What did Tieru expect? *Inferno 2 spoiler*

Sikon · Unread postby **Sikon** » 13 Jun 2006, 04:28

When Agrael takes the Heart and Tieru is surprised that nothing happens with him, what does he expect to happen? And why doesn't it happen with Agrael in particular?

Pagan · Unread postby **Pagan** » 13 Jun 2006, 06:03

Finish the campaign and you will find out.

*** SPOILER

He is not a demon

/SPOILER ***

Pitsu · Unread postby **Pitsu** » 13 Jun 2006, 06:07

*Spoiler for inferno map 5*

Since two demon armies fought for the Hearth, one would expect that the hearth is taken by a demon. But since Agrael is not a demon, only a (former) ally of them, the Hearth has no effect on him. If he would have been a demon, he would have been teleported back to the demons realm/prison. The hearth is actually a portal or black hole for demons. It is described in the end of Agraels campaign, isn't it?

Sikon · Unread postby **Sikon** » 13 Jun 2006, 06:24

It is, but why do you say Agrael isn't a demon?

DaemianLucifer · Unread postby **DaemianLucifer** » 13 Jun 2006, 07:33

If you watched the heaven outro carefully,youd see that it kills demons.And agrael used it without a problem on the demon he fought,but it didnt affect him,so hes not a demon.

SPOILER

It doesnt kill demons,just banishes them back to where they came from.And youll find out that agrael is a dark elf,actually.

Gaidal Cain · Unread postby **Gaidal Cain** » 13 Jun 2006, 09:45

Sikon wrote:It is, but why do you say Agrael isn't a demon?

Check his Bio. It says "demon cultist". You'll also learn more about him later...

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 13 Jun 2006, 12:18

Gaidal Cain wrote: Check his Bio. It says "demon cultist". You'll also learn more about him later...

Cultists actualy. Implying there are more. And the story does not make it clear if he was a Demon or not.

Rapier · Unread postby **Rapier** » 13 Jun 2006, 12:40

I tihnk the story makes it clear, no other explination makes sense with the heart :p

Marzhin · Unread postby **Marzhin** » 13 Jun 2006, 12:46

ThunderTitan wrote:
Gaidal Cain wrote: Check his Bio. It says "demon cultist". You'll also learn more about him later...
Cultists actualy. Implying there are more. And the story does not make it clear if he was a Demon or not.

Let's think about it :

1/ He's a demon cultist. A cultist implies this is some sort of demon-worshipping cult. So, logically, a cultist is not a demon himself.
2/ He is not affected by the Heart of the Griffin's power.
3/ He says he was a member of the Dark Elf Soulscar clan once.
4/ The Soulscar clan is a clan of demon cultists, so it makes sense.
5/ Agrael is an elven name : there are Sylvan heroes with similar names : Dirael, Vinrael, and even a town called "Rael" in the sylvan campaign.

Pitsu · Unread postby **Pitsu** » 13 Jun 2006, 12:52

Marzhin wrote:
Let's think about it :

1/ He's a demon cultist. A cultist implies this is some sort of demon-worshipping cult. So, logically, a cultist is not a demon himself.
2/ He is not affected by the Heart of the Griffin's power.
3/ He says he was a member of the Dark Elf Soulscar clan once.
4/ The Soulscar clan is a clan of demon cultists, so it makes sense.
5/ Agrael is an elven name : there are Sylvan heroes with similar names : Dirael, Vinrael, and even a town called "Rael" in the sylvan campaign.

6/ Agrael is smaller than any demon lord and uses a lizard as a steed.

Marzhin · Unread postby **Marzhin** » 13 Jun 2006, 12:54

Pitsu wrote:6/ Agrael is smaller than any demon lord and uses a lizard as a steed.

Yes, that too

Akul · Unread postby **Akul** » 13 Jun 2006, 13:02

7/ Agrael seems to have ears on its helm. Big ears.
8/ Agrael seems to be less evil then the demons.

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 13 Jun 2006, 14:30

Marzhin wrote: 3/ He says he was a member of the Dark Elf Soulscar clan once.

When?! I don't recall that. He mentions of knowing about them, but a Demon should know about the people worshiping his kind, no.

And why did the Sovereign trust a bloody elf to look after Isabel? Wouldn't a demon without a free mind (Agrael mentions something about it in the first Innferno campaign).

Then again maybe is the poor storytelling that's to blame for my misgivings.

Marzhin · Unread postby **Marzhin** » 13 Jun 2006, 14:36

ThunderTitan wrote:When?! I don't recall that. He mentions of knowing about them, but a Demon should know about the people worshiping his kind, no.

At the end of C4M3 (I think); after Raelag was recognized by a Soulscar's assassin, Shadya asks him "you seem to know those monsters well" (or something like that) and Raelag answers : "I was one of them once".

Shadya can't be speaking about demons at this point, so the "monsters" are the Soulscar elves (remember they killed her family, according to her bio)

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 13 Jun 2006, 14:56

Marzhin wrote:Shadya can't be speaking about demons at this point, so the "monsters" are the Soulscar elves (remember they killed her family, according to her bio)

Hmm.... i'm not sure that she isn't. And considering DE society killing her parents shouldn't make them monsters to her, just enemies.
As i recall there were demons around, as I did understand that one as a comant about demons. Another statement that can go both ways.

I already said it's a posibility, but certain?

Marzhin · Unread postby **Marzhin** » 13 Jun 2006, 15:01

ThunderTitan wrote:Hmm.... i'm not sure that she isn't. And considering DE society killing her parents shouldn't make them monsters to her, just enemies.
As i recall there were demons around, as I did understand that one as a comant about demons. Another statement that can go both ways.

I already said it's a posibility, but certain?

There had been no mention of demons in her conversation with Raelag before, and it comes just after a Soulscar recognized him... By the way, I don't think it's rare to call a murderer a "monster". It's certainly common in french, and I believe it is in english too.

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 13 Jun 2006, 15:07

Weren't there demons around just before the Soulscar talked? As i recall that's where you discover the Soulscars are in league with demons.

And for a society were murder is the order of the day calling a murdered monster shouldn't be common. The again maybe i'm giving the writers too much credit.

Marzhin · Unread postby **Marzhin** » 13 Jun 2006, 15:09

ThunderTitan wrote:Weren't there demons around just before the Soulscar talked? As i recall that's where you discover the Soulscars are in league with demons.

The alliance between Soulscar and demons was revealed in the beginning of the mission (with the matriarch even asking Raelag why he's so angry against the Soulscars) and in the mission objectives too.

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 13 Jun 2006, 15:13

Yes, and you do fight them on the map, so she could be refering to the demons. As for the abruptness of the dialogue: considering the overall quality of it, would that really be surprising?

I do consider that him being a former Soulscar is a more interesting element, but i don't think the game makes that clear enough as to say it's a certainty.

DaemianLucifer · Unread postby **DaemianLucifer** » 13 Jun 2006, 18:16

ThunderTitan wrote: And why did the Sovereign trust a bloody elf to look after Isabel? Wouldn't a demon without a free mind (Agrael mentions something about it in the first Innferno campaign).

Because demons couldnt leave until the eclipse.

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What did Tieru expect? Inferno 2 spoiler

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