For the love of god, how could such a bugged game go gold?

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.
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ThunderTitan
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Unread postby ThunderTitan » 22 Jun 2006, 12:29

"It's not the guy that offers, its the ne that accepts that's the fool". The one thing i learned in college that stuck with me so far.
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Unread postby Gus » 22 Jun 2006, 12:35

yeah, but just because you are dealing with fools doesn't mean it's ok to abuse them. That's what Ethric means, i think.
And i agree, btw: we shouldn't accept this behaviour from companies, right, but we should be able to trust them not to try to fool us.

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Unread postby ThunderTitan » 22 Jun 2006, 12:43

Gus wrote:yeah, but just because you are dealing with fools doesn't mean it's ok to abuse them. That's what Ethric means, i think.
Remind me never to let you run a business. As long as they take it it's always A.O.K. You just have to make sure you don't cross the breaking point. Same thing with goverments/rulers.
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Unread postby falcore19 » 22 Jun 2006, 12:45

Yeah, in a beautiful world where cars smell like flowers and companies care about their customers. But the reality is, companies are companies. I don't get it why people still hope to see some humanity in companies : we've been living in a capitalist world for a hundred years, people should know how it works.

It's simple. What would happen to McDonald if they sold burgers with bugs in them? Would customers need some form of coalition and coordinated action to stop buying from Mcdonald? They would just be outraged and would stop buying them. Well, it should be the same with video games. They sell us products with bugs in them! :disagree:

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Unread postby Gus » 22 Jun 2006, 12:54

@TT
nowhere did i say i condoned the capitalistic way the world works. And indeed, i don't, and i do believe that people, companies, and governments, should do what's right, not what earns the most.
But without going too political, there's something called ethics, and i think that releasing a sucky product to make money off a customer is bad, regardless of how capitalistic you are.

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Unread postby ThunderTitan » 22 Jun 2006, 12:59

falcore19 wrote:I don't get it why people still hope to see some humanity in companies : we've been living in a capitalist world for a hundred years, people should know how it works.
And on this Earth for a couple thousands of years. And most people still haven't figured out how things work.

@Gus:
Ethics are for poor people, so they can feel better.
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Unread postby DaemianLucifer » 22 Jun 2006, 13:02

Gus wrote: But without going too political, there's something called ethics, and i think that releasing a sucky product to make money off a customer is bad, regardless of how capitalistic you are.
Or,in a money language:If you screw over your customers,youll get just some money out of them,but if you attract them with quality,youll get every last penny they have :devil:

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Unread postby Bandobras Took » 22 Jun 2006, 13:19

ThunderTitan wrote: @Gus:
Ethics are for poor people, so they can feel better.
Most people would say that this philosophy is for jerks, so they can feel better. :)

But that's wandering off the topic. I haven't found the game to be so sorely bugged as to be unplayable (I grant that some people have. It seems likely that the five thousands of system configurations are to blame.). The first patch fixed some errors and increased the overall smoothness and playability for me. So long as they remain dedicated to providing free patches, I don't feel too screwed over.
Far too many people speak their minds without first verifying the quality of their source material.

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Unread postby ThunderTitan » 22 Jun 2006, 13:27

Bandobras Took wrote: Most people would say that this philosophy is for jerks, so they can feel better. :)
No, jerks feel better by spending all that money on whores and ale.


And the most common bugs are just annoying in the fact that they could have been easily fixed but weren't.


Notice how the forum doesn't filter whore, but it does <female-wolf>. Ain't that something.
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Unread postby Caradoc » 23 Jun 2006, 04:42

It's not just Heroes V, almost all software is rotten.

The reason is inadequate testing. Test resources are never adequate and the more complex the software, the more testing it requires. Schedules allow programmers to continue to make changes right up to the final code freeze. As release nears, systematic testing is largely abandoned and testers spend their time attempting to verify bug fixes.

Testers tend to be the least experienced and lowest paid developers on the staff and are under enormous pressure to release the product. A huge proportion of the test effort is devoted to insuring the user interface operates properly. Issues of performance and balance are usually discovered when they arise in trial runs rather than from systematic exercise of the engine.

Public beta tests and other inputs from the customer base require the company to devote resources to communication, which they consistently refuse to allocate. Most times, it's the busiest person on the team--the project manager--who is expected to answer all the mail.

Since you probably have heard this rant from me before, I'll end here. But the point is that quality is not about detection and correction of defects but the implementation of procedures that assure that requirements are met. (Juran on Quality)
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Unread postby Gaidal Cain » 23 Jun 2006, 06:56

Speaking of bad software: If you get any code errors while trying to make a post, check if the thing got through first before trying to resubmit, so that mods won't have to delete a whole row of posts (I'm looking at you, Charley ;) ).
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Unread postby asandir » 23 Jun 2006, 07:07

I agree with Bandobras Took ... and my version of HV got a lot better with the patch, yay for fixing my stack splitting problem (and slow key detection problem) and the loading issue ubi/nival - makes for less annoyances

my point being that while most games that are released tend to have bugs, HV (for me) had no gamebreakers and just a few minor annoyances, most of these have been fixed and i look forward to further improvements

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Unread postby falcore19 » 23 Jun 2006, 13:21

Those who buy the games when they come out are beta testers. The games are often very bugged. So gamers play, find bugs, then go to forums and report them. Why would companies pay more money to test them when people do it for them for free?

The solution is that gamers stop going to such low standards, so companies are forced to release quality games. It's our responsibility.

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Unread postby DaemianLucifer » 23 Jun 2006, 13:35

falcore19 wrote:Those who buy the games when they come out are beta testers. The games are often very bugged. So gamers play, find bugs, then go to forums and report them. Why would companies pay more money to test them when people do it for them for free?

The solution is that gamers stop going to such low standards, so companies are forced to release quality games. It's our responsibility.
Errr...No,beta testers were the people that downloaded the beta version of the game that they released,and reported the problems the version had.Those people that payed for the game are supposed to get a final product,with no bugs.

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Unread postby Gus » 23 Jun 2006, 13:47

@DL
he was being ironic, re-read his post.

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Re: For the love of god, how could such a bugged game go gol

Unread postby Dublex » 23 Jun 2006, 13:57

Estrosiath wrote:Sorry for the rant. I really do love the game, but the campaign is just getting so bugged it is more than ridiculous. And the storyline is going downhill fast, too. How could Ubisoft permit the sale of this 5th version, when there are still SO many bugs that can prevent you from finishing campaign objectives (for no reasons, apart maybe that you completed one objective before the other, and the game doesn't like it), frustrating you AND forcing you to restart a map that can potentially take several hours to finish?

I am sorry. Not a very constructive post, but I am rather angry at the ineptitude and money grabbing behaviour of companies that vampirise a franchise I really love. The game is good, but it remains MUCH too bugged. Even with the new patch.

Incidentally, if anyone can tell me where in the nine hells Findan is supposed to be in the 3rd academy mission, it would really help me. Thanks a lot :)
Aah diddums. If you think this is bad, you should have seen Heroes IV at release. THAT needed several patches to get the AI working properly :D

Bug free sotware at release is almost as possible as getting the whole of the population of china to stand up simultaneously or finding a unicorn in new york central park.

I don't mean to sound hard hearted, but I've seen the process of sotware development and a software user at both ends, and for what was put out as gold for Heroes V isn't too bad.

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Re: For the love of god, how could such a bugged game go gol

Unread postby DaemianLucifer » 23 Jun 2006, 14:09

Dublex wrote: Aah diddums. If you think this is bad, you should have seen Heroes IV at release. THAT needed several patches to get the AI working properly :D
There is one major difference here:3DO was with no money when HIV got released,and ubisoft has quite enough money.
Dublex wrote: Bug free sotware at release is almost as possible as getting the whole of the population of china to stand up simultaneously or finding a unicorn in new york central park.
Getting the whole population of china to stand up is easy.Just send an official order from the president.Ah the marvel of communism and tradition :devious: :devil:

And you didnt heard about that unicorn in central park?Its the newest attraction :devil:

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Unread postby Mirage » 23 Jun 2006, 16:03

falcore19 wrote:I don't think Homm5 is that bugged, especially compared to other games today. Do you remember homm3 version 1.0?

I sympatize, companies these days sell unfinished games, and it's a trend. But we wouldn't be in this situation as gamers if we simply didn't tolerate such bs. Companies are able to put betas on the market because players just get bent and buy them. I'm not talking about HOMM here, it's rather good compared to other games, but I've seen so many companies screwing customers and getting away with it that I got used to it. It's the fault of the gamers.
I could barely even play homm4 at release and I think it had no multiplayer at all, crappy AI, pretty big memory leak, etc.... Overall it homm5 is in better shape at release than homm4 was by far.

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Unread postby ThunderTitan » 23 Jun 2006, 16:15

Mirage wrote: Overall it homm5 is in better shape at release than homm4 was by far.
And dirt tastes better then crap. Doesn't mean we shouldn't complain about eating mud.
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Re: For the love of god, how could such a bugged game go gol

Unread postby jeff » 23 Jun 2006, 18:14

Dublex wrote:
Aah diddums. If you think this is bad, you should have seen Heroes IV at release. THAT needed several patches to get the AI working properly :D
Alright I've read that one too many times, how many patches did you download 'exactly'? I did one version 1.0 to 1.2, now I did buy both expansions and if you did not buy WoW you needed an additional patch. I suppose there was a 1.0 to 1.1, so that would be two, with the one with WoW that would be 3. We'll have that many by July with more promised to add features that should have been included in the release. There may have been others for H-IV, but I never needed any but the one I mentioned.
Mala Ipsa Nova :bugsquash:


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