Sylvan campaign, map 3

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Estrosiath
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Sylvan campaign, map 3

Unread postby Estrosiath » 11 Jun 2006, 19:35

Hi all :)

Sorry to be a bother, but I seem to have a problem with completion of this map. I did get the 'accomplished objective' for getting the two heroes out, but even though I have met the creature requirement for the garrison, it does not show up as done.

Browsing on the boards, I found suggestions as to bringing both heroes to the capital, along with Findan, and then hiring another one. Didn't work for me. Anyone can shed some light? Thanks a lot.

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Nebs
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Unread postby Nebs » 11 Jun 2006, 20:02

Don't think it's needed to bring all heroes there...I've just bought another hero (in capitol) and just moved him a bit out of town. Got 'Mission Complete' message.

Try buying couple of heroes if doesn't work with first one.

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Gaidal Cain
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Unread postby Gaidal Cain » 11 Jun 2006, 21:43

You have to have the creatures in the town garrison- as in top row- and then leave the town. If that doesn't work, I'm not sure what the problem is. People usually have trouble with that other quest.
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Omega_Destroyer
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Unread postby Omega_Destroyer » 12 Jun 2006, 17:07

Yeah, that's it. Just have the creatuers in the garrison and rescue the two heroes. Took me a couple of hours, but I beat that mission about 2 am.

cher
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Unread postby cher » 21 Jun 2006, 06:15

I can't even stay in the game long enough to find the prison.

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Unread postby addicted » 25 Jun 2006, 22:02

Okay, this map seems to be impossible.. I can't leave town, the enemy comes and takes it out if I am not there.. the enemy has hugh troops, building 5 times faster than I can, what is with that? I had another town but lost it but I still have that 2nd hero but what good is it, I can't get anywhere.. How do you beat this map? Helppppppppp Please.. :cry:
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Gaidal Cain
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Unread postby Gaidal Cain » 25 Jun 2006, 22:25

In my experience (pre-patch), you'll first get two rather strong necromancers coming from the portal. Let Findan handle those (I actually found that they were easeir to defeat with minimum losses if I didn't let them attack me in the town). After that, hire a sylvan hero to handle town defense, and give it everything but Master Hunters, Emerald Dragons, and a few of the Elder Druids, and let findan go take over the other town. After that, let him explore while you're building your town's mage guilds up so he can get level five spells- very important to get them now, you won't get a chance in map four.
You don't want to make enemies in Nuclear Engineering. -- T. Pratchett

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Nebs
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Unread postby Nebs » 25 Jun 2006, 23:22

In pre-patch they were easier, as in had lousy stats even if 20+ level. In 1.1 they are 20+ level, but also stats are higher. Think they are as they should be when you level up to that level.

Anyway, I again went day 1 with Findan on sea while buying another hero to protect the town. Left same critters as Gaidal Cain in town.

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Unread postby addicted » 26 Jun 2006, 02:08

Nebs wrote:In pre-patch they were easier, as in had lousy stats even if 20+ level. In 1.1 they are 20+ level, but also stats are higher. Think they are as they should be when you level up to that level.

Anyway, I again went day 1 with Findan on sea while buying another hero to protect the town. Left same critters as Gaidal Cain in town.
No matter how hard I try, I just don't have the money to keep all the troops bought to keep enough troops to win some of these battles in this map.. The enemy stays too strong for me with all of his hugh troops, and he eventually kills me..

I got the 3 gates, 2 towns but before I could build back up, purple came and right after him the other one came and wiped me out at Thalla town (the capitol).. I don't see how purple can gain 500 in several different stacks plus other hugh troops (over 1000 troops) every time he comes which is usually every 2 weeks, almost the same for the other enemy.. The enemy should not be able to gain this many troops every 2 weeks when I can't even gain 1/8 of that amount, how is that fair.. I have begun to lose total interest.. I personally think Nival should fix this map and not allow purple to be able to gain over 1000 troops every 2 weeks, this is ridiculous.. same for the other color enemy.. sigh

Thanx for everyone's input.. I guess I am just not smart enough for this map... :tired:
How you Treat people & what You Do or Don't Do will someday come back to "Bite You" or "Bless You". The Choice is Yours & will Affect You Today & Everyday of Your Future. Granny

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Nebs
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Unread postby Nebs » 26 Jun 2006, 02:24

But those 500's are only skels right?

Also, what could help...make a chain of heroes in water (2, or 1 with navigation), so they can reach that part of land south where first teal garrison and hunter dwelling is. Also, bring Findan there. Now, when have the money, also buy couple of heroes that will get troops from second town, and up to that area with hunter dwell, where Findan is now.

In some time, Zoltan, the big bad teal necro hero will gather courage (and loootsa troops ;)) and will head for you. Could be at the same time that purple will attack you as well. What to do? Thanks to chain, transfer troops where needed. If in need to defend against purple, transfer everything Findan got, also everything you could buy in second town via chain. If teal is near (or just want to break garrisons) transfer everything to Findan, including troops from capitol. Eventually, when you beat Zoltan it's easier now. Transfer back all the troops Findan had, leave some ofcourse, and head for necro town. There'll be some troops and tough heroes, but biggest army was destroyed before, and let Findan summon troops from second town. As soon as teal is dead, every week transfer troops from second town to capitol. And if you wanna level up those heroes you saved eventually, put them to defend capitol. They have Nature's Luck which makes it really easy to defend. Also, they will all learn summon creatures, so you can 'retire' some chain heroes.

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Unread postby cornellian » 26 Jun 2006, 14:07

What Nebs said is true, but can be hard to do depending on your build, but luckily we have one great advantage the AI doesn't: save/load feature. I'll give you an alternative strategy I used to beat the map...

Leave Findan in Syris Thalla, and save your game after the first couple attacks while you explore the map with other heroes... You can make a run with Findan to the garrison SE of the town, clear it and return before another attack comes (I didn't have logistics, so you can go even further and come back if you do). In my game another attack came on the last days of the second week.. You were there when the attack came? Good, save after it, and immedeiately leave town to engage further enemies.. You weren't => load... Catch my drift here?

Eventually ( in the third or the fourth week) there will be gaps between the attacks that you can conquer the nearest town to your SW (W-NW of the map), one more attack, and now you can go and rescue one of the heroes... The rest is piece of cake as both heroes you rescue have nature's luck so every man in their army counts as 2.25 man => they can defend with moderate armies while you clear the rest of the map with Findan...
Hope this helps.

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Unread postby Tarm » 27 Jun 2006, 02:49

Im having a similar problem... I have the required army with findan at the capitol, so that objective is completed. Ive killed teal as well and rescued the 2 heroes that I needed. But the "rescue hero1 and hero2" objective still isnt completed :/

And yes I tried to hire other heroes and so on. Didnt work.

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Unread postby cornellian » 27 Jun 2006, 05:38

Try moving one of the heroes you rescuedto the capitol and give the required army to him/her.. If it doesn't work, move both of them...
Oh and by the way, the required garrison must be stationed within the castle, not with the hero that stands in the castle.

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Unread postby Phobos » 27 Jun 2006, 10:58

For me, hiring heroes just wouldn't work. I had to walk the heroes a few steps away from the castle after hiring them, and then the game realised I had completed the mission.

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Sylvan campgain-3rd map

Unread postby saugeen » 02 Jul 2006, 13:48

I am having a hard time with this one. I have re-started many times. After the interval between attacks on the capital become longer. And was able to explore the map more, But I still have not located the 2 heroes. In one of many of my re-starts Findan got town portal. whitch came in handy. But what happened was there were too many boats on the other side, so eventually there was no place to dock my boat. What level are the 2 heores and did they come with an army? Suggestions would be appreciated.

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Unread postby Ari » 02 Jul 2006, 23:49

I just played this map today.
Initially, I had similar issues - every time I took findan out to take something, one of the purple heroes would come and take the capital. I finally won when a) I left about a third of findan's army at the castle with a hired hero and b) withstood my siege more intelligently.

About the sieges. With a level 1 hero, you're in real trouble, both stat wise and numerically, but a few things work in your favor. The enemy siege AI isn't so hot, and makes a few key mistakes that you can exploit. For one, it's often very slow to take out your ammo cart. On this map, you often have more money than troops, so make sure you purchase the ammo cart and even the 4500 gold ballista for your defender. Since the siege can extend 10+ turns (I didn't count but I wouldn't be surprised if it went twice that) you're going to want those shooters going all the time.

Once the battle starts, immediately distribute your troops so that the liches can't hit more than one thing at a time. And make *damn* sure nothing is adjacent to your ammo cart. Once all troops are in position, simply have all of them defend while your shooters take everything out. The enemy is using the exact same tactic, but in his case, I believe the troops "wait" which means they forfeit the defense that you're getting. Even better, shooter vs shooter really favors you over the long haul since the enemy has no ammo cart. It's tempting to simply go on offensive and try to send your unicorns/sprites/dancers etc after the enemy's shooters, but you'll take far more losses than you'll give the enemy. By defending, you force the liches and skeleton archers to slooooowly erode your numbers and you force the enemy hero to slooooowly pick off your dragons and treants. The enemy likes targeting sprites and battle dancers, which is great, since they're of limited use during a siege anyway. Let the enemy waste its time. Even when the high level units are dead, the lower damage that a hero does to lower level units actually works to your benefit, allowing the siege to go even longer. And longer is *good* because every round your towers can take out 3 or so liches, which starts to add up. It's rare that the enemy manages to take down a wall section, and rarer still for them to take down a tower, so you can sit tight for a long time in the battle. Even once a wall is down, the enemy's slow to send troops trhough your moat.

I've noticed that master hunters can chew right through the skeleton archers, so if you find that an attack can take down a nice percentage of them, try to go for them first, as opposed to picking off a paltry lich or two.

One thing that is a real help is to have your druids use lightning on the ghosts/spectres as soon as they can. The ^*&* towers keep aiming for them and missing, which is a huge waste for you. Better to force your towers to aim at better things by taking the ghosts out yourself. Eldrich arrow works too if you picked it up (after all, your hero's level 1 - what else are you going to use mana on?). I positioned my sprites right at the wall, and by dumb luck, that sometimes persuaded the AI to send its ghosts in to kill them. The sprites took a beating, but so did the ghosts :). Sprites for ghosts is a *great* trade in this battle if you can swing it.

This is useless in the initial battle, but when you get to the next one, check out the purple hero and make sure you've got a favored enemy (preferably a shooter) that he's got. The enemy composition changes from battle to battle, and you want to make sure he actually *has* archliches (as opposed to liches) before picking them. Often, to be sure, he has both :)

When you've won the first battle, and it's time to level up, I had great success with light magic, luck and defense. My hero had started with one of the mass spells (err, blessing I think), so getting light to expert payed off.

In the first battle, I had only a relative handful of units left (none of my green dragons or treants made it; Findan had the emeralds), but with each victory I had more time to build up my forces, and my hero's level started to approach that of my enemy. And later still, I had troops coming from the other sylvan town which made the whole thing far easier.

PS - if you right click to look at the list of buffs on your units during this battle you see "elven capital." Anyone know what this is?

PPS - That sylvan siege music. Possibly the best tune in HOMM5 :)

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Unread postby tumorbane » 22 Jul 2006, 19:13

Hmm. Despite numerous strategic tactics, I'm still having tremendous trouble with this map to the point where I'm considering *gasp* playing it on normal.

I'm playing "hard" 1.2. Anyone ever finish it on impossible? If so, how?

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Unread postby maltz » 22 Jul 2006, 19:43

Try this (works for me twice on heroic).

Day 1.
-- Findan takes back capital. Don't let your dragons and sprites out as they will die fast.
-- Hire a new hero, swap army with Findan.
-- Findan on boat with crap army, new hero stay to defend with 100% Findan's army.

Day 2.
-- Findan sail west, towards the Sylvan town SW.
-- Hire another hero, make another boat. This new hero collects floating debris and whatever.
-- Purple hero sieges capital. Don't let your dragons and sprites out again. (They are useful soon) Instant level 5 for new hero.

Then...

2 or 3 more days later, your Findan should have landed beside a ship building dock. Then, the Sylvan town is just west of there. Now summon your sprites and dragons, and you can take it before the end of the first week. (You will lose about 1 dragon, but 19 dragons is still awesome, right?)

Next you want to focus on building mage guilds to be able to learn Resurrection for Findan. If no mage guild offers it, then... how about restart this mission? You do have expert light at this point, right?

After getting resurrection, Findan + 19 dragons = invinsible.

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Unread postby Campaigner » 23 Jul 2006, 01:57

maltz wrote:Try this (works for me twice on heroic).

Day 1.
-- Findan takes back capital. Don't let your dragons and sprites out as they
When I take back the capital the only troops I lose are dragons. I got 8 left when I win. But if I don't use the Emerald Dragons then the towers will shoot my Master Hunters and Elder Druids to dust and that cannot be allowed to happen! The enemy just sits there in the capital with this 20 Spectral Dragons, 25 Wraiths, 33 Vampire Lords and what else he now got.

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Unread postby tumorbane » 24 Jul 2006, 03:12

Thanks Maltz, but I had the same problem as Campaigner. After tons of saves and reloads, I'm at the point now where I've defeated teal and freed the underground hero, but the other prison is now guarded by 160 titans (yes, I took a long long time). Perhaps this redefines Findan's "invincibility" with a bunch of dragons and the resurrection spell. Findan has long sinced maxed and my secondary hero is level 20. Maybe throwing her up against them over and over will weaken them enough. ugh.

This would've been a better designed mission if the purple troops stopped sieging the castle when the garrison was filled with the requisite creatures, or if the requisite creatures were actually enough to withstand the assault.


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