Why is no one OUTRAGED with the artifact situation?

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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Ketzal
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Postby Ketzal » Aug 11 2006, 15:53

With 4 clovers, who needs the luck skill :D

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Lady Farquad
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Postby Lady Farquad » Aug 11 2006, 16:04

I was asking for at least 1 misc slot. I hate having a damn clover in the place of a shield, it doesnt seem right. 1 or 2 slots max would be excellent.
I would like +defense AND +luck, they're not opposite as to force us to decide wich one to use at a given moment
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Ketzal
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Postby Ketzal » Aug 11 2006, 16:08

I was asking for at least 1 misc slot. I hate having a damn clover in the place of a shield, it doesnt seem right. 1 or 2 slots max would be excellent.
I would like +defense AND +luck, they're not opposite as to force us to decide wich one to use at a given moment
You can get +deffense and +luck by getting the Golden Horseshoe (+2 luck) with any of the +deffense shields.

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Lady Farquad
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Postby Lady Farquad » Aug 11 2006, 17:20

We know that! The point is having to choose from 2 different purpose artifacts on the same slot, and the overall artifact system.
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Caradoc
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Postby Caradoc » Aug 11 2006, 18:35

I looked into modding up some more artifacts, but it does not seem possible, sorry to say.

(On the map I'm playing, the only artifacts I have are six pair of those green boots. Sheesh.)
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Alamar
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Postby Alamar » Aug 12 2006, 10:58

OBSERVATION FROM SOMEONE ON THE UBI BOARDS THAT MADE ME THINK (yeah I stole his idea) ...

There are some artifacts on the maps that I play (MP maps) that I always see and others that I never see.

For example I rarely see:
1. Sword of Might
2. All Seeing Crown

I pretty much never see:
1. Unicorn Bow
2. Dragon Flame Tongue
3. Staff of the Netherworld
4. Necromancer's Helm
5. Helm of Chaos
6. Tunic of the Carved Flesh
7. Boots of Levitation
8. Sandals of the Blessed
9. Cloak of Sylvanna
10. Phoenix Feather Capte
11. Cloak of Death's Shadow
12. Sandro's Cloak
13. Wings of the Angel
14. Ring of the Unrepentant
15. Ring of Caution
16. Ring of Vitality
17. Pendant of Conflux

So on the maps that I play frequently I suspect as many as 15-20 artifacts are banned on the map. That cuts down on the artifacts that I see frequently by about 30%.

If those extra artifacts weren't basically banned from the maps that I play I'd certainly "feel" that there were a lot more artifacts in the game!!

[Note I usally end up with so many Helms of the Dwarven Kings, Armor of the Forgotten Heroes, Cuirasses of the Dwarven Kings, Greaves of the Dwarven Kings, etc. that I will hire a hero to dump my "junk" onto so there is NO SHORTAGE of artifacts of various levels that I find ....]

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Gaidal Cain
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Postby Gaidal Cain » Aug 12 2006, 13:08

7. Boots of Levitation
11. Cloak of Death's Shadow
13. Wings of the Angel
14. Ring of the Unrepentant
These four won't appear unless the mapmakers place them, for balance reasons or whatnot. (not 100% sure about the cloak, but the others won't).
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anonymous

Postby anonymous » Aug 12 2006, 17:29

Well considering that I havent even seen half of the artifacts you listed, I guess its pretty clear that the problem isnt the number (not to say that I still wouldnt like a few more) but that we only see the same ones over and over, it seems this should be easy to adjust.

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theGryphon
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Postby theGryphon » Aug 12 2006, 17:52

Fabrice has told that we wouldn't have that many artifacts as before. I said to myself, fine. But then they did not decrease the number of appearences of random artifacts on maps. That's why we're getting the same artifacts over and over. I think they and future mapmakers should really be cautious about placing random artifacts. In fact I think they better get rid of the randomness and place each of them explicitly.
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Alamar
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Postby Alamar » Aug 13 2006, 1:58

For balance reasons I was thinking the same as you ... I might have to hand place almost all of my artifacts. On some maps this will work fine but on other maps it will certainly not be something that I'd want to do if I could get away with it.

@GC: You're right about the game-breaking nature of a LOT of the artifacts that I listed. What I wanted to point out is saying that we have 70 artifacts available isn't the whole story esp. if most of those artifacts can't be used in a "random" nature on MP maps.

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soupnazii
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Postby soupnazii » Aug 13 2006, 16:19

so there are two solutions to this problem:
1: get rid of random artifacts and put out each one explicitly
2: just make more artifacts and save every mapmaker a whole lot of time and misery.

personally im in favor of option 2.
Last edited by soupnazii on Aug 13 2006, 17:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Alamar
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Postby Alamar » Aug 13 2006, 16:50

Another solution, possibly not a good solution, would be to make sure that no single artifact is game breaking therefore you could allow random artifacts from a larger pool.

Between that and having H5 try to reduce the duplicates a little as outlined earlier you could come to a nicer solution than we have now.

Note: More artifacts are good as long as they are reasonably distinct and serve a purpose.

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soupnazii
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Postby soupnazii » Aug 13 2006, 17:24

im sure they can come up with at least 30 more artifacts that are distinct and serve a purpose.

I think the map editor should allow a player to creat his own unique artifacts. sort of like the artificer with the academy: they have a bunch of different icons. you choose what slot. you put in the abilities. the computer classifies it as relic or whatever and then "upgrades" the icon accordingly. that way they can get rid of "super-artifacts", like the angel wings, and let unique maps have their own unique artifacts. it will make much more diversity andbe nice anyway.

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Postby asandir » Aug 14 2006, 3:01

yeah, i'm not too fussed with the limited amount and strength of the artifacts either, although there have been several other issues ahead of this on my complaint list

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Ketzal
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Postby Ketzal » Aug 17 2006, 15:07

I think the map editor should allow a player to creat his own unique artifacts. sort of like the artificer with the academy: they have a bunch of different icons. you choose what slot. you put in the abilities. the computer classifies it as relic or whatever and then "upgrades" the icon accordingly. that way they can get rid of "super-artifacts", like the angel wings, and let unique maps have their own unique artifacts. it will make much more diversity andbe nice anyway.
While I agree that mapmakers should be able to create their own artifacts, I disagree that the existing relics should be removed from the game. A good mapmaker can make good use of some of these relics to drive story (as in the campaigns) and to make maps more interesting.

I must admit that the relics are better suited for single player maps where balance is much more easily controlled via story.


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