1.3 Academy

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.
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Sir_Toejam
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Unread postby Sir_Toejam » 23 Sep 2006, 05:29

Most wizards will have that by L10 (week 3).
not bloody likely.

level 10 wizard at best will likely have around 9 knowledge (base).

you would have to hope for 2 artis that boost knowledge 3 or more, or a lot of powerups on the map.

9 knowledge is only 2 health, 2 defense, 1 luck... as far as minartifacts are concerned.

just saying I think you are grossly overestimating what the typical wizard is gonna look like at week 3.

plus, of course, if you want to add more than one attribute to an artifact, it's quite costly.

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Arqane
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Unread postby Arqane » 23 Sep 2006, 06:40

OK, well granted I was going with my usual setup of different wizards, and I usually have Enlightenment. Although by the end of week 3, I'm often above 15 knowledge with at least one of my heros.

Everyone's going to have a different thought on how exactly they want the faction. I was just pointing out that considering the racial ability would be good to do with everything else. If Necromancy wasn't taken into account, Necromancer's other creatures might have been far too powerful along with all the skeleton archers.

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Unread postby sylvanllewelyn » 23 Sep 2006, 08:57

I have always felt Academy as clearly weaker than the other five factions anyway. Now I will stop picking "random town" just so I won't risk ending up with that town.

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Grumpy Old Wizard
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Unread postby Grumpy Old Wizard » 23 Sep 2006, 11:31

Sir_Toejam wrote:
just saying I think you are grossly overestimating what the typical wizard is gonna look like at week 3.
Plus it will be a *lot* longer than 3 weeks before he can make creature artifacts unless the map has resources laying on every map square.

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Frodo: "I wish the ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened."
Gandalf: "So do all who live to see such times but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."

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Sir_Toejam
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Unread postby Sir_Toejam » 23 Sep 2006, 11:45

I have always felt Academy as clearly weaker than the other five factions anyway. Now I will stop picking "random town" just so I won't risk ending up with that town.
well, that's what were trying to fix here, so if you have specific (very) suggestions as to what would make the faction more appealing to you, post away.

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Unread postby okrane » 23 Sep 2006, 14:44

ok... so let's start make a list of what is in order to balance Academy and then someone make a little mod.

Here's what I believe it should be done:

- M Gremlins should heal infinitely but at a reduced power.
- Reduce resource cost of some buidings: Mage Tower -5 sulphur, also Raksasa's building cost should be reduced.
- created artifact power should increase with heroes' knowledge... you shouldn't have to rebuild the same artifact over and over again just to benefit from knowledge increase.
- if a stack dies wearing an artifact hero gets back that artifact.

What do you think? anything else?

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Cyrox
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Unread postby Cyrox » 25 Sep 2006, 16:20

hey i just played a game on 1.3 and I felt that academy was incredibly weak..on hard..it was rather difficult to get the archmage upgrade or and those durable troops..plus academy's units are already so weak..and expensive..

Gosh..I guess I wont be playing academy any more. It used to be playable for me.

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Unread postby Kilop » 25 Sep 2006, 17:03

created artifact power should increase with heroes' knowledge... you shouldn't have to rebuild the same artifact over and over again just to benefit from knowledge increase.
already he case...
someone is bashing without first trying?
hope not ;|
I support(ed?) Nival... flame on !!!
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Sir_Toejam
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Unread postby Sir_Toejam » 26 Sep 2006, 12:15

I think he means that the miniartifacts should "autolevel" as your hero gains knowledge, so you don't have to return to town to remake them.

It's an interesting idea, but I haven't a clue how to mod that one.

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Unread postby ThunderTitan » 26 Sep 2006, 12:49

Kilop wrote: already he case...
someone is bashing without first trying?
hope not
Somebody isn't reading stuff carefully enough? I hope not. :devil:

Those artifact changes would make Artificer less resource demanding.
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Sir_Toejam
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Unread postby Sir_Toejam » 26 Sep 2006, 13:37

Those artifact changes would make Artificer less resource demanding.
wait... since you recover exactly what you put into an artifact when you destroy it, and artifacts cost the same no matter what level your knowledge is at, how would this make it less resource demanding?

I must be missing something.

AFAICT, the only thing that change would do is make it so you don't have to bounce back to town to improve your artifacts every time you gain a bit of knowledge.

similarly, it always irritated the he11 outta me to have to update the avenger favored enemy by bouncing back to town all the time.

I have another solution that might be easier to implement for both things:

new placeable map objects:

a forge for the artificer, and an avenger's guild for the avenger.

then you could place these as useable objects on maps to make for less bouncing.

it wouldn't be a perfect solution, but it would help, i think.

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Unread postby Grumpy Old Wizard » 26 Sep 2006, 13:50

Adventure buildings would be helpful to the wizard and ranger.

If you could do it with a spell that would be even better.

The spell could have a negative effect so the player wouldn't make artifacts or change racial enemies on the fly every day. Such an effect could be something like costing the player all movement points for the day or costing gold or whatever.

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Gandalf: "So do all who live to see such times but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."

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Unread postby Sir_Toejam » 26 Sep 2006, 14:15

If you could do it with a spell that would be even better.
hmm, yes it would at that.

It's worth looking into to see if I can figure out how to make that work. the idea would be trying to figure out how to get a spell to activate a building's ability.

if I can make that work, we might be able to add back some old spells from previous homms i liked, like the one that boosts morale for your entire army, or luck.

sounds like my project for tommorrow, along with playing with academy tweaks.

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Unread postby ThunderTitan » 26 Sep 2006, 16:16

Sir_Toejam wrote:
Those artifact changes would make Artificer less resource demanding.
wait... since you recover exactly what you put into an artifact when you destroy it, and artifacts cost the same no matter what level your knowledge is at, how would this make it less resource demanding?
Ups... right, i was thinking about the # of bonuses. But the thing about getting it back after the creature dies is still valid.

So, guess that makes them not getting better without going to town rather pointless.
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Unread postby sylvanllewelyn » 27 Sep 2006, 14:44

By the time you have 7 stacks of troops, if it lasts that long, you won't have much resources left. If you do, I'd much rather build one artifact for each stack than 3 artifacts for one stack. Honestly, I've never "used" artificer on expert level. In fact, I rarely bother with artificer or even Academy in general.

I really think mini-artifacts should be reduced in cost for every level of artificer skills, rather than building up an artifact. You don't have that many resources, ever. The only artifact that I really bother with is magic resistance anyway.

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Unread postby Kilop » 27 Sep 2006, 14:59

In fact, I rarely bother with artificer or even Academy in general.
sooo why are you saying this town is crap ? Hard to master indeed.
The only artifact that I really bother with is magic resistance anyway.
right cause getting gremlins with 13 health each is useless...
Artefacts make academy army the strongest at the end of the game, problem is that you have to reach the end of the game... with somewhat of an army anyway ...
I support(ed?) Nival... flame on !!!
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Unread postby Jolly Joker » 27 Sep 2006, 15:04

Again, I think that people are missing important points or failing to register things.
If you build a mini-artifact the resources are not lost; you can always dismantle the artifact again and get the resources back!
To make an extreme point here: you can waste all resources on artifacts, equipping your troops, go fight an especially nasty stack of neutrals with the benefit of those artefacts, go back to town, dismantle them and build dwellings with them.
This looks like a bit of legwork, but is a completely legal and viable tactic.

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Unread postby ThunderTitan » 27 Sep 2006, 15:53

And if one of your stacks die?!
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Unread postby Jolly Joker » 27 Sep 2006, 16:32

Go back to the hero. Same as when merging two stacks with an arti each. They just don't show in the inventory until you reach a town with an Arcane Forge.

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Unread postby Grumpy Old Wizard » 27 Sep 2006, 16:46

Maybe the whole creature artifact thing needs to be scraped and just give the wizard some buffing spells that can be cast from the adventure map instead.

The buffing spells would be learned from a mage guild addition that the wizard builds instead of the arcane forge.

Instead of artificer the wizard would have a new skill. I don't know, call it Spellcraft, Spell Lore, Spell Weave, or whatever.

That would let the wizard use his racial ability from the start of the game.

The buffs could increase in power, duration, and difficulty to dispel with the knowledge level of the wizard. The new skill tiers make it possible for the wizard to buff the stack with 1,2,3, or 4(the ultimate mastery) spell effects.

The new spells would cost mana, same as any other spell.

Of course I'm only dreaming about such a radical change.

GOW
Frodo: "I wish the ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened."
Gandalf: "So do all who live to see such times but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."


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