Let's balance Academy...

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What would be most needed or most appropriate ?

make mage stats k35 sp35 a15 d15
2
8%
tweak some creatures stats (genie s life...)
2
8%
more marks of the wizard (which work with sorc now)
0
No votes
adjust creatures artifact cost or effectiveness
1
4%
change spells effects or give mage more
0
No votes
change dwellings costs
4
17%
give genies auto random spell casting when they act
2
8%
give genies more health
0
No votes
or several of the options above
13
54%
 
Total votes: 24

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Kilop
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Let's balance Academy...

Postby Kilop » Sep 20 2006, 14:57

Which change semms to you the most approptiate, or the most important balance wise ?

PLEASE DO NOT CHOOSE SEVERAL OPTION TO HELP DEFINE WHAT IS BETTER!!

The subject here is to gather ideas, etheir to make a mod, that satisfies most of the people, or just to give feedback to the devs, which will of course get the idea to immediatly give us a patch with them in it...
The poll is here just to give some ides, anymore are welcome.
I did this thread after reading the complains about academy 1.3, however I am not favorable to change ressources cost...
please feel free to try to improve the balance of this game :)
Last edited by Kilop on Sep 20 2006, 16:57, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby mr.hackcrag » Sep 20 2006, 15:22

When you put in that last option in the poll, you completely derailed any responsibility for people to post exactly which options they wanted balanced and why. Nonetheless, I'm sure lots of people will still post. I can't really say because I don't play H5 enough to know what changes it needs.

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Jolly Joker
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Postby Jolly Joker » Sep 20 2006, 15:24

Not that I want to meddle here, just a question? Isn't this poll likely to either have no conclusive result or something like 50% for the several options?
Wouldn't it better to actually make a series of either/or polls?
Like: Poll 1) Tweaking ONE area
Tweaking more than one
From then on going farther with either/or polls?

Just an idea.

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Postby ThunderTitan » Sep 20 2006, 16:08

Jolly Joker wrote:Isn't this poll likely to either have no conclusive result or something like 50% for the several options?


Well if Nival already knows what's best for the game why bother?! A modder can just use all of the higher voted options and see what ppl like or dislike about it.
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Kilop
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Postby Kilop » Sep 20 2006, 16:54

ok , you are right, i delete the several option.. and add this precision, Which change semms to you the most approptiate, or the most important balance wise ?


erf cannot change poll ...
well let s do it that way and see the results, we will adjust the questions later on ...
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Postby Arqane » Sep 20 2006, 20:38

Well, I'd also like to add my None of the Above post. I know they were changed, but I've had no problems adjusting. You don't need to add it in this poll necessarily, but it would be good to mention that not everyone thinks Academy has become useless through the last few patches.

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Postby Sir_Toejam » Sep 20 2006, 21:56

how about:

reducing rare resource costs for dwellings 1-5 by 40% (excluding mage guild, which has already been reduced)

example: mages building costs 4 sulfur less

and

giving djinn 5 more hps and upgraded djinn 8 more hps.

if even one person votes that this would work, I'll do it tommorrow and post it in the mods section.

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Postby DaemianLucifer » Sep 20 2006, 22:17

Voted first three options.Although the first one Im not sure should be done like that.Also,I dont think that making already powerful mage even stronger is the key.But making them a bit easier obtainable sure is.

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Postby Mytical » Sep 20 2006, 22:20

Sir_Toejam wrote:how about:

reducing rare resource costs for dwellings 1-5 by 40% (excluding mage guild, which has already been reduced)

example: mages building costs 4 sulfur less

and

giving djinn 5 more hps and upgraded djinn 8 more hps.

if even one person votes that this would work, I'll do it tommorrow and post it in the mods section.

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Postby Sir_Toejam » Sep 21 2006, 0:32

uh, I'll take the three dancing smilies as an affirmative vote then?

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Postby asandir » Sep 21 2006, 1:14

i think you can take them as 3 affirmative votes!!

plus one for dwelling cost changes, not sure about the genies cause if you have less resource requirements then artifacts are easier to get and buffing can start to occur that way
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Postby Sir_Toejam » Sep 21 2006, 1:18

yeah, but low level artifacts that add health are really only valuable for low level critters, like gremlins.

adding the hps to djinn makes them a bit more durable, and adding artifacts to them can concentrate on magic protection, speed, or initiative.

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Postby MrSteamTank » Sep 21 2006, 3:06

Honestly to balance academy the only thing I'd really tweak is the genie. Right now he's rather weak and it hurts academy especially when your facing nightmares, unicorns, inquisitors, and lich's.

I don't mind seeing the genie have such low hp so I wouldn't like to see an hp increase . It makes him a unique tier 5 unit by having a high dmg and low hp melee unit. If you up his hp he'll just become more similar to the other melee and academy already have 4 tough melee units(if you include colossus) to choose from. Having one that functions in a completely different capacity makes academy more interesting.

My only problem with him is that considering his cost his attack/defense stats are simply too low for a tier 5. He has the lowest tier 5 attack/defense stats in the game. 13/12 and 15/13 is terrible considering nightmares have 18/18 and cost less than djinni sultans(not to mention nightmares have around 60% more hp as well and 33% more initiative).

I'd probably up djinn stats to 15/15(from 13/12 non-upgraded) and 17/17(from 15/13 non-upgraded). That would probably be enough to make them useful while keeping their uniqueness of being vulnerable against spells but better in close combat.

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Postby DaemianLucifer » Sep 21 2006, 3:31

Arqane wrote:Well, I'd also like to add my None of the Above post. I know they were changed, but I've had no problems adjusting. You don't need to add it in this poll necessarily, but it would be good to mention that not everyone thinks Academy has become useless through the last few patches.


I think most people would agree with you that academy didnt become useless through patching,but that it rather was useless to begin with :devious:

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Postby asandir » Sep 21 2006, 3:50

agreed, and then for the last patch to try and improve things by making everyone else suffer resource problems (while also compounding academys issues) seems pretty shoddy to me
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Postby cornellian » Sep 21 2006, 3:56

None for me, not the way Academy now is, considering they got more powerful in my taste.. Today, actually just an hour ago, I absolutely crushed my friends in a MP game playing with Academy.. They aren't weaklings by any standards, both are seasoned Heroes fans, and both finished HV's campaigns. One was Necromancer, the other Haven, we picked random heroes (to avoid any flame wars afterwards :D), and I got Razzak, the golem master..

Anyway, I have to agree with JJ on his posts in 1.3 Academy thread, if you forgo your heroes' magical training (which is counter-intuitive of course) then you don't have any problems at all if you manage to save your troops in the first two weeks.. With the cost of getting Titans greatly reduced, Academy is ready to kick some serious butt after the fourth week, which is usually around the time people start engaging each other unless it is a small map.. The strength of Titans finally come into play now as they wipe out every ranged creature there is (except maybe liches) with no trouble at all an almost always in the first turn. The Genies' low HP doesn't really matter when they don't have to engage in melee..

Right now, the only way I can see an Academy army being seriously outgunned is if the enemy hero has Master of Abjuration skill. Otherwise having 10 less mages and 6-8 titans is a pretty good deal I'd say, and wizards hardly need another boost (they have the best town theme anyway :D )...

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Postby Sir_Toejam » Sep 21 2006, 4:27

My only problem with him is that considering his cost his attack/defense stats are simply too low for a tier 5.


so what about lowering the purchase cost?

would that be better than adding hps?

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Postby Arqane » Sep 21 2006, 6:24

Sorry Cornellian, we seem to be ignored in this thread. That's basically fine, because he's trying to find out what to change if anything for Academy to make it better.

As far as that goes, I would like to see more use of the Djinn and Rakshasas. While I know their stats are decent, and they can be powerful, I can't remember the last time I used them besides mopping up. Buying their buildings is either odd, or expensive, or both. I do just as well with Gremlins, Gargoyles, Golems, and Titans in more of a rush style than bothering to get the others. And yes, I very rarely use mages/archmages, too much hassle for me :).

So a somewhat modified tree would be my vote for a change. Not really as a power issue, just that it would be nice to more consistently use most of Academy's troops.

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Jolly Joker
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Postby Jolly Joker » Sep 21 2006, 6:31

Known phenomenon. I'm with you.

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Postby Arqane » Sep 21 2006, 6:48

DaemianLucifer wrote:
Arqane wrote:Well, I'd also like to add my None of the Above post. I know they were changed, but I've had no problems adjusting. You don't need to add it in this poll necessarily, but it would be good to mention that not everyone thinks Academy has become useless through the last few patches.


I think most people would agree with you that academy didnt become useless through patching,but that it rather was useless to begin with :devious:


Well, if they ever did change my basic strategy it would be tough. Fortunately they didn't. I found out pretty early that low tier creatures are just as powerful as high tier with their numbers. With Razzak's Att/Def boost as well as the skills towards Golems, it makes them powerful enough for sure. I'll usually mix another strategy in with this depending on who I get, but as the old saying goes, 'if it's not broken, don't fix it'.


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