The point is that,unlike in previous games,higher tier does not equal more usefull unit.Take necro for example.Banedon wrote: Well it's only one, and I don't view it as a fair trade. It's a level 6 for level 3 after all, and it marks Shadow Matriaches as mediocre. They can take out large chunks of Master Hunters simply because they're level 6 units. The point is, Dungeon's one of the races with weak Ranged fire.
Ask GC,he pulled that one.Banedon wrote: I have lost sight of how this point is relevant to the main part of the debate however. How?
Again:Help-yes.Necesarry-no.Banedon wrote: But what's that got to do with the question? Intelligence is still going to help the Warlock.
Yes,so?We are talking about battles where you must loose something,arent we?Of course youll have some loses.The trick is to minimize them.Banedon wrote: You should drag in luck. It goes both ways, so what? You're much more likely to remember losing 10 Blood Furies to a stroke of misfortune than to win 4 consecutive battles with luck on your side. Fireball and Circle of Winter are relatively high-level spells and you won't have them. Deploying only Minotaurs? #1 It costs gold to hire Minotaurs and #2 it costs spell points.
Again,higher tier doesnt equal more usefull unit.You forgot to factor in attack,defense,damage,range penalty,etc.Now,if those matriarchs had 31 attack,50-50 damage and no range penalty,then it would be an overkill to strike hunters with them.But they dont.They have 20 attack,17-27 damage and do half damage to targets on the other side of the BF.Banedon wrote: See, if trading a level 6 unit's action for a level 3's a fine idea, why can't you trade a level 7 unit's action to kill the level 2's that are supposedly one of your opponent's most dangerous killers? After all, why would Titans in an Academy force aim at Marksmen? It's a waste, right?
What if the unicorns survive?And again,that has nothing to do with the griffins landing space.They could still block the trants.And it could also happen that you need to wait twice with the emeralds for the griffins to dive.Banedon wrote: The War Dancers aren't going to relinquish their position beside the Master Hunters. It's too dangerous. What happens if the unit your Imperial Griffins BattleDived was the Silver Unicorns instead? Then the Paladins charge them and they all die, then the Archangels break the barricade. Not good. Position on the bar? For some reason or another I've found my Emerald Dragons to be able to wait and still act before the Ancient Treants. They still have initiative 7 after waiting after all.
Ah,I always forget that exception.Ok,skel archers are something different,you cant kill them fast.Banedon wrote: You prefer to kill 100 Skeleton Archers and then have the Blood Furies retreat? If there are a grand total of 1000 Skeleton Archers, do you expect to kill them all so quickly?
No,thats not the logic Im saying is wrong.Its your "doesnt happen thus the whole thing is invalid" "logic".Oh,wait,...you just negated it.Inconsistency?Banedon wrote: In a A->B statement, if the preliminary condition is false, the statement is always true. This is a statement of mathematical logic. A->B is fully equivalent to ~B->~A. In the second form ~B is true, so ~A is also true. The way I see it, you're refusing to accept impeccable logic.
Repeating:Banedon wrote: If you're comparing just 1 of each unit, you'll have to mark Assassins as killers and Skeleton Archers as fodder. Obviously that doesn't make sense. Why not? I'll tell you why: you neglected their numbers. Blood Furies reproduce at 10 per week. If they reproduced at 20 they would be killers. But they don't. See?
And what those two acomplish via sheer numbers,furries acomplish due to high stats.Btw,I did say that both marksmen and skel archers are killers,but only due to their ridiculous numbers.
He is? So,Im learning attack,defense,luck and leadership now? I didnt know thats what I wrote,twice,up there.Oh well,you must have read it better than I thought I wrote it then.Banedon wrote: Your Warlock is learning creature-enhancing skills, not Expert Destructive Magic or Empowered spells.
Ah,again with your best argument:hypocricyBanedon wrote: Fail the Cleansing? Possible, but then just as possible they won't. Don't drag luck into a one-off situation like this one.
Cerberi,for example.Banedon wrote: As for 'killed very early', that's something that won't be happening, for the same reasons as with Blood Furies, unless they're killed by secondary damage.
I was talkin about this lineup:Enemy hero,master hunters,your hero.GO ahead,cast MI then.But you will loose one turn of hunters,one turn of hero,and a lot of units next to hunters(probably even hunters,but I forgot if theyll attack in melee and get retaliation).Banedon wrote: If the hero plays just before the Hunters, you get to cast Magical Immunity on them! Great. Cleansing indeed.
Who says youll toss furries then?You have scouts/assassins,dont you?What do you value more?Banedon wrote: That's what you think. I can play Necropolis and beat the Ranged stacks without taking casualties. I can play Haven and win and lose some Marksmen of my own - but I take less casualties, because Marksmen are freely reproducable and Blood Furies are not. I can play Academy and lose a couple of Stone Gargoyles, or Inferno and lose some Horned Overlords. How about it?
Attack those same zombies with 2 paladins,and youll loose.Banedon wrote: I suppose 4 turns with 10 Blood Furies and 2 with a level 2 Hero can wipe out 66 Zombies?
They will have to later,while the warlock will still use the same first and 2nd level spells(wizards gain knowledge,thus their spells remain the same power,warlocks gain power,thus increase their spell efficency).Banedon wrote: Wizards don't have to use Mark of the Wizard early-game. Neither do they have to use a lot of high-level spells. Eldritch Arrow FTW.
I already gave you a build up there,at least twice.Read it.Banedon wrote: Tell me exactly what your creature-focused Warlock is doing and learning.
Yes,if you are unlucky you can loose furries to overlords.So?And if you are fearing you may loose paladins,why would you then deploy furries in such a battle?Banedon wrote: You're getting more and more unreasonable. If you're unlucky, you can lose Blood Furies to Horned Overlords, but you'd have to be remarkably unlucky. The chances of all 5 Grim Raiders dealing 20 damage is 1/2^5. Add that to the chance that there are no obstacles and to the chance that the Paladins fail to move before the Grim Raiders, and to the chance that - crucially - the Haven player does not deploy the Paladins.
Fodder+spells.By fodder I mean either minotaurs or scouts.You dont need much of them either.4 can do the job,depending on your current power,that is.Banedon wrote: How often do you not run the risk of losing them? You'd stand a risk of losing them if you're up against Cerberi or Grim Raiders. Don't say Hydras. It's early-game.
And why would the dungeon hero do that?If you say because he chose to target hunters,Ill repeat myself and say that Id do that if your hunters are strong enough to survive 2 MSs and still be dangerous(meaning you have 100 of them).If you have such a stack that would mean that your other stacks are rather weak.Or,if they are not,that would mean that my army is proportionally as strong.If not,then whats the use in fighting such a battle?That would mean I made a mistake a few weaks earlier.Banedon wrote: First, if the Sylvan army can destroy the Dungeon force without Hunters, it's because the Dungeon force has voluntarily removed his hero from battle while the Ranger is still present.
And I said that Ill cast lightning bolt on your hunters because that stack can survive 2 empowered MSs and still be a significant threat(100+ of them).I wouldnt always do that.Banedon wrote: Second, I did not say my army can destroy yours no matter what you do, I only said that my army can destroy yours if you only cast Lighthing Bolt.
Umm...Are we discussing heaven or sylvan now?Banedon wrote: Third, your three spells will be three Lightning Bolts, because you're so intent on keeping the Hunters out of battle.
I didnt say kill,I said remove.And specifically said in paratheses that remove does not equal kill.Why do I even bother arguing you if I have to repeat everything to you numerous times?Banedon wrote: Four, killing 500 Marksmen with three spells is hardly easy for a level 16 Warlock, and if you're doing that you'll drain all your spellpoints and leave the other killers untouched.
Why do warlocks run out of spellpoints?Banedon wrote: Wizards can do without building dwellings early-game. Warlocks can't. They run out of spell points, Wizards generally don't.
4 paladins in day three after you built their dwelling?Ooookeeey....Banedon wrote: 4 Paladins run 66 Zombies through without any problems, while if you have just 1 you won't be using Paladins to clear the Zombies. Of course the 10 Blood Furies will win as well. They just have to move. Sylvan won't be using Hunters against the Zombies as well; they'd play hit-and-run with Sprites.
Sorry,missread the 1.Banedon wrote: I fail to read any kind of contradiction into 1 and 2.
But wait,you just gave me everything on the plate.You say that no matter where they land,griffins dont block anyone,you say that no matter where griffins are,paladins will always be targeted by the whole enemy army.That leads to the conclusion that whatever you do,everyone will pound the paladins.You can only reduce this damage,but not remove it,thus paladins will die,and fairly quickly.That,by your definition of killer units being only the units that survive(which is rather weird),means that paladins arent killers but finesse units.Banedon wrote: The Imperial Griffins do not change the Paladin's situation of being the target of the entire enemy army, but they reduce the army that are actually attacking the Paladins.
Honestly!I will stop draging this any longer until you learn how to read!Until then,my reply to everything you say further on will be:"You proved yourself wrong,yet you lack the capacity to comprehend it,thus you twist the words into delusioning yourself that you are right,and since Im not a shrink,there is no point in me trying to remove those delusions."Banedon wrote: Well then you lost this section of the debate, and we can focus on the others, and we can clear all parts related to this matter.