Did MMORPGs kill HoMM's AI?

[WretchedGnu]

It's a well-known fact that the popularity of MMORPGs has altered the way game publishers and their investors (as opposed to developers) evaluate the profitability of new games. One of the "lessons" they come away with is the idea -- whether it's true or not -- that the majority of game dollars are shelled out by those interested in multiplayer as opposed to single player environments.

I suspect that for a franchise like HoMM, the prevailing business wisdom is that it simply isn't worth the investment to put anything but the absolute minimal resources into anything that would primarily benefit the single player experience -- i.e., a decent AI, which has been almost completely ignored in the last two HoMM installments.

[pasto-sor]

well.. ppl dont seem to be very happy about the way the multiplayer system is working, so its not an excuse..

[Psychobabble]

I think the makers of a game in a mainly single player series in a genre which doesn't translate all that naturally online (TBS) know that they should focus on single player.

[Rapier]

I can't see them thinking that Homm has a larger multiplayer than singleplayer appeal.

[Caradoc]

Players often fight against the AI in MMORPGs, at least in my experience.

[Joskevermeulen]

It is a fact that all games today are very multiplayer minded and that A.I. is less important (but still existant in most of them).

You have 2 different business models in gaming these days:
1. pay each month / half year in a dynamically changing world ex. World of warcraft
2. pay one time and than 2 times for 2 different expansions
ex. Heroes of might and magic

In system 1
a game has to be so good that people want to pay for it each month.
So the developpers have a steady cash flow when the game is good giving ideal conditions to create extra content/dimensions to the game and they are getting rewarded for this by even extra cash flow.
Players pay the price of one game a couple of times in the long term if the game is good enough.$$$
A.I. is also not very important because you have online contestants so people fight each other. (I think turnbased games are a little bit too boring for this but I know there are other opinions)

In system 2 a game also has to be good to get bought.
But the developpers get only a one time cash boost.
If it is bought enough they will invest in a good expansion pack hoping for the extra cash. It is the community itself that can create extra content/modifications.
On average after 2 expansions they make a new version of the game.

But here I see a difference between Heroes I,II,III and HEROES IV,V
Heroes I,II,III deliver a finished product with a good future perspective (mapeditor , at least a couple of maps , a community that delivers extra content , a dynamic a.i. that reacts skillfully and randomly)
The games are each time evolutions of themselves with almost endless replayability.

Heroes IV and V never quite matched there predecessors in terms of gameplay, content , ai , replayability ,... (even without expansion packs)

I think Wretchedgnu got a point:

In my opinion the developers of Heroes IV and Heroes V must have gotten a deadline that was much too short to complete everything and got too less resources so they forgot to finish the A.I.


My doomscenario of HOMM V

So they began building a 3d engine (that I like!) that probably got all attention because it is the eye candy on the backside of the coverbox and the online screenshots that is the most important to sell a game these days even more than before.
Then there was also enough time to create some creatures and castles based on Warlords,LOTR,Warhammer(i like the creatures!) and previous Heroes Versions .
But then in the end when the real gameplay and non scripted A.I. was being tweaked they were forced to publish it without a challenging A.I.

This created a problem for the custom-usermade-maps (that have made Heroes games so great) as well.
Because all those custom maps rely on descent A.I. very much to make it challenging.
So they didn't include the mapeditor at all because otherwise it would show all buyers that in the release version the A.I. is very very bad like it happened with Heroes IV.

Now we just have to hope the A.I. gets fixed. In Heroes IV it never happened. So The day the A.I. gets fixed to a level where it is poses a real challenge I hope we will see a Mapeditor. I hope that day will come, It is what heroes is all about.

My advice concerning HEROES VI
If it doesn't happen, let them immediatly begin with Heroes VI and not begin development with the new 3D-engine but with an A.I.
Once the A.I. is finished using the previous 3D Engine they can begin focussing the new 3D-engine and other things.

[DaemianLucifer]

I think its laziness that killed HVs AI,along with other stuff that are wrong with it.

[omegaweix]

I think its laziness that killed HVs AI,along with other stuff that are wrong with it.

I don't believe Heroes 5 was ever or is dead!
Sure, it may suffer from a mediocre illness and some congenital (or should i say inbred?) disabilites but nothing inevitable lethal or impossible to cure!

At least there is the possibility to patch the AI, when NWC went bancrupt, the chances of Heroes 4 getting anything dwindled to zero!

And the announcement of the second patch (map AND campaign editing, bigger maps, ingame described creature abs) showed me that Ubi/Nival really tries to accomodate towards our suggestions and needs!

[Jeckhyl]

Players often fight against the AI in MMORPGs, at least in my experience.

I agree. PvP is played in MMORPGs by a small minority of Hardcore Gamers. They are kinda like the bones of a mmo ; but the majority of players -more casual- never do PvP and focus in PvE ; they are the blood of the mmo.

[DaemianLucifer]

I don't believe Heroes 5 was ever or is dead!
Sure, it may suffer from a mediocre illness and some congenital (or should i say inbred?) disabilites but nothing inevitable lethal or impossible to cure!

I said AI is dead,not HV.As for HV overal,it suffers from terminal dumbing down disease.

At least there is the possibility to patch the AI, when NWC went bancrupt, the chances of Heroes 4 getting anything dwindled to zero!

Sure,but Im not so optimistic about AI being fixed.

And the announcement of the second patch (map AND campaign editing, bigger maps, ingame described creature abs) showed me that Ubi/Nival really tries to accomodate towards our suggestions and needs!

Are you saying that the promise of a second patch from a company that promised us a finished game and masive fixes in patch one is enough?

[Kristo]

Yeah the folks at Nival missed the boat on this one. There are only two rules for AI:

1. The computer opponents should at least appear to be bound by the same laws as a human player.

2. At the end of the day, the human player wins, but just barely. Let me repeat that, it's not the AI's job to beat you.

From everyone's posts around here regarding the AI, I'd say they failed miserably on both counts. They broke #1 when they gave the computer insanely huge starting armies, 10000 gold per day, and seemingly unlimited spell points. And #2 is clearly broken because people are losing repeatedly through no fault of their own, mostly due to the problems with #1.

[ThunderTitan]

Well from what FC said about making the AI it might not be Nival who did it.

Still, the biggest annoyance for me it's the completly fake builds the AI heroes, or at least the campaign ones have.