Sea neutral Monsters at the Ashan ocean

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

Sea neutral Monsters – they have been needed at the Ashan ocean, haven’t been them?

Searching into seas will become more fascinating, source and artifacts mining will be more interesting.
28
88%
Searching by water’s part of map’ll be dynamic and fascinated. Walking by sea can’t compose with walking on the ground.
2
6%
Their appearances won’t change something.
1
3%
No! Seas are bodefull thing, witch take place at strategic map senselessly.
1
3%
 
Total votes: 32

Triton_Xaar
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Sea neutral Monsters at the Ashan ocean

Unread postby Triton_Xaar » 18 Sep 2006, 18:15

Sea neutral monsters – they have been needed at the Ashan ocean?


1. The populated seas become more dangerous, and gathering of resources and artefacts — more fascinating.
2. Travel on water sites of a map and without their presence are dynamical and interesting.
3. Sea walks to not be made even to travel overland. Their occurrence all the same will change nothing.
4. No! The Seas is the annoying barrier vainly taking a place on a strategic map!
5. To me all the same.


===============================================

Not so long ago, developers of Heroes of the Sword and Magic 5 from Moscow studio NIVAL INTERACTIVE, had been announced the first official addition to Game - Heroes of Might and Magic V: Hammers of Fate.

Except for really new unique fraction of Dwarves, founders of Heroes promise to enter a lot of innovations into the game world and to present Players set of surprises. One of such pleasant unexpectedness - is the promise of developers to fill up numbers of neutral essences.
I shall dare to remind, that earlier on all the questions, concerning introductions in Game neutrals monster employees NIVAL gave one constant answer, that, say, they are not going to increase their quantity. Spoke, that Elementals, and the Knight of Death it is quite enough Phoenix. About this not time it has been told in a branch of a forum « Dialogue with the developer».

But anyway, but returning in Game Mantikor, Wolves and Mummies is already promised to us. Therefore, I shall not begin to find out, what exactly has influenced so pleasant decision for Players, and I shall try to concentrate attention of founders of Heroes 5 (in fact they read a forum) on a problem of settling of water sites of a strategic map.

It would be desirable to make it by means of interrogation of the most important and captious critics, people for which actually and it was created Ashan - by means of Players. In fact who knows - can be, interrogation will show, that around of the seas Ashan’s there are no problems - that all and so it is remarkable.
And can be, its results will give founders of Game a sign that is valid - with the "dead" seas it is necessary for something to solve. And developers while creation add-on in the heat, will decide to add to already declared neutral essences, one-two sea.

Well and, certainly, to not be proofless, I shall result some examples of that neutral sea essences - can be really interesting to Players.

1. THAT we HAVE AT PRESENT.

That there a sin to conceal - transition to « three regularities » has as well as possible affected appearance of all without exception of landscapes. Sea open spaces Ashan not exception: the ripples of waves, the patches of light, the sky reflected in water and a shadow of the ships, magic sparks of a surf and kind ten the objects which are settling down on a sea surface, certainly, are beautiful. But, there is in all this magnificence one essential lack - not looking on all this, the seas in Heroes 5 look static, lifeless, melancholy. And it very strongly contrasts with that abundance of a life and movement which, I shall not be afraid of this word, continental part Ashan simply "teems". It, at least, strange, in fact theoretically, the sea a cradle of a life also should be not less populated. As both in mythology, and in fantasy the worlds of sea essences suffices. Is whom to occupy - there would be a desire.
But it most depressing at all{even not}. The most sad that that on a land to pick up a bundle of fire wood, a few ores or a handful of semi-precious stones, as a rule, it is necessary to fight. All is protected - both objects and strategic points-passes. On the sea, having equipped the ship with the Hero at the disposal of whom there is ONE! The soldier of the first level, it is possible нагрести such quantity{amount} of resources which is equaled to the week income of average kingdom. And artefacts? And passages? Anything it is not protected - take, I do not want! Danger is represented only with the ships of the opponent. And of those to be afraid there is especially nothing, as captains on them, as a rule, the same idlers-collectors. Very much the bright example of it{this} is represented in figure 1.

To it many Players dislike water - boredom! Not that on a land - neither to a step without fight, nor day without an adventure.

2. TO " THE SHAME OF FAMILY » IS, THAN TO BRAG.

But it is necessary to tell, that in a Heroic series so was not always. And the most ridiculous, that in this plan with many recognized, as « a shame of family » Heroes of the Sword and Magic 4 pleasantly surprise. Here on whose seas and oceans was as interestingly and dangerously to travel, as well as by a continental part. Water sites of a strategic map directly raged a life - sea animals and plants, jambs of fishes, set of objects - all of them have been perfectly animated and looked "alive". But, not this the most important - in those waters, to the Player was not so simply, on gratis, to collect bonuses. All more or less significant was protected. And if visiting of the thrown galleon-galleys, with their Dead guards, business voluntary here from perfidious attack sea neutral monster there was застрахован nobody.
At that time the seafarer should have army. And then the Player thought twice, on what to it to spend available resources - for construction of fleet or on training of overland army. Whether there is a capture of the sea riches spent for it of means. And it as do not twist, increases complexity and tactical opportunities of Game. To be convinced that the seas in Heroes 4 were not more poorly a land it is possible in figure 2.
Well and that happened when the Hero-seafarer all the same dared to pick up an artefact or resources, it is evidently shown in figure 3.
Fight with the sea monsters, trying to take a vessel of the traveller on boarding did not cause in anybody bewilderment or superfluous questions. Owing to books, films, games we trust, that so sometimes happens.

3. EXPERIENCE OF COMPETITORS.

One more interesting acknowledgement{confirmation} of that sea нейтралы can be interesting and demanded, experience of games-competitors is. So, the vivid example of similar experience, water open spaces Nevendaara, Disciples 1-2 are. Certainly, the seas there cannot brag of the same bright animation and quantity of bonuses, as in Heroes. But here as to sea essences - that they at height. Besides their model of behaviour is very aggressive. Therefore if the Hero of an initial level or the Hero with weak army, has managed to finish a course in the high sea it is possible to tell, that it is doomed. It has not enough chances to survive - figure to 4 that acknowledgement. From different directions it is trapped with danger.
In additives, force and skills of essences of the sea and as their ability to make common cause, using the advantageous parties of each kind of water inhabitants, makes their dangerous even for Heroes with strong army. I ask to pay attention to figure 5 on which just about will begin severe абордажный fight. And it is yet known, who will come out from it the winner. But both after a victory the Player receives experience, and feeling of satisfaction wholly. To miss on sea open spaces to it it is not necessary.

4. SO WHY ALSO IS NOT PRESENT?

Here after all stated, I personally have a natural question - and than, actually Heroes 5 are worse? Really occurrence of neutral sea essences in the seas Ashana would not make sea travel more interestingly? Here give for a minute we shall present, that developers have entered pair-three sea monsters into Game. What would become navigation?

Well, first, the Player would concern to sea campaigns more responsibly. It should основательнее to equip expedition, distributing resources between army of the Hero-seafarer, construction of city and overland forces. It would complicate process of Game, that to domestic Gamers only on a hand.

Secondly, to collect resources, artefacts to acquire the right to take place any passage, or to have an opportunity to leave or descend on coast, to visit island with the Place of Force, the Player should battle, fight, fight, etc. More shortly - to receive, it is necessary to deserve it. Precisely as on a land. What pluss? First of all - EXPERIENCE. I think, many of us, aspiring to reach any skill or a level, exhaust all without exception of enemies on a map and after look is sad on a sea smooth surface and think: - Ou! So much the place vanishes! There would be it any wood, or desert. How many all there could be found and collected. And so - a pool-pool. Only in vain the place on a map borrows…

I think, that if strongly to rummage will be, both thirdly, and fourthly … Not an essence. Let's simply present, that harmless attempt to rescue Shipwrecked Peasant, it has appeared masterly arranged trap. Old KRAKEN has specially left one in alive that in replacements to receive one hundred victims. Look at figure 6. Unless, observing in our favourite Game such stage, we would doubt of a reality of an event?
However, the sea Ashana be populated by developers, the Player for certain would float prepared, and would be to repulse in a condition. Look figure 7.

6. A FEW MARKETING RESEARCHES.

And here, at last, pair useful remarks to which experts in marketing UBI should pay attention. Certainly, it is possible to object - And who I in general such, to give advice{councils} to scientific experts in marketing? I shall answer simply - I the Player, one of many for whom this Game was created.

And so - the first.
Promotion of any sea monsters already for a long time also was successfully executed with film « Pirates of Caribbean sea», and in particular its second part. Film on peak of popularity, that is itscharacters - the Team of seamen-mutants, pirates, Kraken and accompanying Sea Snakes too in favour. As in business of promotion of « Sea ideas » Chronicles Narnia in which there was a place to Mermaids have distinguished Harry Potter and the Cup of fire, with the lake Tritons, and. All films were a success, and characters meeting in them will cause in people only positive emotions.

The second - traditions of Universe Might and Magic. In some parts of a role part of this serial, to the Player there were also Sea Snakes, and some kinds of Tritons. What prevents to use so a rich heritage and in a strategic part of Game?

Well, and the third is, certainly, competition « the Racial question». More precisely its informal, «public» part. Clear business, that results of it, so-called, «popular voting» (which, by the way, here at a forum has suggested to lead Dmitry Estrin), employees NIVAL can not be perceived seriously. Still - at them the favourite authors. I do not argue. And it is absolutely not known - from them somebody watched a bi-monthly marathon of voting. But all the same, experts in marketing should pay attention that the second place in this voting (in which it has been considered more than 100 works) work ABYSS telling about race of sea inhabitants - has borrowed Tritons. And, that is interesting - basically, the voices for it were given{remote} not by Players with the experience which in a tender age have grown fond of Heroes 2, or, at the worst - 3, and now, old and poisonous, the subsequent parts of Game compare all to the brightest, with the very first impressions about Heroes.
On the contrary, the voices for the Chasm, in the basic weight, young Players, for many of which, Heroes 5 - have given the first acquaintance to a serial. They have nothing to compare, and for them the fifth part of Game becomes the standard to which they will compare 6, 7 part of Heroes. They, instead of Players with the experience, become skeleton of admirers of this part. And their recognition - whether is a parameter of popularity?

Generally, quantity sent in NIVAL on competition of works with sea subjects to judge difficultly. But I think, that them nearby 70 from 600. Too a parameter.

So can all the same there are, alongside with other neutral essences, 100 % candidates on settling, to add in Game a little sea neutrals monsters?



Image 1. Sea in the HEROES 5 at present
http://forum.nival.com/rus/attachment.p ... 1157119798

Image 2. Sea in the HEROES 4 — Festival of Life
http://forum.nival.com/rus/attachment.p ... 1157119933

Image 3. Battle at Sea in the HEROES 4
http://forum.nival.com/rus/attachment.p ... 1157119976

Image 4. Sea in the competitor’s game
http://forum.nival.com/rus/attachment.p ... 1157120002

Image 5. Battle in the competitor’s game
http://forum.nival.com/rus/attachment.p ... 1157120084

Image 7. Sea in the HEROES 5 — why not? ;)

http://forum.nival.com/rus/attachment.p ... 1157120115
http://forum.nival.com/rus/attachment.p ... 1157120173
Last edited by Triton_Xaar on 20 Sep 2006, 12:28, edited 2 times in total.

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DaemianLucifer
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Unread postby DaemianLucifer » 18 Sep 2006, 18:28

Vted opion 1.Sea really is boring now(even more than before).And I really like th size of that thing.It looks so magnificent.

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LordErtz
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Unread postby LordErtz » 18 Sep 2006, 18:31

LOL, I love those last 2 pictures.

Yes, sea could definitely use a thing or 2. It's boring and mostly useless. There need to be a few neutral sea creatures otherwise there's no more to going in the ocean than Point A to Point B.


BTW, what is this other game? Looks like it could hold my attention more than HOMM V at this moment.

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Unread postby vhilhu » 18 Sep 2006, 18:36

its disciples II

but tactics in Disciples battles are practically non-excistant, thats one reason why homm has been more popular series

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Unread postby DaemianLucifer » 18 Sep 2006, 18:51

vhilhu wrote:its disciples II

but tactics in Disciples battles are practically non-excistant, thats one reason why homm has been more popular series
But it does have some things that HoMM could really draw from(unit XP,for example).

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Unread postby dragonn » 18 Sep 2006, 18:55

Good idea...

As long as they would've been recruitable...
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Unread postby Triton_Xaar » 18 Sep 2006, 18:57

vhilhu wrote:its disciples II

but tactics in Disciples battles are practically non-excistant, thats one reason why homm has been more popular series
Right you are! competitor game ;)

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Unread postby Arqane » 18 Sep 2006, 18:58

Kraken, very nice. I suppose it's the same in Russian, too.

Heroes is a good series mostly because it did steal some of the best ideas from other games. You can see the influence from many other games in there, with some being very obvious (Warhammer and Magic: The Gathering recently).

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Unread postby Panda Tar » 18 Sep 2006, 19:34

I like encounters on the seas, even more, having quests or things to explore on them too.

I believe having 'sea monster' as a random strong-like foe appearing sometimes randomly on the seas, sometimes on fixed places (those ones would be visible, although the random ones would not). That's based on the fact that they wouldn't surface all the time, catching a boat suddenly, such as a Kraken with tentacles to fight against, or sea serpents breathing something on you, biting, whatever.

Those units would be as strong as the army, to balance a bit, or maybe have fixed HP but with dreading abilities. Higher chances to encounter them on deep water at higher levels, avoinding a new hero to be caught and killed when you need the most. :proud:
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DaemianLucifer
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Unread postby DaemianLucifer » 18 Sep 2006, 20:03

And it will make seamanship a worthier skill.Especially if you add it the option of seeing the beasts beforehand,or avoiding them completely.

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Unread postby vhilhu » 18 Sep 2006, 20:05

i dont like this completely random monster idea... maybe 2 different water: completely safe cyan water and dangerous (with pop-up monsters) dark blue water?

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Unread postby ThunderTitan » 18 Sep 2006, 20:11

Arqane wrote:Heroes is a good series mostly because it did steal some of the best ideas from other games. You can see the influence from many other games in there, with some being very obvious (Warhammer and Magic: The Gathering recently).
*chough* D&D *chough*
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DaemianLucifer
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Unread postby DaemianLucifer » 18 Sep 2006, 20:20

ThunderTitan wrote: *chough* D&D *chough*
Yes,yes,we all know you are excited that you will be playing it online,but you dont have to brag it everywhere :devil:

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Unread postby Panda Tar » 18 Sep 2006, 20:44

vhilhu wrote:i dont like this completely random monster idea... maybe 2 different water: completely safe cyan water and dangerous (with pop-up monsters) dark blue water?
Yes, like that. Also, 'river water' shouldn't allow them to breed. Apply to skill Navigation or else, just like said before to see or not those beasts. As they use a bit of transparent on water, it should do.
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Arqane
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Unread postby Arqane » 18 Sep 2006, 20:46

ThunderTitan wrote:
Arqane wrote:Heroes is a good series mostly because it did steal some of the best ideas from other games. You can see the influence from many other games in there, with some being very obvious (Warhammer and Magic: The Gathering recently).
*chough* D&D *chough*
Well, it's been D&D since the beginning. It's just more recently that it's had such and influence from these other two games :). The magic system has turned more and more from elements into the MTG system, and Warhammer's influence on H5 is huge. Next expansion we're either going to get Chaos Dwarves or Khemri (I'd definitely vote for Khemri, one of my favorite :) ).

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Darkion
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Unread postby Darkion » 18 Sep 2006, 20:47

ThunderTitan wrote: *chough* D&D *chough*
That sounds nasty... kind of like a cough and a choke...heh

Anyway... Voted for sea creatures, I feel that having more to do at sea is always a nice change. That is one of the few things I miss from Homm IV, in previous versions I rarely cared for seafaring maps because there was little to do but look for flotsam, chests or the whirlpool shortcut to wherever.

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Unread postby Triton_Xaar » 18 Sep 2006, 21:15

Arqane wrote:Kraken, very nice. I suppose it's the same in Russian, too.
You are absolutely right! The idea of sea neutral monsters has met with full approval among Russian players.

http://forum.nival.com/rus/showthread.php?t=34506

http://forums.ag.ru/?board=glas&action= ... 64&start=0

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Unread postby Grumpy Old Wizard » 18 Sep 2006, 22:50

Voted option1. We need sea monsters and also some decorations for the water. Several different sea creatures would be nice.

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Unread postby Sir_Toejam » 19 Sep 2006, 02:01

hmm.

why stop at seamonsters?

being an ichthyologist, I'd much rather see a water-borne faction of fishy-folk than another dwarf remake.

bring on the merfolk!

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Unread postby asandir » 19 Sep 2006, 02:09

more things, any things are all to the good i say
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