Proposed Swamp Town

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gregthanatos
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Proposed Swamp Town

Postby gregthanatos » Sep 30 2006, 8:00

What do you want included if the next expansion is a Water/Naga town? I think a swap town should be the most diverse and have only 1 naga unit.

As for units I was thinking:

Lizard man Upgradable to Lizard Warrior
The upgrade would have regeneration. Both versions would be "cold blooded" (+2 moral and + 20% initiative in water or swamp terrane. +1 moral and 10% initiative in desert terrane. -1 moral and -10% initiative in underground terrane, and -2 moral and -20% initiative in snow terrane.)

Alligator upgradable to swamp beast Both versions are "cold blooded." The upgrade just has more movment points and damage points.

Gorgon upgradable to Medusa
A standard ranged unit upgradable to a 35% chance to turn stacks to stone. Medusas gaze would work as in Heros IV (similar to the blind spell).

Giant turtle upgradable to Giant Snapper
High defence and hit points. Both versions are "cold blooded." Both versions have a 1 shot steam breath attack that fans out in a cone, 4 tiles in front of them. The upgrade locks onto the first unit it bites and neither stack can move or attack any other stack until one of them is dead.

venom drake upgradable to Wyvern
Token flying unit. Fast with a high attack. Both units poison their prey. The venom drake's poison only last 1 turn while the Wyvern's last 3 turns.

Naga upgradable to Naga Sorceress
The naga should be a powerful fighting unit with no retaliation. The unupgraded unit can cast ice bolt. The upgraded unit has more mana and can also cast haste and circle of winter. Upgradable it should be a powerful spellcaster and a powerful fighter.

Giant snake upgradable to Basklisk
This unit is "cold blooded" and should be huge (think harry potter 2). The upgrade can kill with its hidious gaze. I was thinking it should be like a ranged "harm" ability. Were it kills only 1 unit in a stack regardless of level. As with the medusas gaze it wouldnt affect undead and mechanical but magic resistances wouldnt stop it (being ugly isnt magic).

I like that line up because when I think of swamps I think of snakes, alligaters and snapping turtles. I think the racial ability could be enslavement. This would allow the hero to polymorph units that it finds into swamp cretures of the appropriate level. Advanced enslavement would allow creatures to be upgraded or unupgraded on the spot (for a cost) to fit into the heroes army. Expert enslavement would allow 5th, 6th and 7th level creatures to be converted. Ultimate enslavement would allow some opposing creatures to be converted over before the battle begins. A second ability of expert enslavment would be the ability to build 2 upgrades a day in the heroes starting castle (not a huge boost as the resources would be a problem in most cases by the time the hero gets expert enslavement.)

On a side note I drew the young deleb picture and if anyone wants me to draw something else I will. I was thinking of drawing a dwarf, a zombie or my take on another hero this time. Any sugestions? Im trying for something less horror/porn this time. Although I do think you can never get enough horror or porn.

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Postby Idleness2 » Sep 30 2006, 8:28

I dont like putting the nagas in this town.
Instead i propose a giant crawfish.
That way, every unit in this town's dwelling will be form of cajun food.
The entire army should suffer a -10 moral penalty when fighting anyone from New Orleans.

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Postby vhilhu » Sep 30 2006, 20:20

im a big swamp town fan, so i just had to say my appinion:

1)
basilisks as tier 7 are a great idea, but they should be giant lizards or roosters, not snakes! since when are basilisks snakes? cause Rowling said so? but ranged basilisk... thats a VERY bad idea, it just doesnt fit. and the special, kill 1 unit? a lvl 7 would kill lots of units anyway, this 1 kill wont matter anything. i suggest a 100% stoning-for-1-round attack.

2)
but anyway, the specials are really bad thought-out. an upgraded lvl 1 with regeneration? whats the point? he will so regenerate averagely 3 HP/turn? OMG IT WILL PAWN THE ENEMY! and i actually would like lizardmen more as lvl 2 and 3. its strange to have lvl 1 unit heroes.

3)
h4 meduza gaze has absolutely nothing to do with blind. you must be mixing up something.

4)
i liked h2-h3 snake-tailed medusas, so i think they should be here the same, that means: nagas and medusas shouldnt be together in the same town as different tiers, they are too similar. so instead of naga tier some lvl 1 should go, eg kobolds / goblins / big worms / big leeches.
(but i really wouldnt want gnolls to return, they didnt fit in with swamp)

5)
alligators/swamp beasts are a bad idea, too boring common animals, but i think h3 dragon flies were great, so why not return here? instead of alligators?

6)
venom drake -> wyvern, that name change is a bit silly. Wyvern -> Wyvern Monarch sounded just great. i mean drake sounds a bit bigger than wyvern, and it even has an adjective(VENOM) in front of it, so it sounds like stronger -> weaker.

i have a lot of other things to say too but im a bit tired of typing so ill just conclude my speech with this:

7)
a most diverse town? i hate diverse towns, im sure lots of others hate diversity too. university is a ranged town, thats nice, but there is no pure melee town yet(it doesnt have to be completely ranged-less, 1 semi-melee ranged unit(medusa) with few shots would do.)

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Postby Sir_Toejam » Sep 30 2006, 20:44

i agree, enough with the swampies. too many games have them already.

go fishyfolk or try something entirely new:

crab-people.

"Crab People, Crab People...'


'"Taste like crab...talk like people."

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DaemianLucifer
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Re: Proposed Swamp Town

Postby DaemianLucifer » Sep 30 2006, 20:55

gregthanatos wrote:(+2 moral and + 20% initiative in water or swamp terrane. +1 moral and 10% initiative in desert terrane. -1 moral and -10% initiative in underground terrane, and -2 moral and -20% initiative in snow terrane.)


This doesnt make sense.You know,not all lizards/snakes like deserts.Especially swamp ones.Swapping desert and underground,then snow and desert would do the trick.

gregthanatos wrote:Alligator upgradable to swamp beast Both versions are "cold blooded." The upgrade just has more movment points and damage points.


Like vhilvhu said,dragon flyes fit here better.

gregthanatos wrote:venom drake upgradable to Wyvern
Token flying unit. Fast with a high attack. Both units poison their prey. The venom drake's poison only last 1 turn while the Wyvern's last 3 turns.


I hate both venom drake and wyvern monarch.Maybe elder wyvern would be better as an upgrade of wyvern.

gregthanatos wrote:Naga upgradable to Naga Sorceress
The naga should be a powerful fighting unit with no retaliation. The unupgraded unit can cast ice bolt. The upgraded unit has more mana and can also cast haste and circle of winter. Upgradable it should be a powerful spellcaster and a powerful fighter.


Too much like pit fiend here.Though I like the idea,level swap might be a good idea.

gregthanatos wrote:Giant snake upgradable to Basklisk
This unit is "cold blooded" and should be huge (think harry potter 2). The upgrade can kill with its hidious gaze. I was thinking it should be like a ranged "harm" ability. Were it kills only 1 unit in a stack regardless of level. As with the medusas gaze it wouldnt affect undead and mechanical but magic resistances wouldnt stop it (being ugly isnt magic).


Again,basilisks are better as lizards.And their stare should work as a gorgons death stare in HIII.

gregthanatos wrote:I like that line up because when I think of swamps I think of snakes, alligaters and snapping turtles. I think the racial ability could be enslavement. This would allow the hero to polymorph units that it finds into swamp cretures of the appropriate level. Advanced enslavement would allow creatures to be upgraded or unupgraded on the spot (for a cost) to fit into the heroes army. Expert enslavement would allow 5th, 6th and 7th level creatures to be converted. Ultimate enslavement would allow some opposing creatures to be converted over before the battle begins. A second ability of expert enslavment would be the ability to build 2 upgrades a day in the heroes starting castle (not a huge boost as the resources would be a problem in most cases by the time the hero gets expert enslavement.)


Too strong ability.Look what we got with necromancy(tons of skelies).However,regenerating dead units after battle might work.

gregthanatos wrote:On a side note I drew the young deleb picture and if anyone wants me to draw something else I will. I was thinking of drawing a dwarf, a zombie or my take on another hero this time. Any sugestions? Im trying for something less horror/porn this time. Although I do think you can never get enough horror or porn.


Horror porn eh?How about vlad having his way with isabel?Is that horror enought? :devious:

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Re: Proposed Swamp Town

Postby ThunderTitan » Sep 30 2006, 21:00

DaemianLucifer wrote:I hate both venom drake and wyvern monarch. Maybe elder wyvern would be better as an upgrade of wyvern.


How about Monarch Wyvern... and wyvern monarch sounds better then elder wyvern.
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Re: Proposed Swamp Town

Postby mr.hackcrag » Sep 30 2006, 21:13

DaemianLucifer wrote:And their stare should work as a gorgons death stare in HIII.


That was the most over-powered ability ever made. I never want to see it again. Besides, there are already two creatures that have an auto-kill ability as it is.

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Re: Proposed Swamp Town

Postby DaemianLucifer » Sep 30 2006, 21:15

mr.hackcrag wrote:That was the most over-powered ability ever made. I never want to see it again.


Really?I always thought that kills half the stack was the most overpowered of them all.

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Re: Proposed Swamp Town

Postby mr.hackcrag » Sep 30 2006, 22:07

DaemianLucifer wrote:Really?I always thought that kills half the stack was the most overpowered of them all.


Oops, my memory is not so good. That was (and sadly still is) a really stupid ability.

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Re: Proposed Swamp Town

Postby Odolwa » Sep 30 2006, 23:53

gregthanatos wrote:Lizard man
Lizard Warrior
swamp beast
Giant turtle
Giant snake

Must be hard to come up with good unit names..
And the word "Giant" in two units? :disagree:

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Postby MrSteamTank » Oct 1 2006, 1:49

Wyverns should be tier 6, dragonflies should be the tier 2 unit, and the tier 7 although it should definitely should be snakelike but not really a snake. Maybe some sort of swamp wyrm that can burrow through ground.

And honestly I don't like the idea of cold blooded getting bonus' out of swamps and bonus' within. Kind of restricts this race to certain maps. Maybe if it was a secondary skill that gave them a movement/initiative bonus on swamps it would be ok.

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Re: Proposed Swamp Town

Postby vhilhu » Oct 1 2006, 6:41

mr.hackcrag wrote:
DaemianLucifer wrote:And their stare should work as a gorgons death stare in HIII.


That was the most over-powered ability ever made. I never want to see it again. Besides, there are already two creatures that have an auto-kill ability as it is.


h3 gorgon death stare rulez. really. it is NOT overpowered if the unit itself is by stats below average. its all the matter of balancing some stats downwards and it wont be overpowered.

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Re: Proposed Swamp Town

Postby Gaidal Cain » Oct 1 2006, 8:19

vhilhu wrote:h3 gorgon death stare rulez. really. it is NOT overpowered if the unit itself is by stats below average.


Or the rest of the town is rather sucky... Gorgons in H3 would have been solid units (if a bit slow) even without death stare.

Edit: typo
Last edited by Gaidal Cain on Oct 2 2006, 8:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby LordHoborgXVII » Oct 1 2006, 22:20

Swamp town was never my favorite because its creatures were randomly heaped together in weird combinations, to the extent that it seemed like something they created at the last minute before the game went gold.

Therefore anything that has Turtles, Alligators and the like can't possibly be very good to have. You have Lizardmen, which are a perfect choice to be the "higher evolved" race which would rule the other creatures in the town, which is the case with all the other towns. Lizardmen can be made into a very elegant race, if made by an artist with some sense. Some of the 'normal animals' in this town should be replaced with Lizardman varieties.

I certainly adore the fact that you have Nagas in this proposal. Nagas are one of my favorite units in H3, while they still looked good.
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Postby ThunderTitan » Oct 2 2006, 9:32

LordHoborgXVII wrote:Swamp town was never my favorite because its creatures were randomly heaped together in weird combinations, to the extent that it seemed like something they created at the last minute before the game went gold.


Except the Gnolls all the creatures looked like they belonged in a swamp. As for the Gorgons, blame D&D.
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Postby chaosgorgon » Oct 2 2006, 13:42

i always have thought about an Aztec-Mayan-Indonesian topic in the "swamp" town, and yes Nagas would be nice in that town

i liked a lot the story in warlords 3 battlecry, something like the american conquest, only that this time the invaders gets their a**es kicked

but i think that a swamp town will never happen :disagree:
Tigrans forever!!!!meow!!!

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Postby Shuyssar » Oct 2 2006, 16:52

I like the idea of a swamp town. It sounds original and fun, but it needs at least one powerful dragon! :)

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Postby mr.hackcrag » Oct 2 2006, 17:08

I think it needs hydras, but that's never going to happen, no thanks to dungeon. :mad:

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Postby DaemianLucifer » Oct 2 2006, 17:23

Shuyssar wrote:I like the idea of a swamp town. It sounds original and fun, but it needs at least one powerful dragon! :)


Yes,adding a dragon to it would improve its originality a lot.

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Postby mr.hackcrag » Oct 2 2006, 17:52

Actually, dragons fit in a lot more in a lizard town than some other towns I know of...*cough* dwarves.

But anyway, hydras are similar to dragons, while being unique, so having them in there would have been nice. There are also dragon flies,(more like annoying, overgrown, mosquitos) so yeah, I think there are enough dragons already.


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