Dying community??

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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Elvin
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Postby Elvin » Oct 22 2006, 12:18

Yes I admit that it's not as easy to find exactly what you are looking for.The good ideas,news,suggestions are in between this chaos ;) and you'll have to search for them.Still as Mytical said there are people that will be around to notice what has been posted and give you a piece of their mind.Still I don't think things are so bad,actually I enjoy some of the off-topic conversations and comments but you can always skip them to check the ones you consider interesting.Post away!
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Postby Angelspit » Oct 22 2006, 12:44

Smoking_Squirrel wrote:Oh, and a few of the older members, such
as Quirkish Dragon, might remember me
as "Gageteer" from the (closed after H4)
"Statemen's Quill" forum.

Oh, I remember you too. Where have you been?

And the Quillis still open, despite the lack of activity at times.

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Postby Gaidal Cain » Oct 22 2006, 17:09

Angelspit wrote:
Smoking_Squirrel wrote:Oh, and a few of the older members, such
as Quirkish Dragon, might remember me
as "Gageteer" from the (closed after H4)
"Statemen's Quill" forum.

Oh, I remember you too. Where have you been?


Me too :) Did you ever catch Kyrre?

(PS: this is a message board, so it's rather easy to mark up the stuff you're quoting. Just hit "quote" instead of "reply" and I'm sure you'll figure out the rest.)
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Postby Smoking_Squirrel » Oct 22 2006, 17:29

I can tell you what has doomed HoMM-5 in one word: 3-D.


HoMM remains strict turn-based. This sets it apart from nearly every other game. So too did 2-D graphics.

We generally think of only good things about 3-D. but what about blurred images? Over-taxed processors? And over-taxing the brains of a game player?

I've always felt that HoMM was played by a special demographic. Not stupid per se, but definitley reflex-challenged (both mental and physical - and I would fit into both categories). We HoMM players do not have fun in real-time games, and we don't want to be reminded of them while we play something else!!

There's also HoMM-4. A game which was never really completed (no AI). Yet what we saw had the best graphics to date in HoMM, plus the most robust game features. Ubi could have finished the incomplete areas, adjusted some game mechanics, then sold it as a new product. It may sound sleezy, but it would have been a great game.

Lets not forget that the system requirements for HoMM-4 were surprisingly stiff. Switching to 3-D undoubtably required a lot of good stuff be omitted.. not that a budget prioritizing 3D would allow much.

So there you have it. That's why HoMM-5 isnt regaining HoMM's lost glory. I never bought H-5 'cause as soon as I saw 3-D, I knew it was doomed. I won't play H4 because I'm sick of bludgeoning a helpless AI. I wont go back to HoMM-3 because H4 has so many improvements. Aaaaaaauugh!
.
(PS - Nice to see you again Angelspit. I've missed the HoMM community. By the way, will I get booted if I talk all the time without actually playing the game?? hehe)

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Postby Smoking_Squirrel » Oct 22 2006, 17:34

Oh, and one more thing.
I know that H3's fortress is a really weak town,
and gnolls are by far the worst level-1 unit...
but I'd really like it if I could select "Drakon"
for my avatar!

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Postby Smoking_Squirrel » Oct 22 2006, 17:57

Me too :) Did you ever catch Kyrre?

(PS: this is a message board, so it's rather easy to mark up the stuff you're quoting. Just hit "quote" instead of "reply" and I'm sure you'll figure out the rest.)
[/quote]

Oh, thanks a lot for the "quote" tip. And its good to see you again, too.

The name Kyrre brings back bittersweet memories. If you remember, I had quoted messages from nearly 100 people on Quill as to whether they would spare Kyrre. Oh, that would have been a good map... to remember our old members by, if nothing else.

Then H4 came out. A new elf took the name "Kyrre". Map permanently derailed !

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Postby Elvin » Oct 22 2006, 18:08

3d has nothing to do with it and it's pretty successful.There where and are turn based games but heroes was distinctly different and one of the most enjoyable even without shiny graphics.Now while it looks better some people needed to upgrade their computer to play it and some still can't run it properly.That's the problem.I love what I see but more effort could be put into correcting the game.
If you feel mentally challenged,too bad for you.Considering you believe H5's alleged doom lies in the graphics shows you have no idea what you are talking about.I know of many people that enjoy rts and action games,myself included and still like to play heroes just because it is different and strangely addictive :D You can't assume homm fans are like you.Not without having met a number of them anyway but you said that you 'feel'.
Yes H4 could have been great with proper implementation of features but only for those that liked it.And the majority blindly preferred H3 for some reason.Innovation can have its bad points too as some features were despised while at the same time others were praised.Nival couldn't go wrong by at least initially going H3 and you can't say that all H4 innovations were dumped.I've come across a number of them and some are on their way.Remember caravans?
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Postby PhoenixReborn » Oct 22 2006, 18:12

Smoking_Squirrel wrote:I can tell you what has doomed HoMM-5 in one word: 3-D.



HoMM remains strict turn-based. This sets it apart from nearly every other game. So too did 2-D graphics.

The game still is turn based. Try telling Ubisoft that they could attract new sales (not just people who know homm) with a 2-d graphics game in 2006. I'm not placing a value judgement I'm just saying what is.

I've always felt that HoMM was played by a special demographic. Not stupid per se, but definitley reflex-challenged (both mental and physical - and I would fit into both categories). We HoMM players do not have fun in real-time games, and we don't want to be reminded of them while we play something else!!

I'm not reminded of one when I play the turn based heroes V so I don't know what you mean here. Anyone can play Homm not just reflex challenged people.

There's also HoMM-4. A game which was never really completed (no AI). Yet what we saw had the best graphics to date in HoMM, plus the most robust game features.

Homm 2 had the best graphics. My opinion.

Lets not forget that the system requirements for HoMM-4 were surprisingly stiff. Switching to 3-D undoubtably required a lot of good stuff be omitted.. not that a budget prioritizing 3D would allow much.

Really? Like what. What did they omit?

So there you have it. That's why HoMM-5 isnt regaining HoMM's lost glory. I never bought H-5 'cause as soon as I saw 3-D, I knew it was doomed. I won't play H4 because I'm sick of bludgeoning a helpless AI. I wont go back to HoMM-3 because H4 has so many improvements. Aaaaaaauugh!

So you judge the game without playing it, nice.
.
(PS - Nice to see you again Angelspit. I've missed the HoMM community. By the way, will I get booted if I talk all the time without actually playing the game?? hehe)

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Postby ThunderTitan » Oct 22 2006, 20:02

PhoenixReborn wrote:Homm 2 had the best graphics. My opinion.


No see, it had the best art style. H4 had the best graphic engine. I hate H5's art style, and the engine is so-so even for a 3D one.


Smoking_Squirrel wrote: By the way, will I get booted if I talk all the time without actually playing the game?? (hehe)


Me and DL seem to be doing just fine. :devil:
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Postby chaosgorgon » Oct 22 2006, 21:14

i think that some guys are exagerating about the "community is dying" stuff, lets see how the things turn with the expansion (with sim turns and RMG)

i found disliking one comment about that "better to be few than a bunch of ignorant newbies" concept , ohh well was a ton posts ago, so i dont remember who posted such stupidity, but all communyties always needs new blood (yeah im a vampire...), discussions between the same guys turns boring..

the problem are the maps and the editor, again i hope that with the expansion will be released a more "friendly" editor, 3D dont have anything to do here, actually 3D stuff makes more friendly and easier the modding

the game is pretty moddable, even the ppl that say the H5 dont have a bit of H4 cant deny that with this H5 you can make a game that use H4-3 features -im sure that a heroe in the battlefield can be done in H5-, i hope that the equi Team move on H5. because it have more posibilities, i thought about some balance /gameplay changes and to turn the Haven into the Knights faction of H2, but really i lost the interest, even the famous (or ingfamous) Forge could return

BTW i hate the way how these stupid dwarfs taken the name of my beloved faction (fortress), they should be renamed as forge...but hey thats OT
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Postby ThunderTitan » Oct 22 2006, 21:22

chaosgorgon wrote:i found disliking one comment about that "better to be few than a bunch of ignorant newbies" concept , ohh well was a ton posts ago, so i dont remember who posted such stupidity, but all communyties always needs new blood (yeah im a vampire...), discussions between the same guys turns boring..


:devil:


chaosgorgon wrote:BTW i hate the way how these stupid dwarfs taken the name of my beloved faction (fortress), they should be renamed as forge...but hey thats OT


Forge = BAD. Just like H4 = BAD. It's their most sacred dev command. :devious:
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Postby Smoking_Squirrel » Oct 22 2006, 21:24

Smoking_Squirrel wrote:Lets not forget that the system requirements for HoMM-4 were surprisingly stiff. Switching to 3-D undoubtably required a lot of good stuff be omitted.. not that a budget prioritizing 3D would allow much.

PhoenixReborn wrote:[
Really? Like what. What did they omit?


.. I've read a lot of reviews here and elsewhere. While I dont have a copy of H5, I know H3 and H4 like the back of my hand. HoMM-5 is compared repeatedly to H3, mainly because of its simplicity. If you played both previous installments, you know H4 changed a lot in H3. More importantly, it added a lot of features, such as caravans and hero-less armies.

That's just mechanics. In terms of graphics, the disparity is even greater. H3 (and its expansions) improved significantly over H2 not just in detail, but in variety of terrain objects. H4 surpassed H3 by even more. Of the 3d editors I have seen, I would say that H3's variety of objects is the best they can aspire to.

Additionally, H4 introduces layering and true concealment, which geometrically increases "eye candy". Perhaps this exists in some 3d editors, but not in any I have seen.

The maps are smaller in this new 3d world, yes? And the game comes with just 6 fixed-town single player maps and 10 multiplayer, with no additional ones on the official website. I remember H3 and H4 had... a lot more.

Do you see flaws in my appraisal? To whatever extent H5 is a success, my understanding is it manages with a lot less.












Smoking_Squirrel wrote:So there you have it. That's why HoMM-5 isnt regaining HoMM's lost glory. I never bought H-5 'cause as soon as I saw 3-D, I knew it was doomed. I won't play H4 because I'm sick of bludgeoning a helpless AI. I wont go back to HoMM-3 because H4 has so many improvements. Aaaaaaauugh!

So you judge the game without playing it, nice.



Anything to avoid buying a shoddy product. :P

PhoenixReborn wrote:Homm 2 had the best graphics. My opinion.


ThunderTitan wrote: No see, it had the best art style. H4 had the best graphic engine. I hate H5's art style, and the engine is so-so even for a 3D one.


Ha! See pheonix, I keep learning more all the time, without even playing! (Advanced reading and deduction skills embodied in someone with slow mental reflexes like myself :D ). I already suspected H5 had a weak graphic engine, and TT agrees.

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Postby HodgePodge » Oct 22 2006, 21:25

ThunderTitan wrote:
dc5850 wrote:The only people I've seen banned (and usually for just a couple of weeks) have been due to flaming with obscene language.


Or rabid anti-SF language. Ain't that right HP. ;)

Yes, that's right TT … I got banned for breaking the "no discussing StarForce rule". Then UbiSoft woke up from their brain-dead condition and decided it was good for business to NOT include StarForce in any more of their games. GOOD DECISION! But it still remains that people (not just myself) were banned for telling UbiSoft not to use StarForce or we wouldn't buy any games which included it.
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Postby Shauku » Oct 22 2006, 21:30

HodgePodge wrote:But it still remains that people (not just myself) were banned for telling UbiSoft not to use StarForce or we wouldn't buy any games which included it.


:D:D I fell of the chair after reading this one

:hoo:

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Postby ThunderTitan » Oct 22 2006, 21:36

Smoking_Squirrel wrote: I already suspected H5 had a weak graphic engine, and TT agrees.


We'll i do have some very high standards for 3D. And it really annoys me how the same ppl love a game's graphics and 2 years later think that the same game looks like crap. Too many shaders and not enough style.


HodgePodge wrote:Then UbiSoft woke up from their brain-dead condition and decided it was good for business to NOT include StarForce in any more of their games.


My cold cynical heart doubt that the fan complaining had much to do with the decision. It's not like Ubi was the only one to drop SF at the time.

And i'm partly right:
On 24th March 2006, Christopher Spence filed a class complaint on behalf of himself and other gamers against Ubisoft. [12] As a result of that complaint, Ubisoft dropped Starforce. [13]


I guess 5000000$ we're reason enough to get rid of it.
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Postby Smoking_Squirrel » Oct 22 2006, 21:39

PhoenixReborn wrote:
Smoking_Squirrel wrote:
The game still is turn based. Try telling Ubisoft that they could attract new sales (not just people who know homm) with a 2-d graphics game in 2006. I'm not placing a value judgement I'm just saying what is.


It wasnt too long ago that HoMM-4 came out. It seems to me that it didn't do all that badly, especially since it became immediately apparant that the AI didnt work. A non-functioning AI is a product killer for sure in any strategy game.

Tell me (for this is a matter of importance and my conviction isn't great): Are sales for H5 roughly equal at this point to where they were for H4? If so, then I would argue the much-vaunted 3-d graphics didn't help much.

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Postby ThunderTitan » Oct 22 2006, 21:41

Smoking_Squirrel wrote:Tell me (for this is a matter of importance and my conviction isn't great): Are sales for H5 roughly equal at this point to where they were for H4? If so, then I would argue the much-vaunted 3-d graphics didn't help much.


Anyone actualy know how much H4 sold?! About H5 i did hear something about 350k somewhere on the forum.
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Postby MistWeaver » Oct 22 2006, 22:15

ThunderTitan wrote:
PhoenixReborn wrote:Homm 2 had the best graphics. My opinion.


No see, it had the best art style.


From all title series, it has 100% best heroes portraits.

ThunderTitan wrote: About H5 i did hear something about 350k somewhere on the forum


Some ppl say its 350k (middle summer) overall. And some say its 350 for UBI zones and 300 for Nival zones(Nival has publisher rights on post-ussr area)

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Postby Smoking_Squirrel » Oct 22 2006, 22:38

MistWeaver wrote:
ThunderTitan wrote:
PhoenixReborn wrote:Homm 2 had the best graphics. My opinion.


No see, it had the best art style.


From all title series, it has 100% best heroes portraits.

ThunderTitan wrote: About H5 i did hear something about 350k somewhere on the forum


Some ppl say its 350k (middle summer) overall. And some say its 350 for UBI zones and 300 for Nival zones(Nival has publisher rights on post-ussr area)


Could sales really be that strong in USSR ??
Anyhow, thanks for the help. It looks like the challenge now will be in figuring how well H4 sold the first moth.


chaosgorgon wrote:
> BTW i hate the way how these stupid dwarfs taken
> the name of my beloved faction (fortress)..

I didn't recognize the gorgon conection right away -Good thing you pointed it out! A toast to Fortress! <clinks unicorn skull tankard>

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Postby Elvin » Oct 22 2006, 23:26

Smoking_Squirrel wrote:Could sales really be that strong in USSR ??
Anyhow, thanks for the help. It looks like the challenge now will be in figuring how well H4 sold the first moth.


Actually even if you find it,it won't be of much help.Many fans get the next heroes game just because it's heroes at first.It's afterwards that we see the reaction,if they will keep buying the game and its expansions.Some bought it,installed it and only played it for an hour:( Of course H4 had crappy expansions so that's no indication that people didn't like H4.(I liked the gathering storm but it didn't offer or correct much,winds of war was the first game I didn't bother to finish)
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