer you are to them, the deadlier they become. Trust me. That's because they've got the precise shot ability, which negates defence values of the enemy at close range. And I'll cite you a first hand example. Once I had 9 archdevils which were barely close enough to hit some 300++ marksman. Alas, they couldnt, it was a bad choice I made, because I didnt know the precise shot ability was so powerful. I mean, tier 2 units? Can you name me how many tier 2 units of that number that are able to kill 9 archdevils in a single shot? And killed in a single shot they were. And I was like, WTF? Few weeks of archdevils were dead in 1 shot.

So forget all the high defence values of the Sylvan player, the ancients treants with take roots and stand your ground, once they get close to the marksmen(but not in melee range) they are DEAD. Large numbers of higher tier units are nothing if they get in range of the marksmen. And dont forget you could potentially get about 60++ marksmen a week with the strategy I mentioned! Add in Dougal = gg (good game).

Tier 3

Footmen- I'd say these guys suck at anything but staying alive. They're a tough tier 3 unit. They take half damage from ranged attacks because of their large shield ability. Coupled with high defence and hit points they're quite hard to kill. And in melee range, they can use their bash ability, which means no retaliation plus deplete all the victims' initiative! Like wow! But during a LARGE battle (with enemy heroes) with everything else in(units of all tiers), they suck. They'll never ever make it across the battlefield in time. And in large battles speed is of the essence. They're slow as hell like the peasants and their counterparts. It'll take a long time for you to be able to move their asses and even when they move, they move only a few squares. They are practically useless in late game UNLESS you have teleportation. Yep. But too bad Haven has got no teleport assault :(. Teleport them in and use divine guidance to make them act faster.

Squires- Same as footmen, but much more harder to kill, so in late game battles, they're pretty durable, and its hard to kill them in large numbers. They retain their Bash ability, and get their offensive values added. However they're still slow and when used offensively, they still suck. Unless, you have teleportation of course. So unless you have teleportation, it's best to use squires to protect archers/marksmen. The shield allies ability that they have will reduce the ranged damage suffered by nearby units by half. So they're slow, so better not move them, place them beside your archers/marksmen and protect them :).

Squires and footmen definitely are useful, provided you have teleportation. Add in Lazlo, pick defence and they're really, and I mean REALLY hard to kill in large numbers. You can get them in even greater numbers than you can get with archers if you upgrade the lower tier units up the tier. And pick Lazlo, add in teleportation, and they become a deadly menace.

Tier 4

Griffins- Decent tier 4 unit, and they get to act rather fast, too. They are good to deal with lower tier units but watch them. They die really easily. And they are low in numbers. So try not to lose any of them. They get the battle dive ability if you use Irina as your hero, so you do not feel the pressing need to upgrade them to imperial griffins.

Imperial Griffins- Upgrade griffins to imperial griffins as soon as possible. Because while griffins are average, imperial griffins are good. They get the battle dive ability. And with this ability, they are really deadly. Double damage when they battle dive successfully and in large numbers practically kill anything they dive on. Or lots even if they don't. Now there's a strategy when it comes to using battle dive. You don't dive as and when you like. If you dive before the enemy moves, high chance is that you will miss the enemy. If you finish diving just before your enemy moves, say goodbye to your imperial griffins. You need to time your dives.

Here's how. You need to look at the initiative bar. When facing a low initiative melee unit, for example the zombie or the footmen, press W (wait) until it moves, and high chance is that you can complete a battle dive between each time it moves. So you will be confirmed to strike it without missing it. How do you know when your imperial griffin is going to land? Before the griffin dives, take a look at the next imperial griffins' "picture" and the place it is on the initiative bar. This is the time when it lands. Very often you will be able to complete at least one battle dive between each time a low initiative melee unit moves. Now TRY not to land JUST before the turn the enemy stack moves, because you never know where your griffins are going to land. If they land next to the enemy stack, say goodbye to some of them. If you have to do that though, pray :), and hope that they land somewhere far away. Try to land them some turns before the enemy moves, so that you can call up support from your other units/hero, or better yet: your imperial griffins have a third turn before the enemy moves(which is possible since they have so high initiative), or use haste or divine guidance if their turn happens to come just after the enemy stack moves to get them out of the dangerous zone. So the trick with slow melee units is: press W if you have only one imperial griffin "picture" before the enemy unit moves, dive when you have 2 or more imperial griffin turns between each time the enemy unit moves.

When facing ranged units, you can always be sure to hit them, unless they move away, which smart human players will do when they see your imperial griffins battle dive, but the dumb computer will not. However, you still need to time your dives, same with slow melee units, try not to land just before the enemy units act. Imagine the horror, landing next to master hunters just before they act(I got that before). But the difference is you do not to need wait to battle dive them, because most probably they wouldnt move. So, the trick with ranged units is to dive BEFORE they act, and land AFTER they act.(look at the initiative bar!) Rinse and repeat. Unless they are split into many stacks, you won't suffer a single casualty.

With fast melee units, like grim raiders, dont think of battle diving them, because you wont ever hit them, unless they're too busy messing up your archers at one corner. Or if you're very sure they're gonna mess up your archers at that corner, dive at that corner. Usually, with fast melee units, like war dancers, just hit them directly when the chance permits.

Anyway, in general, as mentioned before: if your griffins lands just before an enemy melee unit acts, dont dive at all. Or take a chance. Makes no difference when it comes to ranged units. Best is to leave some turns left to enemy movement, or when the imperial griffin gets to act again. Yes I know Im naggy.

Btw, use battle dives in siege battles with caution when you're attacking. You're taking a chance. Because griffins are not very smart and sometimes they decide to land just on the trap area. I try not to battle dive during sieges(if Im the one attacking, if you're defending its okay) and even if I do, I pray and close my eyes :). Trust me, you will be very upset when they land on the traps (which happened to me sometimes).

Tier 5

Priests- Decent unit, just an average tier 5 unit with no abilities. Used for decent ranged support.

Inquisitors- Buffed priests with much higher hp, can be used for decent ranged support, but that's not what they're good for. They come with a series of buffs that make your troops happy. And your hero too. They spend their own mana to buff up your units with Haste, Endurance and Divine Strength. Good support unit.

Tier 6

Cavaliers- The 2nd best Haven unit, the best being the Paladins :). They're fast, they deal high damage, even higher with jousting. Jousting is like one of the best abilities in the whole game. Try to mantain as far a distance from the enemy but within charging range to achieve highest damage effect. Or take the longest route even if you're near. They own anyone if you have a decent number of them.

Paladins- The best Haven unit. In my opinion. They're faster, deal higher damage, and get a boost to hp and defence as well! In addition, they have got lay hands, which deal allied units, but the best thing lay hands does is that it can cure curses(but not poison), and can do so unlimitedly. Pick Klaus, and with jousting, paladins as well as cavaliers. deal a shit load of damage. Cavaliers and paladins are pure ownage. Not much description needed.

Tier 7

Angels- Good unit, like all tier 7s. Definitely get them IF you can afford it. If you cant, it doesnt matter.

Archangels- Angels buffed up, with wonderful stats, and resurrection which can be used once per battle. Buy them if you can afford them. It doesnt matter if you dont, too. They're not game breaking units and their resurrection can only be used once anyway. The only MUST BUY tier 7 unit for me is the archdevil, which has got summon pit lords. When you have large number of archdevils, they summon alot of pit lords from corpses, and those pit lords can cast spells and dish out a whole load of melee damage. Not related, but oh well.

Haven Heros

The Cream of the Crop

Dougal- The best Haven hero in my opinion. Marksmen can be mass produced as mentioned earlier and you can get heaps of them. Dougal adds on to the attack and defence of these marksmen. And as I've mentioned earlier, marksmen are really deadly in close range. Dougal makes them even more deadly. Goodbye weeks of mighty tier 7s and 6s. Combine teleportation with marksmen for some deadly surprise.

Klaus- Adds on damage to the best Haven troops, the cavaliers and the paladins. They deal higher damage than normal with Klaus, and even though Klaus has been nerfed in the latest patch, he's still a force to be reckoned with.

The Good

Irina- Irina is a good early game hero, because you do not need to upgrade your griffins to imperial griffins as early to get the battle dive ability. Even in late game, she also scales up the griffins/imperial griffins' power as she levels up, so she's definitely a good hero. She'd make battle dive a much more deadlier ability.

Lazlo- Lazlo is a middle to late game hero, because footmen/squires wont see much action unless you combine teleportation and/or divine guidance. Add in those, and Lazlo and his footmen/squires would be a powerful combination.

The Ordinary

Maeve- Maeve improves the Haste spell, which is good, but considering the low spellpower of the Haven, her haste spells wont last long. There is a limit to how many times she can recast it, too.

Rutger- Rutger can travel faster as he levels up, and at a high level can travel alot more than any other hero, even those with logistics and even faster than the Inferno hero Grok. Rutger can be put to good use as a rusher.

The Mediocre

Vittorio- 2nd worst Haven hero. He improves the ballista's damage. Cool, but war machines have a limited use, and in middle game anyone could easily destroy that ballista in a shot.

Ellaine- The worst Haven hero (if you exclue Isabel, that is). And better yet, she comes with a bunch of motley crew. She makes the worst unit in the game better, but still doesnt make it any better. +1 gold per peasant per day? No thanks. At late game you'd never have to worry about money. Even in early game, what's an extra +1 extra gold per peasant?

and the skills they should take..

"MUST TAKE" SKILLS

Attack- This skill is a MUST take. It increases your melee damage by 15% on expert level. Plus, Haven has got the best sub skill in Attack that you should definitely take- Retribution. It raises damage by 5% for every morale point. At default morale with only haven troops, your units would have gotten +10% damage provided they were not affected by enemy spells or items that decrease morale. Add in the effects of expert leadership, you would get a whooping +5 morale(the max u can get), which equates to +25% damage, which means a total of +40% damage for melee units and a +25% damage for ranged units.

You should also take Tactics as a sub skill in the Attack skill branch, because it will allow your cavaliers/paladins to reach the enemy lines on their very first turn, instead of taking 2 turns to reach the enemy lines. Tactics is also useful for units who are slow in getting to enemy lines, like footmen/squires, though teleportation would do better.

Lastly you should take Archery, because of the fact that you could potentially get 60++ archers/marksmen per week, and more if you have got more than 1 Haven towns. They get a +20% increase to their ranged damage, add in +25% from retribution and you get a whooping +45% to ranged damage. Cool huh?

Forget Power of Speed and Battle Frenzy. Power of Speed would be useful because of Haven heros' low mana, but it requires so many other skills in a certain order to be able to get it. And in the end, you might not even get it. Battle Frenzy is for loads of low level troops, which, Haven...well..has, but not in the range of the necronmancer's skeleton archers, which number in the thousands. Consider 60++ archers a week, and you can get maybe 200++ to 300 archers a month, that would mean an extra 200++ to 300 damage a month if you take battle frenzy. I'd take the other sub skills in my opinion, but the call is yours.

Leadership- Another of the MUST take skill. Again, Haven has got the best sub skills in Leadership. First up, Divine Guidance. Divine Guidance is the closest skill that can substitute for Teleport Assault. Divine Guidance sacrifices the hero's turn for allowing another unit's turn to come faster. This would work ideally with slow units like footmen/squires, but any other units would do too, if you want them to act earlier than an enemy unit to wreck havoc before they do!

Divine Guidance also unlocks another good sub skill of Leadership, Aura of Swiftness, which adds +1 speed to all your units. What does that mean? That means that each of your units can move one more "square" on the battlefield. Ideal for slow units like footmen/squires.

The last leadership sub skill you should take is diplomacy. Never underestimate the power of diplomacy. Especially in the late game when you have a huge army and lots of money, you can practically get lots of neutral units to join you for free. This skill is especially useful for getting lots of low spawning units or high level units. 50 griffins joining you or 26 cavaliers joining you anyone? (who might be your enemy instead if you didnt have this skill) That's a few WEEKS worth of population for those creatures! Rejoice when it comes to the week of cavaliers :).

Recruitment and Estates are useless. At least for the main hero. Recruitment is for heros who sit in the castle all day and Estate contributes a measly 250 gold each day, 1750 a week. That means 43.75% of the income a capitol can provide you with EACH DAY. Useless.

"CHOOSE ACCORDING TO YOUR FANCY" SKILLS

Luck- Double damage should never be shunned. I always pick this skill, but some people don't, so the call is yours. Take Resourcefulness, Soldiers' Luck and Magic Resistance if you do take this skill. Resourcefulness for getting more exp outta those treasure chests, Soldiers' Luck for making your squires' bash ability work more often, and Magic Resistance for a chance for your units to resist a magic spell. Skip Tears of Asha vision because it is utterly useless, while Spoils of War requires Tears of Asha, and even if it doesnt, it means you must forgo either Soldiers' Luck or Magic Resistance.

Defence- Defence is a very useful skill. But its not a must take depending on one's style of play. It basically reduces up to 30% of damage on Expert level. Consider enemy stack dealing 2000 damage, you get a 600 damage reduction! Vitality, Protection and Evasion should be taken as its sub skills. Vitality is good for lots of archers/marksmen, footmen/squires. Protection is good for dealing with those magic factions like Dungeon, and Evasion is good for reducing ranged damage, which is pretty much universal and commonly encountered. Forget Stand Your Ground and Last Stand. If you're playing defend, I think thats BAD. Because in a battle you're supposed to strike first and fast, not defend. So Stand Your Ground is redundant. Last Stand, well, I think its pretty pathetic if you are forced to make use of this skill. You should probably evaluate your playing style and start playing from Easy difficulty.

Logistics- Logistics is a very good skill, but not a must, depending on player styles. It makes your hero move ALOT faster, and on maps with lots of rough terrain, you'd be glad to take this skill, and even if its all grassland, you'd be very happy cause you'll be travelling so much more than your opponent. Definitely take Pathfinding, the best 2nd sub skill of the Logistics skill, and take Death March and Familiar ground. Sub skills that make your units move faster should never be shunned in lieu of weaker sub skills like Scouting and Navigation.

Enlightenment- Enlightenment is a good skill for Haven, because unlike some other factions, it adds directly to defense and attack of the hero, which greatly enhances the attack and defence of your troops. At level 20, this can mean up to a +10 boost distributed between yuor Attack and Defence stats. Also, the sub skills of Enlightenment tend to boost the Haven's weak magic, like Graduate and Wizard's Reward, so take Scholar in order to get them. Forget Arcane Intuition, please. You can skip Wizard's Reward in lieu of Intelligence if you wish to boost your small mana capacity.

Light Magic- You should definitely choose this or dark magic. I would rather choose this than dark magic, but that's me. Light magic is less spellpower dependent than dark magic, the only spell dependent on it is resurrection, but even without much spellpower, you can still resurrect a fair amount of units. I'd choose light magic because of teleportation (to teleport your troops, like the slow moving footmen/squires), resurrection, and all the bless spells. If you want, you can take Guardian angel. Though, like I said before, it's pretty pathetic if you get reduced to that state, but at least this sub skill is much better than Last Stand. What this skill does is that it resurrects some of your most powerful stack if your whole army dies, unlike Last Stand, which allows only ONE unit to remain alive with ONE hit point. Skip refined mana to get 2 of the mass spells but if you want your inquisitors to bless more, by all means, the choice is yours.

Dark Magic- Dark magic is good for cursing the enemy, but more spellpower dependent, especially its higher level spells like puppet master. Frenzy is a good spell to make your enemy attack his own troops, though with high spellpower you could cast frenzy on your own troops to increase their damage significantly. Take either this or light magic but not both, please. You wont have enough mana to cast all the spells there. Fallen Knight compensates for the knight's low spellpower which should be taken, though you'll get -1 to morale. Skip Master of Pain and take Fallen Knight. Weakening Strike is not worth it in my opinion. What Weakening Strike does is to cast Weakness on your enemy whenever your knight performs a retaliation strike. Hello? Why dont you just cast Mass Weakness?

and the skills to avoid..

Summoning magic, Destructive magic and Sorcery- These should all be avoided completely. As I've mentioned earlier in this guide, Haven is a might faction and cannot be played as a magic faction unlike, for example, Dungeon, which can be played as both might and a magic faction or a hybrid. Summoning magic and Destructive magic are spellpower dependent and Haven has low spellpower, and they have high mana requirements too. Sorcery is useless because Haven heros aren't gonna use magic much.

War Machines- Why avoid war machines? Because war machines are not particularly useful. They're not indispensable. Even during sieges. Take expert light magic and you can have teleportation to take your units over walls without even breaking down the walls. And shall I add that ballista damage is not like WOW even with triple ballista and expert war machines? Plus one shot from any unit stack/hero in the late game would destroy any war machine instanly. You're better off taking other skills to support your other troops.

How to play Haven

I always play Heroic so this is my experience in playing Haven on Heroic.

First week:

The first week is the most crucial part. Now, at heroic level, your resources are limited at first so you cant upgrade everything. Build all the base buildings first, like the archers tower but dont buy the marksmen tower yet. Build only base unit buildings on the first week and money producing buildings but nothing else. Except a blacksmith so you can build the footmen building. By first week, I always got the peasants, archers, footmen and griffins base building. Don't build mage guild YET.

In the first week, usually secure your mines, but avoid those with sprites. Tackling low level ranged units is ok, use footmen only and only footmen. Any ranged unit higher than tier 2 on first week and it's suicide. That goes the same for any melee unit above tier 2 or even upgraded tier 2 units like horned overseers. Dont tackle them yet. You'll get to kill them soon on the 2nd week.

Second week:

Second week, you should upgrade your money producing buildings up the tier. 2nd week is the week where you can upgrade some of your base buildings. And I mean SOME, not ALL. Upgrade those which are crucial, like the griffins building, because imperial griffins get battle dive and that'd help you clear the more difficult upgraded tier 2 melee units and maybe some tier 3. And maybe upgrade either the footmen building, to get squires to better deal with ranged units, or get the marksmen building.

On week two, you can start to deal with those upgraded tier 2 units like horned overseers or war dancers, just be careful and use your imperial griffins tactfully. You can also deal with tier 3 melee units or even some tier 4 once you got imperial griffins and one other upgraded unit, like marksmen. Avoid hunters or master hunters for the time being though, because even if you can kill them alot of your army would be gone. And those units which cast magic too(but by now you should kill the sprites easily)

Third week:

Third week, you should get the cavaliers building, if not gotten in the 2nd week already. 3rd week is a realistic time to get those cavaliers. And upgrade to capitol if you havent in the 2nd week. And don't worry, you're not falling behind. SKIP the mage guild and the priests building, because cavaliers are more important. Once you get cavaliers, you can handle units all the way up to tier 6 and even a small number of tier 7 units. As you get more and more cavaliers, you should have a easy time. Building mage guilds should be done after getting cavaliers or in week 4 because your hero wont have that much mana at that time anyway.

Kill everything but AVOID tier 7 units in larger numbers than 5, and those magic users like druids until you get a larger army of cavaliers and everything else.

And the rest of the game is up to you. My guide to the first crucial 3 weeks is to set you going.

And that's all, folks. My guide ends here.

BoardGuest808888
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Unread postby BoardGuest808888 » 12 Oct 2006, 13:13

Hmm, this is roughly the same with that already existed Haven guide. To make it has a real 'punch', may I suggest some things ?

1. Understand that strategy is how to utilize your resource to achieve your goal, not vice versa. If you start with belittling your own assets, surely you must rethink your strategy and get into more depth of it instead of imagining what should happen.

Ex : Peasant & footmen being crap.
I've read this many times before. If you'd make a real difference, then show how they (somehow) can be utilized so much as to win the day. Not just repeating the 'common sense'.

2. I believe there's no such thing as bad assortments of skills, but there's of course assortments of skills badly played. If you want to make a better strategy, show how a Knight leading Haven army should win with every skills possible, rather than deciding this/that is bad or not.

Ex : Sorcery & Summoning being crap.
That almost everyone understand. But you can improve the strategy by showing how they're not being crap. Now, if your Knight happen to has Sorcery as pre-requisite to win the game (say, as quest-driven), would you immediately deem the map unplayable ?

3. Give a different point of view, a varied strategy rather just one.
It seems you like to play Haven with Griffins and Cavalry a lots. Yet don't forget to give merit to other kinds of strategies that might works for different kinds of game.

Ex : I usually love to play with overwhelming amount of Archers, Squires, and Priests, and rather than charging full force, it works well for me to just wait and shoot.

I also know another friend of mine that usually play with a lot of magics, Angels, and swarms of Squires.

4. Take comparison.
If you believe you can kill just about anything upto tier 6 or even 7 in the 3rd week (don't know how much cavalier you can muster by then, might be 30 - 40 something I think), then what about everyother towns' strategy ? What amount of creatures they'd get by then ? How large their armies ? How's your chance against anyone, two, or even three of them ? How's about your own casualties ? Do you really want to charge a group of Paladins (level 6) in the 3rd week regardless of the cost ?

5. What'd be the alternatives ? What'd be the escape plan ? Plan B ?
War machines are indispensable ? What if you happen not to get Teleport ? Would you just wait for the wall to get moldy and wear itself over ages ? What if you happen not to get Tactic ? What happen if everything goes wrong ? How can your Knight can still survive the day ?

Hope those would help.

Best regards B-)

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Sir_Toejam
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Unread postby Sir_Toejam » 12 Oct 2006, 13:58

don't forget that squires give ranged damage resistance to adjacent stacks too!

either summoning (just basic) or insight from sorcery can give you the phantom spell, and then you can double up on those marksmen you think are so uber.

obviously, there is little reason to bother unless you find the spell, but still, not completely worthless.
Last edited by Sir_Toejam on 15 Oct 2006, 04:23, edited 1 time in total.

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Elvin
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Re: My Haven Strategy Guide

Unread postby Elvin » 12 Oct 2006, 14:50

A few things:

About training you forgot to add that a week's peasants to archers cost in training is almost equal to a week's archers to footmen.Viable and effective with Laszlo even though I'd go for peasant training.Such a massive stack adds to the chance of shield bash triggering so it's best to use with def->vitality and luck->soldier's luck.

Haste spells won't last long.So?It takes 1-2 rounds to get the job done.

Yes Rutger can outrun Grok but at lvl 23.Really great,you will catch up real fast.

Ballista destroyed in 1 shot?In 1.3 you get like 1100 hp with exp warmachines.Add the hero's defence too.But warmachines is for earlygame and creeping not for endfights.In an endfight if your enemy targets it he has wasted an attack on your creatures.Plus if you plan on taking it you might as well start with Vittorio.Damage is decent esp with a luck boost.

Elaine the worst?She's not supposed to be a main hero and she excells at what she does by getting recruitment easily and repaying her peasants at a double rate.

Pathetic to use guardian angel?You can kill off main heroes with that in one surprise attack.

Weakening strike is not that good but because it occupies the master of mind slot and requires a lot to get.Even so mass weakness costs mana that a knight lacks and retaliation strike does it for free as it is able to hit all melee creatures in 1 round.That's almost equivalent to another turn for your hero.Almost.
I, for one, am dying to find out what colour they paint Michael's toenails.
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Caradoc
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Unread postby Caradoc » 12 Oct 2006, 19:56

All very good advice and about the same as the way I play.

I am not much of a fan of Griffins, even Royals, since they take so much damage. The Dive has to be timed even more carefully than you say, since it can be disasterous for them to come down next to a strong attacker. Even Castle seiges need some care or else they fall into the moat!

Of course if you have plenty of gold, you can afford everything. But when my resources are limited, I concentrate of Marksmen and Cavaliers with maybe a few Squires to shield the Marksmen.

I push hard on Light Magic to get Teleport and Resurrection. A hero's direct attack is almost useless. I'm more interested in Attack and Luck than in Defense.

Finally, unless I decide to try for the Ultimate, I ignore Counterstrike on my main hero. Leave that to a castle sitter (like Elaine) who will pump out Archers.
Before you criticize someone, first walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you'll be a mile away. And you'll have their shoes.

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atma6
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Unread postby atma6 » 13 Oct 2006, 01:51

Also you should go over the usefullness of counterstrike skills such as retaliation strike, and benediction.

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Unread postby Kilop » 13 Oct 2006, 02:42

... and divine guidance.
And btw, it would be nice to give some strategy against other towns ( like why getting light against necro is a must ...
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Cyrox
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Unread postby Cyrox » 13 Oct 2006, 16:10

Thank u for all ur feedback! In case some of u guys havent noticed, some of the pointers u've made are actually included in my guide, if u read every little bit of detail. Guess it wasnt that well structured.

But anyway, yea, it is missing a few stuff.

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Unread postby Cabreva » 13 Oct 2006, 19:24

I think the problem with these haven strategy guides is that writters are not showing the things as "choices for situations". We already know how heaven works, then these units, skills and heroes informations or particular opinion shouldn't be in that guide.

The best should focus on a particular type of strategy and explain how to made your choices using this strat. Well, if i had time i would like to show my "Victorio's strategy for little maps" or "Rutger's strategy in maps with a lot of free resources". Maybe another strategies are better, but im showing my strat and how to use it with success.

Anyway, i think that cyrox's guide helps a lot and shows the cyrox'strat. We should see cyrox's games to see how good his strat is.

Sorry my poor english.

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Unread postby BoardGuest808888 » 14 Oct 2006, 13:39

You're right. A particularly specialized strategy, or even map-based strategy is more than welcome.

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Unread postby Mightor Magic » 15 Oct 2006, 02:19

I don't agree with your hero grading.

Maeve's Haste is particularly nasty when combined with Leadership and double stacks of griffins {better than battledive}. She also starts off with the best Haven starting skills, plain Attack and Leadership. Excells at large maps where she can get a little knowledge and spellpower {Look, spell duration is dependent on her turns, not on the 60% hasted Griffins that now have 22 iniative so it doesn't take much spell power to get a good attack chain going}. Enlightenment is a good choice but Light magic, master of wrath is essential.

Vittorio shines when you take Luck instead of Leadership and get Triple Ballista and Catapult. A 900 hp Ballista that does 600 damage is merely a bonus when you look at what it does to his catapult. A good hero for small to medium maps.

Ellaine, well, I like gold and she gets all the peasants to earn the gold to upgrade those peasants into marksmen. What's one extra gold per peasant? She starts at 200 gold per day and increases it 50 to 100 gold per day every week. Best way to use peasants. Recruitment is good as well. Poor main Hero.

Irina: I like Griffins but I don't like Battledive. Keeping them grounded until I can cast Endurance or Haste on them kind of defeats the purpose of the Battledive ability. Besides, they always seem to land in the damn moat during castle seiges. Middling but good for small maps against necromancers.

Laszlo: Taking Soldier's Luck over Leadership may be a good idea, especially if you plan on teleporting them to fight ranged units. I usually use two stacks, one large stack to attack and a smaller one to protect my ranged units. My favorite Haven Hero to go Dark Magic. I'm not sure about the Defense skill though.

Klaus: I play Haven but I don't use him. Maybe I'd pick him if Haven could get Teleport Assault since he only makes their charge stronger. I've fought him on MP maps and it's always the same; I lose a stack to the first charge and then I kill the Paladins before they attack again. What's the point, Retaliation strike? I don't know.

Rutget: The true small map hero, he makes a great second hero/scout on large maps.

Dougal: He's good but I would recommend keeping a stack of Archers to go along with the Marksmen, just to mop up any casters in the enemy army with their area attack. He works with either Luck or Leadership so try to find out what type the nearest artifacts are so you can get a bit of both. He'll shine in any map but he'll crush everything in the extra large ones.

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Unread postby atma6 » 15 Oct 2006, 21:34

I'm a huge fan of Vitorio. I find his ballista is a huge advantage, as you can flag more mines and beat enemy heroes easier. A triple shot ballista doing 600 damage a pop is pretty good late game.

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Unread postby Cabreva » 16 Oct 2006, 02:59

a triple balista with luck and atack, at expert level, kill at least 50 hunters in one shot when ur victorio is lvl 15.
I like to have logistics on vict. and do terrorism on enemy cities :P.

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Cyrox
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Unread postby Cyrox » 16 Oct 2006, 03:09

Cabreva wrote:a triple balista with luck and atack, at expert level, kill at least 50 hunters in one shot when ur victorio is lvl 15.
I like to have logistics on vict. and do terrorism on enemy cities :P.
Hmmm really? Im gonna go try it out! Anyway good discussion here, maybe I really undervalued Vittorio. See, I dont really use him much, so, Im gonna try him as my main hero to see how powerful he is.

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Unread postby Zrana » 16 Oct 2006, 03:54

Also, dont forget griffins unlimited retaliations; have 2 stacks (one fore fighting + battle dive) and put another in front of your marksmen beside your squires in the corner - like:

GG
GG
MS on the grid (squires on the outside edge ofc) and with endurance on the griffins and the large shield from the squires they guarantee no-one gets through :)


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