Enlightment, is it finally worth picking now?

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Killroyan
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Enlightment, is it finally worth picking now?

Postby Killroyan » Sep 22 2006, 13:16

Right now I am in the third map of the campaign and enjoy playing the necromancer a lot. I got enlightment via a witch hut and thought oh what the heck lets see how it works. 30% extra exp and +1 to one of my primary stats for every two levels. Well with a level 20 necromancer it would mean +10 to stats. The exp is just meh in the campaign because you will get the cap anyway but the extra stats is huge. Already the necromancer has 13 defense and 17 spell power (attack 3 and knowledge 6). So what do you guys think, enlightment finally worth while or not. The extra skill from enlightment for the necromancer is lord of the undead which is incredible usefull with the extra knowledge necromancers are lacking. I have to say that I am starting to fall in love with this skill.

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Grumpy Old Wizard
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Postby Grumpy Old Wizard » Sep 22 2006, 14:19

Enlightenment is very useful for all classes and is a must for a wizard.

GOW
Frodo: "I wish the ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened."
Gandalf: "So do all who live to see such times but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."

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maltz
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Postby maltz » Sep 22 2006, 15:36

It is usually what you are trading the skills for enlightenment. For Markal I would highly recommend NOT to take enlightenment when you play heroic, patch 1.2, as you are going to face an insane Godric at the end. You will definitely need:

- Dark
- Summon
- Sorcery

at least, or you simply can't win against his overwhelming force. So if you take Enlightenment you will have no other room left. But as you know, battle frenzy and archery are so nice for your skeleton archers (boosts their power to nearly 200%) that you can't really miss it. Enlightenment only gives you about 20% stat bonus in campaigns (or less) since there are usually a lot of stat boosters on the maps.

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cornellian
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Postby cornellian » Sep 22 2006, 15:57

Actually I have picked Enlightenment for Markal in the campaign instead of Dark Magic (doesn't make a lot of sense for a Necromancer, I know), and our half insane hero turned up to be a powerhouse, as around 15+ bonus stat points mostly gone to spellpower could only make him one thing: a much more powerful necromancer..

You should have seen the stats of the Phoenix (1800+ HP and ~100 attack and defense) I summoned in the last map, which, by the way, I finished in the sixth day (iirc). So, it definately is a viable option to take enlightenment in campaigns, but, true, it will help more in large custom maps...

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Postby Panda Tar » Sep 22 2006, 16:52

That Eagle Eye ability...does anyone take it? I've never used so far.
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Postby AngelEyes » Sep 22 2006, 17:25

Panda Tar wrote:That Eagle Eye ability...does anyone take it? I've never used so far.


I've avoided this ability like the plague since it first came out in Heroes 3 (Though it became interesting in WoG.).

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Postby Panda Tar » Sep 22 2006, 17:49

How does that work in WoG? :?
"There’s nothing to fear but fear itself and maybe some mild to moderate jellification of bones." Cave Johnson, Portal 2. :panda:

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Jolly Joker
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Postby Jolly Joker » Sep 22 2006, 18:14

There are two options (you can pick one or both)
1) Hero learns a new spell with each level raise
2) Hero has a 10/20/30% chance to counter an enemy beneficial spell for 8 mana (7 with Water magic).

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maltz
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Postby maltz » Sep 22 2006, 18:37

cornellian wrote:You should have seen the stats of the Phoenix...


Yes SP is related to pheonix's strength (also level. Level has more impact, though.)

For that Godric army I saw, any phoenix die in one hit. However, with spirit link (dark magic) I had infinite mana, so I summoned an endless stream of phoenix to finally wear it down.

Seriously I think they've recreated some bug in patch 1.2 heroic, but it is not so extreme like Nicolai's 600 dragon/day that cannot be broken. I know most people don't go for heroiic...

Actually I am a huge enlightenment fan myself. However, there are some other very nice passive skills that will boost your power more than the enlightenment bonus. For example, luck for a might hero (and warlock now).

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Postby Sir_Toejam » Sep 22 2006, 20:52

That Eagle Eye ability...does anyone take it? I've never used so far.


it's actually quite a decent ability under certain circumstances.

don't have meteor shower in your mage guild?

go fight a stack of pit lords, and presto, now your hero has it.

your opponent has phantom forces and you didn't get it...

etc.

one thing i've never tested is whether you learn the new spells during or after the battle. It would be cool if during, but i think it's actually after.

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Postby wayne » Sep 23 2006, 3:00

After completing the campaign on normal mode, I feel that Enlightenment is not very useful in the campaigns due to the level caps. It's a better skill in multi-player maps.

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Postby PhoenixReborn » Sep 23 2006, 4:20

Arcane intuition is much better than the old eagle eye.

The old way you had a percent chance to learn a spell. Now, you will learn the spell if your magic school is at the appropriate level. It's nice to get suffering, fireball etc. from creatures.

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Postby Gaidal Cain » Sep 23 2006, 7:30

wayne wrote:After completing the campaign on normal mode, I feel that Enlightenment is not very useful in the campaigns due to the level caps.


Disagree. To me, the important part of Enlightenment is the bonus Stats. The extra XP is kind of nice, but it's not what I pick the skill for.
You don't want to make enemies in Nuclear Engineering. -- T. Pratchett

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Cyrox
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Postby Cyrox » Sep 23 2006, 12:18

I think Enlightenment are very good spellcasting heros.

Normally their tetiary skills boost knowledge or spellpower..

If you're Dungeon or Necropolis, you could probably gain 7-8 spellpower or more if ur lvl 20++ with enlightenment.

This is useful especially for warlocks.

Consider 8 extra points of spellpower when implied to casting empowered implosion.

Coupled with earth slippers,

that means (40 x 8) x 2 (50% due to empowered and 50% due to earth slippers and u get 100%) x 2 (due to warlock's luck)

and you get 1280 worth of potential damage

Now some of u may argue what is 1280 extra damage, but I've played games against the AI into 3 months(on hard) and I've never encountered any army which cant be destroyed in 2k-3k of damage (maybe the largest would be like 3k++, which can be achieved by spells)

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Postby Qurqirish Dragon » Sep 23 2006, 13:19

Sir_Toejam wrote:
That Eagle Eye ability...does anyone take it? I've never used so far.


it's actually quite a decent ability under certain circumstances.

don't have meteor shower in your mage guild?

go fight a stack of pit lords, and presto, now your hero has it.

your opponent has phantom forces and you didn't get it...

etc.

one thing i've never tested is whether you learn the new spells during or after the battle. It would be cool if during, but i think it's actually after.


I haven't checked since my original run through under 1.0/1.1, but You could also learn spells from your OWN creatures with this.

Thus, for example, if you have access to an inferno town, the hero WILL learn fireball / meteor storm even if the mage guild is not built up (great for resource-poor maps!)

The genies of the academy will let you get practically every buff/debuff spell- find a weak neutral stack and attack with 7 stacks of genies to learn them all in one battle!

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Postby player1 » Sep 23 2006, 13:22

To me, Englightment is good choice, since it makes possible to take Intelligence and increase mana by +50%.

And in my experience with campaign, Markal is very low on knowledge early, so extra mana would really benefit him.

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Postby Orfinn » Sep 23 2006, 14:29

Huh, eagle eyes works with allied creatures casting spells? Havent noticed thath, only thought it counted for the enemy :|

Killroyan
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Postby Killroyan » Sep 23 2006, 15:18

So far my spell power and defense are going through the roof with enlightment. Attack and knowledge is low. But with summon magic and dark magic I am doing ok. The 50% extra mana is definitely great as will be the extra knowledge and 5% necromancy. So far I am not complaining with Markhal. Level 21 and 19 spell power is pretty ok if you ask me ;)

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mr.dna
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Postby mr.dna » Sep 23 2006, 16:53

I really like it for my warlock + luck and empowered spells and a massive spellpower is very effective.

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Postby okrane » Sep 23 2006, 20:19

I really like it for my warlock + luck and empowered spells and a massive spellpower is very effective.


What is your skill tree for a warlock?... Mine has no room for Enlightment... although I admit It woud be rather nice to have it. I have the following dream tree:

Destructive Magic: M of Fire, M of Storms, Secrets of destr
Luck: soldiers luck, Warlock's luck, Magic resistance
Attack: tactics, power of speed, Retribution
Sorcery: Arcane Traning, Mana regen, Magic Insight
Logistics: Pathfinding, Scoutingm Teleport Attack

So... any other ideas?


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