Guys, give UBI a breath...

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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DaemianLucifer
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Postby DaemianLucifer » Aug 2 2006, 14:31

:applause: to Ethric.And now the argumentative part of my post :D

Sir_Toejam wrote:-new skills
-totally new way skills interact
-feats (not the same as skills)
-new and modified creatures
-mostly new artifacts
-dynamic battle mode
-new spells and empowered spells
-elemental chaining, hellfire, etc.
-several other things I'm sure I'm forgettting..


Sure,the skill system is nice.One of the rare things that needs polishing instead of fixing.However,there are no trully new spells,and some spells are useless.After HIV's spell system,its a big disappointing.New creatures?There is only one really new creature,and thats the succubi.Rakshasa is just a naga with legs,and the rest are modifications of the previous ones.Though there are some interesting creature abilities.

Sir_Toejam wrote:and the major thing:

It's no longer 2D sprite based graphics! It's a totally new, fully 3D engine, with zoom and rotate and slide, and that alone is a huge undertaking.


Bah,so what if its 3D?The graphics of 2D HII and HIII was far better.Just look at creature evolutions.As for the camera,it is pretty bad.Play myth,and youll see why I say this.

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Postby mr.hackcrag » Aug 2 2006, 14:39

Nicely put Ethric. :)

Thankfully, I never bought H5. I played it at my friends house, and we both think it's an abomination mostly because it's very obvious that the developers didn't bother to finish making the game.

And now, from what I hear around this forum, they're incapable of making the game complete through patches. I can't seem to shake the feeling that this is just like the H4 trauma all over again.

It's a damn shame that for the third consecutive homm title, it's going to be the fans once again who pull H5 out of gutter through the map editor and mods. (Although, I thought H3 was originally a good game, WoG just made it more interesting.)

These people are going to spend their time and energy to do the developers job for them, simply out of passion for their favorite series. The fans seem to care more about making a good game than the developers. Which is why it's even more insulting that they have ignored fans so much. (Though this is not surprising, since in capitalism, it always boils down to the "bottom line.")

As for H3 vs H5? I don't think H5 is anything like H3, because I still find H3 enjoyable, where as H5 is unbearable. Ideally, they should have took inspiration from ALL homm games, because they all had innovative ideas.

I wholeheartedly agree with DL and TT. And from the posts that I have seen, they have provided far more contributions of ideas than anyone else I've noticed who just praise H5 blindly.

I'm very happy for those who like the game and find it enjoyable. But I don't understand why you are going through so much trouble to confront those of us who don't like it. I'm not sure if this is true, but I thought there was an ignore button if you'd rather not see DL and TT posts.

Maybe it's just because I have very high standards with video games. I'm the type of person who might buy only one excellent game a year. So I'm not satisfied that my favorite series has turned into an average game, which combined with so many bugs, has turned it into a below average game.

EDIT: DL, the succubi is just a modification of the magog. It's not really a new creature. So that makes zero truly "new creatures." Although, I'd have to check to be sure of that, I could be wrong.
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Postby Warlock » Aug 2 2006, 14:42

I have to say, I agree with Oliver. At this point I have just started ignoring all the criticism posts because it's not worth the effort. If I try to argue that I don't agree I get accused of being an Ubi employee or something. It's just not worth it.

And I also definately agree - it's not like this game does not have any problems and is absolutely perfect. It's not, by far. There are a lot of areas that need improvement, though I honestly think most are minor at best (the Map Editor being the one major exception - hopefully 1.3 will not take as long as 1.2 did... I think it's a good sign that they are at least already testing the editor though). And it's not like Ubisoft said "Sorry, no more patches. We're done." They are working on them. And what I always said is, if you're not happy with the state of the game right now, go play something else and come back after another patch or two. It's not like HoMMV is the only game in existance.

Personally though, I'm still having fun with the game. I just restarted the campaign on Heroic and it's a lot more fun the second time through when I actually know what the heck I'm doing (I was basically guessing on skills and stuff at least for the first few factions - now I'm going for the Ultimate on Isabel :D). I've been playing some of the scenarios too and those are fun. So there is still playablity in this game, for me at least.

But my main issue is with the people who argue for the sake of arguing - who claim the game is crap and there is nothing good about it. That, or people who harp on the same subject in *EVERY* post they make (i.e. "OMG UBI WHERE IS MY MAP EDITOR!!!! YOU LIED TO US!!" etc etc). Those types of things tend to bug the everliving crap out of me.

So yeah, I agree with the need to be more positive. Especially since it's not like we havn't heard the negatives a million times already. Bringing them up yet again is not going to fix them any faster.

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Postby Omega_Destroyer » Aug 2 2006, 14:51

Warlock wrote:So yeah, I agree with the need to be more positive. Especially since it's not like we havn't heard the negatives a million times already. Bringing them up yet again is not going to fix them any faster.


Nicely put Warlock. No need to beat a dead-horse. I've said it once and I'll say it again, I'm just happy there is another Heroes of Might and Magic game. And that is one major positive aspect about the game for me.

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Postby mr.hackcrag » Aug 2 2006, 14:55

Warlock wrote:So yeah, I agree with the need to be more positive. Especially since it's not like we havn't heard the negatives a million times already. Bringing them up yet again is not going to fix them any faster.


People have consistantly praised the game, even those who don't like it.

The reason you're not seeing so much positive things about it is because there is only three predominantly good things about the game: skill system, initiative system, and... I think there is another one, but I seem to have forgot it at the moment. As you can see, there is not much too praise. Compare that with the dozens of bad things about it.

It's only natural to mention the bad things so they get fixed. But you're right, considering the two patches so far, it doesn't seem like talking about the problems is going to get them fixed any faster.

EDIT: Damn, with this post, I've lost my "long nose" status. :mad:
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Postby Omega_Destroyer » Aug 2 2006, 15:00

On a quick note, despite how negative or argumentative some posts may appear, this board is still the most professional of the various boards I've seen. Very rarely do you find anybody who resorts to personal attacks on this board. It's surprising how petty some people are on other boards. I guess what I'm trying to say, is this board and its memebers rock. So go us.
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Postby Kalah » Aug 2 2006, 15:09

Yup. :proudirule:

I was just over in the official forum, and use of bad language is abundant. Here, we simply try to stay on the point without using strong language.
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Postby mr.hackcrag » Aug 2 2006, 15:11

Absolutely true! :D This is by far the most mature and friendly forum I've ever seen. I'm happy to be part of the community.

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Postby DaemianLucifer » Aug 2 2006, 15:24

And this forum would be an excelent argument against games destroying our youth :D

mr.hackcrag wrote:I'm not sure if this is true, but I thought there was an ignore button if you'd rather not see DL and TT posts.


Theres not :devious:

mr.hackcrag wrote:EDIT: DL, the succubi is just a modification of the magog. It's not really a new creature. So that makes zero truly "new creatures." Although, I'd have to check to be sure of that, I could be wrong.


But succubus is so hot!I jump like a horny...err,I mean horned demon whenever there are succubi on the screen :devil:

mr.hackcrag wrote:The reason you're not seeing so much positive things about it is because there is only three predominantly good things about the game: skill system, initiative system, and... I think there is another one, but I seem to have forgot it at the moment.


The succubus!Its the succubus!! :D
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Postby Warlock » Aug 2 2006, 15:34

Omega_Destroyer wrote:On a quick note, despite how negative or argumentative some posts may appear, this board is still the most professional of the various boards I've seen. Very rarely do you find anybody who resorts to personal attacks on this board. It's surprising how petty some people are on other boards. I guess what I'm trying to say, is this board and its memebers rock. So go us.


Yeah, my post was mainly directed towards people in the official boards who can get quite annoying. These boards are actually pretty good in regards to actual whining (vs. constructive criticism).

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Postby mr.hackcrag » Aug 2 2006, 15:45

DaemianLucifer wrote:
mr.hackcrag wrote:EDIT: DL, the succubi is just a modification of the magog. It's not really a new creature. So that makes zero truly "new creatures." Although, I'd have to check to be sure of that, I could be wrong.


But succubus is so hot!I jump like a horny...err,I mean horned demon whenever there are succubi on the screen :devil:


Yeah... those hairy goat legs are very attractive. Hmm... I wonder what would happen if an effreet like DL and a succubus had a child...

mr.hackcrag wrote:The reason you're not seeing so much positive things about it is because there is only three predominantly good things about the game: skill system, initiative system, and... I think there is another one, but I seem to have forgot it at the moment.


The succubus!Its the succubus!! :D[/quote]

Uh oh, I must be under a charm spell. As I've mentioned before, could someone please cast dispel or cure on me. I'd do it myself, but I forgot to buy a spell book. (As usual.)

Edit: Aargh, I never can seem to get the quotes to appear the right way! :mad:
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Postby Omega_Destroyer » Aug 2 2006, 15:47

I stopped going to the official boards a long time ago as well. If you really want petty and unconstructive, try posting on GameFAQs. Like I said, boards like that make me appreciate this one even more-so. Heck, I don't even mind DL's weird fascination with succubi that much. :D

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Postby Ethric » Aug 2 2006, 16:41

Warlock wrote:So yeah, I agree with the need to be more positive. Especially since it's not like we havn't heard the negatives a million times already. Bringing them up yet again is not going to fix them any faster.


On the other hand, if you want to be heard you often have to complain often and loudly. And if you feel those you aim the complaint at isn't listening, it seems illogical to stop as long as you still care to see your complaint taken care of. I would complain a lot more about a variety of aspects with H5, if I had still cared enough about the game to do so. Yet those who do care, and think there is still hope for the game if only some things could be changed, will I assume keep at it until they get what they want or give up.
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Postby Warlock » Aug 2 2006, 18:31

You think they don't know the Map Editor isn't out yet? Or about most of the other bugs that get mentioned over and over and over and over? It's true they have poor communication, but that doesn't mean they are not reading the boards and don't know about the problems. Repeating something 50 other people have already said accomplishes nothing.

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Postby Kalah » Aug 2 2006, 18:41

Well, at least if people keep voicing their opinions as to what measures need to be taken first (which bugs to prioritize etc.), they may do as the people want and get to the most wanted fixes first.

Obviously, Ubi have realized some time ago that the fans are anxious to get their hands on the editor. They are no doubt working on that one. But personally - and I believe this is a view voiced by members in several forums - I would like a good editor rather than having it released right away. If it's good, I can wait.
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Postby Ethric » Aug 2 2006, 19:05

Warlock wrote:Repeating something 50 other people have already said accomplishes nothing.


Oh but it does. It emphasises that what is being repeated is important to many people. 1 persons view usually isn't worth much. If only 1 person had said that starforce is not to his liking and that he wouldn't buy the game with it, I think there's a good chance the game would have shipped with starforce.

And Kalah, there are some unreasonable people that feel that yes the editor should be good, but it should also have been available at release ;) The game isn't really complete without it.
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Postby Kalah » Aug 2 2006, 19:50

Sure, but the arguments for availability of an editor at release are so... well, lame. People are pulling out all sorts of analogies.. "would you buy a car if the brakes were to be installed later?" - come on - it's a game, not a bloody SUV! And the map editor is a program designed to enable anyone to build new scenarios to go with the game; a good car-analogy would be releasing a manual on how to fix your car so it can do other things than what it could when you bought it. I know of no other industry doing this. In fact, I'd consider it normal if the fans had to make the editor themselves...
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Postby Ethric » Aug 2 2006, 20:32

There is no need for any anologies: people are bored with the maps released with the game. Ubi adds to the frustration by "releasing" old maps pretending they're new. If the editor had been released with the game, people would be making lots of maps by now and there would be one less complaint: the lack of maps. And that's a pretty big complaint too.

It's got nothing to do with cars... but if you want a car-analogy: would you buy a car that could only be driven on certain ways? That would limit it's usefulness somewhat, (nearly) the same way a heroes game with a limited number of maps is of limited usefullness.
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Postby Warlock » Aug 2 2006, 20:33

Kalah wrote:But personally - and I believe this is a view voiced by members in several forums - I would like a good editor rather than having it released right away. If it's good, I can wait.


Definately. I mean, even something like the HoMM3 editor I found a bit cumbersome. I could use it, but making a map with it was fairly tedious (especially the whole "everything is a doodad" type deal where you had to place each group of trees and mountains individually, etc). If they can really make the editor user friendly, it's definately worth waiting for.

Ethric wrote:It's got nothing to do with cars... but if you want a car-analogy: would you buy a car that could only be driven on certain ways? That would limit it's usefulness somewhat, (nearly) the same way a heroes game with a limited number of maps is of limited usefullness.


That's not really accurate. You *can't* drive a car everywhere. You can't drive it across the ocean for example, or up a cliff, or whatever. You are limited by roads. And there are other limiting factors like distance and gasoline. You can only drive a car in places that are accessable to you, just like right now you can only play the game in maps that are accessable to you.
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Postby DaemianLucifer » Aug 2 2006, 20:34

Kalah wrote:Sure, but the arguments for availability of an editor at release are so... well, lame. People are pulling out all sorts of analogies.. "would you buy a car if the brakes were to be installed later?" - come on - it's a game, not a bloody SUV! And the map editor is a program designed to enable anyone to build new scenarios to go with the game; a good car-analogy would be releasing a manual on how to fix your car so it can do other things than what it could when you bought it. I know of no other industry doing this. In fact, I'd consider it normal if the fans had to make the editor themselves...


Interesting how this argument is used here,yet when it comes to piracy vs. stealing its somehow overlooked.

Anyway,the editor shouldve been there at the release,however the game shouldve been released just now,or even in august.


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