To Ubi, Nival and to the fans of the game

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.
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unreal_az
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To Ubi, Nival and to the fans of the game

Unread postby unreal_az » 28 Jul 2006, 11:13

This post is dedicated to Ubi,Nival and to the fans of the game.

To Ubi and Nival:
The Heroes of Might and Magic series have always been a great way to spend time, gather with friends to play in lan, hotseat or online and have fun.
Most of us started playing Heroes since the 2-nd game and must say that we've greatly enjoyed it. Heroes 3 was a huge improvement both in gameplay and was also the crossover from a cartoonic style to a more realistic style (of course as real as a fantasy game can be). Heroes4 was something new. Some enjoyed it, some not.
Now, since Heroes 5 is out we are playing it each his own style. Some have started with the campaings and found this to be the best part of the game. Others like to play the game on custom maps and perhaps the biggest percentage online.
Unfortunatelly not all of us was were so lucky and here is a thread. http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/ ... 9991001764.
The problem is that there are still quite a few people that has real issues and we know of this cause these people posted on the boards about it. A lot of them are expecting their problem to be solved in a patch.
With this i've described the 1st problem of the game: The technical problems.
The 1.2 patch was suposed to fix the multiplayer. It didn't. People want to enjoy the new adiditions to the game the duels and the ghost mode. Unfortunately they can't due to the multiplayer issues like can't connect to ubi, de-sycn, can't connect to each other, turns hanging on a certain player turn etc. These issues still remain after 1.2 and the multiplayer is still a very concerning problem.

Another issue the people are having is with the AI. Some say it's not good and such. My opinion on it is that it is too impulsive. By this i mean it comes to quickly for you and sometimes on the road leaves stuff like artifacts and the likes lying even though it killed the guarding creatures etc. I really think is that the motto of Heroes games is build, expand, conquer - in this order. It seems the AI does the conquering part way to soon, but on the other hand it seems to always have resources for his troops and buildings.Even though it can aford all troops it still uses the old heroes startegy with multiple heroes instead of massing on one.

Strongly related to the AI is the map editor and this is due to the option to allow players and map creators to enclose the AI. Some of the greatest single player maps in the previous series have been done with the help of the editor by not allowing the computer to move around too much, but still pose a great threat. The multiplayer maps need a lot of attention to be ballanced due to the fact that not each race can develop the same in troops and heroes. There are lots of factors that a map creator has to take into consideration before creating any type of map. Again in Heroes 5 the most important thing when it comes to maps it's missing - The Editor.
So to sum up all the issues should be adressed:

-Technical issues
-Multiplayer
-AI
-Editor

If the developers manage to adress all of them in good time this game will be the greatest of them all. We all have been promised so far, much more then it was delievered and this is upseting people more and more and pushing them away from the game.
From my knowledge the patches are suposed to fix problems not add new ones. Here http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/ ... 7481076464 is a thread with the latest added bugs.
We don't want all of them to be solved in one week cause we know that's not possible but at least news on what's beeing fixed at this time would ease the spirits and make people more understanding.
A official thread with known issues that are to be adressed in future patches would aslo be good so users know about them and try to avoid them untill those are fixed.
A lot of fans also think the patching system isn't too good at this moment. More patches at smaller time-frames would be great even though that would mean less fixes/patch. Small issues that do not affect the game in general can easily be fixed in a small patch. This will give the fans a continuos feeling of the game being improved instead of having to wait for months in hope of a fix to even the smallest things.
Many other things were promised but never delivered like the 10 maps and the duel customization. Things like these make people turn away from the game.
We are waiting on a official response on the state of things and hope our word gets heard.

To the fans:
This thread is not for whining or for flaming. If any of you plan to do that i suggest you don't even post. I am really looking forward on your opinion about the 4 major things to be solved.
I hope you can keep your cool and give the devs the time to respond.

Edit:PM Part removed.

This post got deleted on the official forum due to the pm's.
For now i won't post it with the pm. I'm expecting a official response on the matter.

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Unread postby PhoenixReborn » 28 Jul 2006, 12:26

Well according to my multiplayer poll half the people who voted didn't care about multiplayer. Of the remaining votes only 20% thought multiplayer didn't function well. Admittedly this is out of 20 votes but I think it's clear that celestial heavens forum members don't care much about multiplayer.

I've found singleplayer satisfying. After playing extensively on the multiplayer maps I'm breezing through the campaign now. I find it fun.

I agree that patches shouldn't cause new bugs but at least they are patching instead of disappearing altogether.

The editor is coming in 1.3. You know this. I don't see what the cause for concern is?

I also doubt that ubisoft or nival would post in this forum. Why not post on their own forums? They rarely do that and I see no reason for nival to post anywhere in english.

Still, I applaud your concern for the game. On a technical note I'm frustrated that the game can get slow and laggy even on an above spec machine.

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Unread postby Kalah » 28 Jul 2006, 13:23

I too find single player "satisfying". It doesn't blow me away. I don't play MP over the web - just hotseat. My observation there is that you need a low difficulty setting to avoid being rushed by a cheating AI player.

I expect the editor to have a profound impact on the game; there are literally hundreds of talented mapmakers out there, and I think that as long as the editor is good, the maps added to the game will enhance the playing experience tenfold.
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Unread postby Alamar » 28 Jul 2006, 13:52

On your 4 issues they certainly seem to be the big ones.

As much as I whine about the game I believe that "bugs" will be taken care of ; Multiplayer does seem to be highly important to UBI & Nival so that will be taken care of ; the map editor is coming.

The only area that I'm concerned about getting fixed is the AI BUT I've already noticed a huge difference in the AI behaviour on heroic difficulty with this patch ... it seems substantially less agressive than it was. I won't go into boring details but [unless I'm seeing a fluke] they are also trying to do something to tweak AI behaviour.

I'm not giving up hope yet and I think that in the next 6 months we'll see a least a few patches addressing these things.

I have said for a long time that if they fix bugs, MP stability, map editor, RMG, AI, larger variety of maps, more maps, documentation, etc. then this will be [technically] the best HoMM ever.

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Unread postby Sikon » 28 Jul 2006, 16:32

I too find single player "satisfying". It doesn't blow me away. I don't play MP over the web - just hotseat. My observation there is that you need a low difficulty setting to avoid being rushed by a cheating AI player.
The AI doesn't cheat anymore in 1.2, does it?

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Unread postby Orfinn » 28 Jul 2006, 17:26

Good question. If the A.I dont cheat, is that a bad thing? I dont play 1.2 thats why I ask..

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Unread postby unreal_az » 28 Jul 2006, 17:30

The ai still cheats in 1.2.

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Unread postby Sikon » 28 Jul 2006, 18:33

Does it still receive 10,000 gold every turn?

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Unread postby LordErtz » 28 Jul 2006, 19:05

Sikon wrote:Does it still receive 10,000 gold every turn?
Way more in some cases...I sent CH a picture today that would be quite interesting for you to see.

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Unread postby Kalah » 28 Jul 2006, 19:11

Sikon wrote:The AI doesn't cheat anymore in 1.2, does it?
Well, it doesn't matter, since I'm on holiday and haven't been able to download 1.2. My experiences stem from gaming early July. :)
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Unread postby King Imp » 28 Jul 2006, 19:38

PhoenixReborn wrote: I agree that patches shouldn't cause new bugs but at least they are patching instead of disappearing altogether.

The editor is coming in 1.3. You know this. I don't see what the cause for concern is?


In regards to the first one, I would rather have no patches and leave the game as it is, than this crap they give us that screws up the game even worse and creates more bugs than it actually fixes.

As for the second one, are you so sure? We all knew Multiplayer was coming in Patch 1.2, but when it did it still didn't work right. I have absolutely no confidence that the Map Editor will be what we wanted or expected, kinda like that piece of garbage Hall of Fame.

Now, with all the complaints about MP, I wouldn't be surprised to see them push back the next patch even further in an attempt to fix both that and finish the editor.

Of course, these are just two things were concerned about. Lets not forget the other features and bug fixes that we have been waiting for months for, but still have no clue what's going on with since they are all in hiding and treat the community like lepers. Heaven forbid someone (coughFabricecough) takes 5 lousy minutes every 2 weeks to let us know what's going on. No one's schedule is that hectic that you can't spare 10 minutes a month.

Will these things eventually get fixed? Maybe, maybe not, but I'll tell you one thing I sure as hell did not pay $60 in the belief that I was going to get half a product and that it would be okay for them to completely fix it at their leisure. If anyone buys the expansion after this shoddy service, then you all deserve to get a crap product.

Oh, and yeah, good job unreal. :applause:

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Unread postby HodgePodge » 28 Jul 2006, 20:48

PhoenixReborn wrote:Well according to my multiplayer poll half the people who voted didn't care about multiplayer. Of the remaining votes only 20% thought multiplayer didn't function well. Admittedly this is out of 20 votes but I think it's clear that celestial heavens forum members don't care much about multiplayer.
I mostly perfer single-player too, but when I do go multi-player I want to have TCP/IP capability, which I understand isn't implemented in Heroes 5.

There is no way I'm gonna go over to the ubi.com server to play online when someone just lives across the street. Besides, I've heard ubi.com is slow and buggy, so why does everyone have to go through ubi.com to play multi-player?

P.S. Thanks unreal_az for posting this thread at the Round Table. Give it enough time to develop. Many more people will see and discuss it now. :rumor: Good Job!
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Unread postby Kalah » 28 Jul 2006, 21:07

HodgePodge wrote:There is no way I'm gonna go over to the ubi.com server to play online when someone just lives across the street.
You're playing hotseat? Who with?
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Unread postby HodgePodge » 28 Jul 2006, 22:45

Kalah wrote:
HodgePodge wrote:There is no way I'm gonna go over to the ubi.com server to play online when someone just lives across the street.
You're playing hotseat? Who with?
No one from RT or Ubi. Hotseat is when two or more players are using the same computer to play.
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Unread postby Paulus1 » 28 Jul 2006, 23:21

HodgePodge wrote: Besides, I've heard ubi.com is slow and buggy, so why does everyone have to go through ubi.com to play multi-player?
Most likely because of piracy prevention. You need the game serial number to play online through Ubi - and if that's the only way to play MP except Hotseat and LAN, I guess they think it helps against piracy.

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Unread postby ThunderTitan » 28 Jul 2006, 23:32

Paulus1 wrote: Most likely because of piracy prevention. You need the game serial number to play online through Ubi - and if that's the only way to play MP except Hotseat and LAN, I guess they think it helps against piracy.
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Unread postby asandir » 28 Jul 2006, 23:34

interesting thread unreal .... not sure i agree with absolutely everything, but i will thorw something else into the ring.

I was a big advocate for ubival, mainly because i thought any revival of heroes could only be a good thing, as time passed and details became available, it all seemed to be going so well .... they listened to the fans and delayed to create a more finished product. Finally HV was released, and I got it day 1 .... i found the game (when i could get it to start) be be a lot of fun, but had some issues (mainly the annoying as hell mouse over noise - thanks modders, and an issue with splitting troops - a hang everytime!) which caused some anxiety, but still did not stop the game being enjoyable. When 1.1 came out I patched and was happy with the improvements .... no more stack splitting problems and I was a happy man .... then patch 1.2 came out, bugs got introduced .... I was a lot less happy.

I find it extraordinary that after the development history, buggy beta, delayed start, buggy relase and then positive first patch, ubival could release such a dismal second patch, it has really affected my previous optimism for the heroes revival, and has really made me lose a lot of faith in ubival .... i still pray they will get it right - please don't ruin heroes (and m&m in it's entirety) for us all - hop back on the bike and for gods sake people DO IT RIGHT!!!!

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Unread postby King Imp » 29 Jul 2006, 17:28

My main problem, aside from waiting so long for the Map Editor, is the fact that they don't seem to have a clue over at Nival how to prioritize and Fabrice isn't strickly holding them to fix what needs to be fixed. They keep touching stuff that never had a problem in the first place and "fixing" stuff that no one ever mentioned as being a problem instead of focusing on the actual bug lists we have given them. Some of these bugs still exist from back in the beta.

Someone, who shall remain nameless, said to me that there aren't many bugs left and what is left are mostly typos. Really? I guess all this stuff here and here are not bugs and are just typos, huh.

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Unread postby HodgePodge » 30 Jul 2006, 17:26

King Imp wrote: Someone, who shall remain nameless, said to me that there aren't many bugs left and what is left are mostly typos. Really? I guess all this stuff here and here are not bugs and are just typos, huh.
That "nameless" someone has always defended UbiSoft … right or wrong; in spite of any evidence to the contrary. This "nameless" someone seems to somehow be "in the pocket" of UbiSoft for whatever benefits or reasons. This person's opinions are no longer credible to the majority of Heroes fans.
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Unread postby unreal_az » 30 Jul 2006, 20:44

This post was recreated on UBI's forums.
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/ ... 4761058764
I'd like to welcome all who want to come there and express their opinions.
This post has been brought to the the atention of Fabrice Cambournet Homm5 Producer.


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