AI, that bad ?

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.
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AI, that bad ?

Unread postby LarkinVB » 16 Sep 2006, 10:01

I play hotseat (v1.2) with a friend and some AI. We play at heroic level. The AI players are braindead, wandering around with small armies. When they invade our territory they usually forget to take mines and stuff. Sometimes their main hero shows up with some laughable army and is forced to flee. Rinse and repeat until he gets really killed and hands you presents (magic items).

This is taking the fun out of this game for us, we don't want to play humans only. I thought HoMM4 AI was very bad, this one isn't any better.

I heard that Nival planned to continously improve the AI with patches. Is v1.3 AI much better ? There seems to be little hope, just checking the readme. Are there any AI mods ? I can't believe the community is not steaming about this. I really like this game but without a decent AI it is a waste of time.

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Unread postby Campaigner » 16 Sep 2006, 10:32

V.1.2

Seems that people got vastly different opinions about the A.I. Starting to think it's related to which maps you play.

The consensus is that it's challenging because it cheats. It bullrushes people in week 3 or 4 with everything upgraded. If you survive until week 6 or 7 then you will win.

It sounds like you survived the bullrush and now are dealing with scraps.

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Unread postby LarkinVB » 16 Sep 2006, 10:44

Do not remember being rushed at all. Even if this would prove how bad the AI is (cheating and rushing to get a win).

I'm coder of the Dawn of War AI mod and made a small strategic game (www.titansofsteel.de) with AI. I can tell you that the HOMM5 AI is really weak. How hard is it to steal an enemy mine while passing it ? How hard is it to give your main hero a decent army, not just 20% of what is possible ?

The tactical AI is not that bad but the strategic AI is killing the game for me. Sad indeed as it has so much potential.

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Unread postby Campaigner » 16 Sep 2006, 12:10

Hey! Coder for the Dawn of War A.I mod?! I'm impressed! I had to play my very best to win on the second highest difficulty on a 1v1 map. Felt like a 300 apm Korean BroodWar champion :)

How did write that A.I? What program? Was it hard etc.? Interested in this :-D

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Unread postby Romanov77 » 16 Sep 2006, 13:04

LarkinVB wrote:Do not remember being rushed at all. Even if this would prove how bad the AI is (cheating and rushing to get a win).

I'm coder of the Dawn of War AI mod and made a small strategic game (www.titansofsteel.de) with AI. I can tell you that the HOMM5 AI is really weak. How hard is it to steal an enemy mine while passing it ? How hard is it to give your main hero a decent army, not just 20% of what is possible ?

The tactical AI is not that bad but the strategic AI is killing the game for me. Sad indeed as it has so much potential.
Hey larkin!
You have good tastes with games!

You and Thud should really give some tips to nival!
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Unread postby LarkinVB » 16 Sep 2006, 13:12

I haven't explored how moddable HOMM5 AI is. Is there any online info for modding this game ?
Will be interesting to do an AI mod. The game does need one desperatly.

@Campaigner : The DOW AI is moddable using the script language lua. We started early 2005 and now we have some nice AI going. The next expansion for Dawn of War will feature an improved AI interface so we can make it even better.

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Unread postby Campaigner » 16 Sep 2006, 22:52

LarkinVB wrote:I haven't explored how moddable HOMM5 AI is. Is there any online info for modding this game ?
Will be interesting to do an AI mod. The game does need one desperatly.
You mod the game by putting *.pak files in the /data directory. As for A.I I'm not sure. And it's not worth it to post on the official forums since people in charge almost never answer. But create a thread anyway and after some time if you don't get a response from someone in the know then PM Fabrice. He's the producer.
The developers only care about their Russian forums so not worth asking on their english board. However you could get a Russian to ask for you. Mentioning your accomplishments in DoW is a good merit which will hopefully make them take you more seriously.

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Unread postby LarkinVB » 16 Sep 2006, 23:11

Well, if it is that complicated then I have no interest. Relic (company doing Dawn of War) at least gave modders some basic support. They have a developers website with lots of documentation. If Nival is not capable doing this then they should not get support from the community.

Can someone give me the a link how to contact this Fabrice ? I'd like to know his oppinion about improving the AI. I guess a good AI mod (if possible at all) won't hurt their sales.

Our Dawn of War AI mod has gathered a lot of praise so I guess this may open some doors.

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Unread postby Shuyssar » 16 Sep 2006, 23:12

I think the AI is OK!

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Unread postby LarkinVB » 16 Sep 2006, 23:18

Who cares about your thinking when it is obvious that the AI lacks.

Do you want me to make a list of its failures just to convince you ?

If it is ok for you does not mean it is ok for the majority of players.

Seems you are one of Nivals fanboys here. This is fine but don't stop others to improve this game, please.

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Unread postby Shuyssar » 16 Sep 2006, 23:20

Ok. No need to become rude! :disagree:

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Unread postby ThunderTitan » 16 Sep 2006, 23:22

LarkinVB wrote: Do you want me to make a list of its failures just to convince you ?
I'd actualy like to see a list. Might come in handy.
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Unread postby LarkinVB » 16 Sep 2006, 23:25

If truth is rude for then you have the choice to accept.

Saying "the AI is OK for me" is of no help in a situation where lots of other players will disagree. I'm one of them and I have proof.

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Unread postby LarkinVB » 16 Sep 2006, 23:30

ThunderTitan wrote:
LarkinVB wrote: Do you want me to make a list of its failures just to convince you ?
I'd actualy like to see a list. Might come in handy.
Read my top post. There is a lot more. A non cheating AI as it is will fail miserably against any mediocre player (that I am).

Strange that players who never coded some AI are so sure that everything is fine as it is. It is not.

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Unread postby ThunderTitan » 16 Sep 2006, 23:34

LarkinVB wrote: Strange that players who never coded some AI are so sure that everything is fine as it is. It is not.
For some ppl the sHINY is enough. But someone should make a comprehensive list of the crp it does, i just don't feel like putting myself through that, i'm currently trying to trick someone into it. ;)
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Unread postby LarkinVB » 16 Sep 2006, 23:39

I don't just want to make a list as it is unlikely that Nival will fix it. I want to fix it on my own and like to get Nival to give me some basic support.

This is of course assuming that their AI is moddable at all. Some games have a good AI interface with some scripting language, others have their AI hardcoded. Hope Nival falls into the first category.

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Unread postby ThunderTitan » 16 Sep 2006, 23:44

LarkinVB wrote:I don't just want to make a list as it is unlikely that Nival will fix it.
Oh, i never thought they would, i just wanted some concrete ammunition. Coz concrete really hurts when it hits you. :devil:
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Unread postby Campaigner » 16 Sep 2006, 23:44

LarkinVB: I just remembered that the A.I was done by Ubisoft (the publisher). The producer mentioned that.

You can reach him by PMing him. His name here is Muaddib But alot of newbies bother him all the time so he may think that your PM is just one of the other 40 he gets every week so either a thread in the official forum or getting a fansite admin to talk for ya would maybe be better.

A thread in the official forum with your merits in it will surely get alot of people interested so perhaps their community manager will take note. (I would still PM the producer no matter what though).
Last edited by Campaigner on 16 Sep 2006, 23:50, edited 2 times in total.

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Unread postby ThunderTitan » 16 Sep 2006, 23:47

Campaigner wrote: His name here is Fabrice
No, he goes under Muad'dib over here. His avatar is a Pickachu. But going through a mod will prob be simpler.
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Unread postby LarkinVB » 16 Sep 2006, 23:48

Well then, please give me a link to their official forum. Thanks for your interest and support. I'd like to contact some official or half-official (forum moderator with the power to get their ear).


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