AI in the new patch ... less agressive? less well funded?

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Alamar
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AI in the new patch ... less agressive? less well funded?

Unread postby Alamar » 24 Jul 2006, 03:35

Is it me or is the AI much less agresive in heroic mode than it used to be? So far on a Rise to Power map [my standard play & testing map] not a single hero has taken more than 2 steps into my territory and its already week 6. In addition only one AI color has been taken out and that was during week 5!! [usually the first AI to go is in week 2-3].

I could be wrong but the economic structure of how the AI gets $ may have changed. So far I haven't seen tons of upgraded troops that would otherwise indicate the AI is getting the bonuses that it was.

Has anyone else seen AI changes? Is this just a fluke on this game?

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Unread postby Orfinn » 24 Jul 2006, 06:39

Yeah I have noticed it too, the AI seems more careful if not cowardly than before the patch. I usually get messages early in the first month that at least one of hte other AI's have been deafeted. Now theres silence.....I just got a deja vu feeling of H4 incompetent AI when I played Divided Loyalities recently because of the new "improved" AI, It first attacked my town 2 or 3 times in a row with a couple of heroes, earliest in month 3 8| . I hope this is wrong and that the AI, really are improved not yet another step back. A messed up, mixed game indeed.

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Unread postby omegaweix » 24 Jul 2006, 15:14

mhhm... i'm not sure but since 1.2 the first computer player in "Dragon Pass" (my favorite map for testing and stuff) gets nuked out in week 4 (sometimes in month one week 1)..... not in week three like before.... don't know if this is a good or bad thing.... but personally i like fighting different opponents rather than just one mighty mighty colour!

Overall (but don't rely on it) the a.i. seems to be a little more defensive than before.... and has a tad less armies with their main heroes!
But i'm fine with that, on some maps i was constantly crushed utterly, maybe i've got a chance now (the sp map with the many teleporters, which name i can't recall at the moment, comes in my mind)!
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Unread postby LordErtz » 24 Jul 2006, 15:38

First thing I did with 1.2 was play War of the Worlds, 8 players, and one or 2 got killed within the first couple weeks...that's sick...

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Unread postby Caradoc » 24 Jul 2006, 16:55

LordErtz wrote:First thing I did with 1.2 was play War of the Worlds, 8 players, and one or 2 got killed within the first couple weeks...that's sick...
That's really not such a bad thing. Instead of 7 wimpy opponents, you get four or five that can offer a challenge.

BTW: This is the best map yet. Interesting, nonsymmetrical layout, some unique features, good separation of players.
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Unread postby Campaigner » 24 Jul 2006, 17:14

Interesting....send Sikon to the .ru Nival forums so he can dig up some more info about this ;)

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Unread postby Sikon » 24 Jul 2006, 17:30

Uhm, about what, the AI tweaks?
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Unread postby Campaigner » 24 Jul 2006, 17:57

Yep. And other things of interest :)

LOL :rofl: That was the coolest, most fitting response with a picture I've ever seen :D

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Unread postby Alamar » 28 Jul 2006, 00:50

Update: I was goofing around some more to see if the AI would bother to come into my territory. My hero left my starting area and has been gone for 7 weeks and the AI still hasn't stepped foot into my territory .....

So far I don't see the agression level & imbalanced armys coming into my territory as much with 1.2 as I did with V1.1.

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Unread postby Caradoc » 28 Jul 2006, 18:30

I was surprised to learn that the AI is customized for each map. I've not been able to find out what settings there are, however. But this does imply that AI behavior is not a constant.
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Unread postby Alamar » 29 Jul 2006, 01:02

Caradoc wrote:I was surprised to learn that the AI is customized for each map. I've not been able to find out what settings there are, however. But this does imply that AI behavior is not a constant.
I thought the MP maps didn't have any AI customizations ... are you indicating that even MP haps have AI scripting??

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Unread postby Marine OKeefe » 29 Jul 2006, 04:01

Alamar wrote:
Caradoc wrote:I was surprised to learn that the AI is customized for each map. I've not been able to find out what settings there are, however. But this does imply that AI behavior is not a constant.
I thought the MP maps didn't have any AI customizations ... are you indicating that even MP haps have AI scripting??
I would assume yes. There are several MP maps that are unavailible in the game unless you move them to the proper location in the data.pak and the AI does not function on these maps which indicates that AI is scripted for each map seperately.
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Unread postby Orfinn » 29 Jul 2006, 10:02

WHAT???.....I should have known...oh well the hope lies in the map editor.

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Unread postby Alamar » 29 Jul 2006, 11:48

I agree that a lot of things rely upon the map editor. I wouldn't like basic functions of the AI to rely upon the map editor though :(

I got tired enough in H1-H4 making sure that I gave the AI enough of an economic, skill, and XP boost without having to worry a lot about tweaking the behaviour of the AI ... grrr.

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Unread postby Caradoc » 02 Aug 2006, 21:06

Marine OKeefe wrote:
Alamar wrote:
Caradoc wrote:I was surprised to learn that the AI is customized for each map. I've not been able to find out what settings there are, however. But this does imply that AI behavior is not a constant.
I thought the MP maps didn't have any AI customizations ... are you indicating that even MP haps have AI scripting??
I would assume yes. There are several MP maps that are unavailible in the game unless you move them to the proper location in the data.pak and the AI does not function on these maps which indicates that AI is scripted for each map seperately.
That is incorrect. The computer players perform very well.
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Unread postby Paradox » 02 Aug 2006, 21:21

that isnt incorrect, have you even tried those maps? the AI just sits in the gates to their castle and does nothing...proving AI needs to be scripted for each map

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Unread postby Caradoc » 03 Aug 2006, 17:19

Paradox wrote:that isnt incorrect, have you even tried those maps? the AI just sits in the gates to their castle and does nothing...proving AI needs to be scripted for each map
Yes I have. (And would not have said so otherwise.) I have played 6 of them to completion and the AI players were quite active. I will say that in some cases there were computer players eliminated before I had encountered them, so it is possible that some did not move, but in every case most of them did.

Have you found anywhere in the map file where AI settings are made?
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Unread postby cornellian » 03 Aug 2006, 18:05

A map-specific scripted AI would ruin the game's chances of any longevity, as a RMG would be out of question.. I must admit that AI is less agressive but I believe it also makes better decisions in the battlefield.. Can't prove this of course but that's what I felt, anyone would agree?

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Unread postby ThunderTitan » 03 Aug 2006, 18:17

Well it's tendency to rush the enemy on the BF was a liability half the time, so if it's not as agressive it might have helped.
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Unread postby PhoenixReborn » 03 Aug 2006, 18:17

I've downloaded the 'extra' maps from the elrath website.

I've been watching a friend play blood lakes and I must say that the A.I. is quite agressive in taking over the smaller undefended towns that are in the middle of the map. It also attacks from multiple sides although that could be because there are three different A.I. players.

However, the problem in this map is that it's on normal difficulty levels and the enemy armies are much too small. This indicates to me that the 'cheating' has been toned down in 1.2. My point is that there is something going on with computer A.I. even on the maps that haven't been officially released.

This is an argument against the idea that the A.I. sits in its castle and against the idea that there is specific A.I. for every single map. I do think there are specific goals in campaign scenarios. On hard difficulty level the computer is also agressive but has better armies to match. What's the appeal of heroic? no resources?


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