less talk, more action

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.
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Sir_Toejam
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less talk, more action

Unread postby Sir_Toejam » 20 Sep 2006, 02:16

OK, since I've been posting essentially the same thing in various threads, I'll just make a general request here:

instead of spending all this time debating what creature values or building resource requirements etc., need to be changed... I'd just like to point out that this stuff is incredibly easy to change in Homm5.

tools needed:

text editor

winzip/winrar

here's the general instructions:

go the the data directory where your h5 game is installed.

open the data.pak file in winrar/winzip.

search the directories therein for the specific thing you are looking for.

as an example, you can find all the files that need to be changed to modify building requirements here:

\GameMechanics\TownBuildingSharedStats

let's say you want to change the resource requirements to build the mage tower.

you would go here:

\GameMechanics\TownBuildingSharedStats\Academy\Dwelling_4

and see there are 2 xdb files (really just xml files), one for each of the mage towers (basic and upgraded).

open either in a text editor (rt-click and open with notepad, say), and see that it looks an awful lot like a webpage code (cause it is - xml). check the items area, and you'll see the resources required.

OK, move up one level in the directory structure:

\GameMechanics\TownBuildingSharedStats\Academy

rt-click on the dwelling_4 folder, and extract that folder to a new directory somewhere on your puter, so you can safely edit the files therein. make sure you tell your zipper to maintain the directory structures (relative, not absolute).

use your text editor to change the values as you wish in the xdb files, then save.

zip up the whole directory (move up to the "gamemechanics" level, rt-click and select add to archive). use no compression (store), and store relative directories.

you can zip it to a .pak file directly, or just change the extension to .pak after the zip is done.

drop the pak file you just made into your h5 data directory.

done.

the thing that takes the longest time is simply finding the right entry for what you want to modify to begin with.

also make sure when you check out the xdb file, that you take a gander at other files referenced within the xdb that you might also need to modify.

for example, to modify skills, you need to not only modify the exact skill xdb, but also the reftable xdb file as well (this is pointed to inside of the skill xdb, which gives the clue).

give yourself a couple of hours to play around, and you'll see how easy this is.

now get to work, damnit!

;)

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Re: less talk, more action

Unread postby ThunderTitan » 20 Sep 2006, 02:19

Sir_Toejam wrote: now get to work, damnit! ;)
Yeah, if it ain't the fans job to fix the game whos' is it. :devil:
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Sir_Toejam
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Unread postby Sir_Toejam » 20 Sep 2006, 02:20

there's what you wish were true, then there's the reality.

in this case, the reality is easily modified without much effort.

so stop whining about Nival's mistakes, and fix em to your own pleasure.

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Re: less talk, more action

Unread postby DaemianLucifer » 20 Sep 2006, 02:28

Sir_Toejam wrote:OK, since I've been posting essentially the same thing in various threads, I'll just make a general request here:

instead of spending all this time debating what creature values or building resource requirements etc., need to be changed... I'd just like to point out that this stuff is incredibly easy to change in Homm5.

tools needed:

text editor

winzip/winrar

.
.
.

the thing that takes the longest time is simply finding the right entry for what you want to modify to begin with.

also make sure when you check out the xdb file, that you take a gander at other files referenced within the xdb that you might also need to modify.

.
.
.

give yourself a couple of hours to play around, and you'll see how easy this is.

now get to work, damnit!

;)
MayI tell you the universal truth number two again:PEOPLE ARE LAZY and I cant stress that one enough.Its always easier to tell to someone else what youd like to be done.

Although I might try playing with those thing-a-ma-jigs a bit.I like tinkering with stuff :devil:

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Unread postby Sir_Toejam » 20 Sep 2006, 02:39

so... the point of someone who is a complete lazy *ss complaining about issues they can easily change themselves would be?

that's MY point, which I do hope you aren't trying to counter, considering.

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DaemianLucifer
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Unread postby DaemianLucifer » 20 Sep 2006, 02:56

My point,actually is that instead of saying "you can find it easily,just spare a few hours",you could write a guide saying "To change creatures stats find this and this".Sure,most of those things are trivial,but I gave it a look,and some of the things arent that obvious and easy to change.

So get to work :D

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Unread postby Sir_Toejam » 20 Sep 2006, 02:59

you're not even playing the game any more, by your own admission.

why are you even bothering to comment?

this is for folks who are actually interested.

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Unread postby DaemianLucifer » 20 Sep 2006, 03:10

I am actually interesting.Modding the game might actually make me enjoy the game.But there are some things Im not too keen to search for meanings.For example this:
<SpellPoints>17</SpellPoints>
<SpellPoints1>0</SpellPoints1>
<SpellPoints2>0</SpellPoints2>
What are SpellPoints1 and SpellPoints2?Or what is TimeToCommand?What is MonsterShared?

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Unread postby Sir_Toejam » 20 Sep 2006, 03:20

beats me.

but you don't need to know a lot of things in order to change the important stats.

the first entry for spellpoints is what counts, for example.

the only interesting creature entry that I haven't figured out yet is what "power" refers to.

I'm hoping that has to do with the power curve used to calculate the damage per individual.

I notice it's much higher for druids than for mages, for example. no way to find out except to change it and see what happens.

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Unread postby DaemianLucifer » 20 Sep 2006, 03:26

Probably true.I also noticed that djinni have the spellpower1 and not spellpower.So it might be able to cast this amount of spells.But what sp2 is,I have no clue.

I did notice that there are heroes under creatures.Does that mean we can add them to the BF as well?

Theres also an uber chain lightning :| And interesting to know is that curses and buffs can be adjustet by power.
<WindAffected>false</WindAffected>
:| 8| Why isnt it explained like in civ?Still,with a bit of tinkering(lets say 3-6 months)fans will crack the game completely.Im glad that its modable,so Ill be able to play my favourite heroes again in about years time :D

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Unread postby okrane » 20 Sep 2006, 08:27

H5 can be modded it's true... but if anyone would have his own mod... what woud the game become... we must reach a common denominator...
that is a mod which everyone will play... if not how can we play on-line for that matter...

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Unread postby DaemianLucifer » 20 Sep 2006, 08:32

okrane wrote:H5 can be modded it's true... but if anyone would have his own mod... what woud the game become...
Something similar to civ? :|

Dont worry,it can work.

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Unread postby Sir_Toejam » 20 Sep 2006, 09:28

H5 can be modded it's true... but if anyone would have his own mod... what woud the game become... we must reach a common denominator...
that is a mod which everyone will play... if not how can we play on-line for that matter...
OMG, the HORROR!

dogs and cats, living in sin!

variety..spice...life.

all you have to do is agree to play with the same mods as anybody you choose to play with.

simple.

mods are quickly swapped or removed. there can be dozens of different flavors for any specific feature.

example:

some might like to get their ultimate skill by level 10, others by level 15, others by level 20, etc...

all you have to do on any given day or game is just select which version you want to play with that day.

there's even a mod manager to handle the chore of keeping straight which mods you currently have installed.


what you will find over time is that some mod versions will become more popular than others, and may be adopted as some sort of "standard" at some point, but ITMT, who cares? the more variety available, the more folks can experiment and find out what works for them.

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Unread postby Bonzer » 20 Sep 2006, 10:40

Looking into my crystal ball...

The mist is slowly clearing....

I can see letters...and a number...

H5....WOG

There are many ideas floated by users on the forums, all of them good and valid for the poster, lots of them conflicting. Given Sir Toejam's excellent opening all it needs is a clear head and perhaps another forum (H5 wishlist?) to gather all the ideas and agree what would be implemented.

No, I don't volunteer....but from what I read on here there should be a "Legion" of you out there who could. So who wants to be a H5 Legionairre?
We will either find a way, or we will make one. Emperor Hannibal.

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Unread postby dragonn » 20 Sep 2006, 10:59

You say that players should change those features themselves if they want them the way the want :D

Hey, why asking Nival, let's make another Heroes game ourselves!

No, for me playing a game is not messing with a great number of it's mechanics. It's the producers job. If someone likes to mod that's his own right. But many people just don't like to mess with their game, and not because of their lazyness...

And usually mods are things that change the entire game look, not something that should have been fixed by those which designed the game...

Don't mind my opinion though, I'm probably wrong...
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Unread postby Panda Tar » 20 Sep 2006, 12:04

DaemianLucifer wrote:
<SpellPoints>17</SpellPoints>
<SpellPoints1>0</SpellPoints1>
<SpellPoints2>0</SpellPoints2>
What are SpellPoints1 and SpellPoints2?Or what is TimeToCommand?
That must be controllers, avoiding you to cast without spellpoints. :proud:

Maybe not. :devious:
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Unread postby Sir_Toejam » 20 Sep 2006, 12:13

Don't mind my opinion though, I'm probably wrong...
noted.

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Unread postby Naskoni » 20 Sep 2006, 14:01

So yeah, it's like we pay Nival and then we fix whatever they screwed too, on our own time instead of playing what we paid for... Hmmm - now how come that doesn't sound right...

On the other hand I'm tired of waiting - I might not live long enough after all and hope is slim as it is.

How can I add abilities to creatures, not just tweak the current ones (not that I've figured how to do that either). Is there a mod guide of any sort for the game? If I make a decent mod I'd like to release it as an adequate .pak file so that I won't have to retweak all the stuff every installation/patch.

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Unread postby Sir_Toejam » 21 Sep 2006, 05:13

*shrug*

I look at it as motivation to start understanding how the game mechanics work.

there hasn't been a homm series that wasn't improved by mods, so might as well get started now and see if some genuine interest can be generated.

Nival is what it is. take what they have given and improve on it.

stand on the shoulders of those that came before, and whatnot.

Neverwinter nights wouldn't have been half the game it was without the gigantic modding community that sprouted up around it.

it's actually still a pretty active community.

I'd guess there are well over 3000 mods and maybe a thousand "maps" available at this point.

If h5 could generate 1/10th of the community that NWN did, I for one would be a happy camper.
How can I add abilities to creatures, not just tweak the current ones (not that I've figured how to do that either).
it's easy enough to add and subtract abilities that currently exist (you can swap any existing abilities on any creatures quite easily), and I can imagine with a bit of work it wouldn't be hard to invent new ones and add them as well.
Is there a mod guide of any sort for the game?
no, unfortunately. there is a mod faq over in the modcrafting guild on CH, and there is a similar thread over on elrath, but nothing coherent yet.

I learned by looking at other mods, seeing the directories where the data files are stored, and then checking out the main data.pak file to figure out the rest.

If I make a decent mod I'd like to release it as an adequate .pak file so that I won't have to retweak all the stuff every installation/patch.
that's the way to do it, but you will still have to update the timestamps on the files inside the pak file if a patch comes out that has modifications to the same files yours does.

that's the funky thing about how mods work in this game; the engine relies on whatever files have the most recent dates.

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Unread postby DaemianLucifer » 21 Sep 2006, 06:14

Naskoni wrote: How can I add abilities to creatures, not just tweak the current ones (not that I've figured how to do that either). Is there a mod guide of any sort for the game? If I make a decent mod I'd like to release it as an adequate .pak file so that I won't have to retweak all the stuff every installation/patch.
Go here data.pak\GameMechanics\Creature\Creatures (in the data.pak) and copy these lines
<KnownSpells>
<Item>
<Spell>"something"</Spell>
<Mastery>"something"</Mastery>
</Item>
</KnownSpells>
From one creature to the other,below health.

But oddly enough(t),there isnt a line for unlimited retal for griffins,spell immunity of gargoyls,etc.Where are those things?


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