Enlightenment

[Nebs]

If true, that skill jumped really high on usefulness chart.

[vicheron]

I think you missed the point. Like atma6 said, you won't be able to max all your skills, so you can max all your other skills and save the subskills of enlightenment for last. The thing he didn't consider is that, once you take enlightenment, you may be forced to take an enlightenment subskill if you have rotten luck at level-up.

I don't see how the subskills of attack or defense are so much better than the stat boost from enlightenment. Let's look at it this way: every 5% = 1 stat point.

So defense gives you +6 defense from melee, +4 from archery.
Attack gives you +3 attack for melee, +4 for archery.
At level 20, enlightenment can give you +10 attack or +10 defense (unless you're a wizard; then you get stuck with knowledge... ugh...).

Seems like an extra +5 stat points is a pretty good trade for the subskills of attack or defense. That's 25% damage. If you're a Necromancer, you may still want to take attack over enlightenment since battle frenzy will give your 1000 skeletons an extra 1000 damage. But enlightenment would still be better than vitality.

Let's say some enemies do 2000 points of damage to your skeletons:
With vitality: 333 killed
With +5 defense from level 20 enlightenment: 375 killed
With +10 defense from level 30 enlightenment: 250 killed

Not a huge difference. 3 skills to do the work of 5? Not a bad trade, right? Of course, that doesn't help against spells, but it helps a small group of powerful creatures a lot more than vitality does. So, although it won't help your skeletons as much, your spectral dragons are a lot better off.

I'm pretty sure that the bonus from attack and defense secondary skills are multiplied by the attack and defense primary skills.

They should have combined Arcane Intuition and Scholar considering how there are only 45 spells in the entire game and you can only learn half of them without the proper skills.

It would be nice if Enlightenment reduced the experience required the gain levels. Basic Enlightenment -5% experience required to gain levels and the hero gains levels as if he was one level lower than he is. Advanced Enlightenment -10% experience required to gain levels and the hero gains levels as if he was twp levels lower than he is. Expert Enlightenment -15% experience required to gain levels and the hero gains levels as if he was three levels lower than he is.

[DaemianLucifer]

It would be nice if Enlightenment reduced the experience required the gain levels. Basic Enlightenment -5% experience required to gain levels and the hero gains levels as if he was one level lower than he is. Advanced Enlightenment -10% experience required to gain levels and the hero gains levels as if he was twp levels lower than he is. Expert Enlightenment -15% experience required to gain levels and the hero gains levels as if he was three levels lower than he is.

Then theyd have to drop the stat bonus.And still this would be a very powerful skill.But what would happen if you got enlightment on level one using witch huts?

[Qurqirish Dragon]

It would be nice if Enlightenment reduced the experience required the gain levels. Basic Enlightenment -5% experience required to gain levels and the hero gains levels as if he was one level lower than he is. Advanced Enlightenment -10% experience required to gain levels and the hero gains levels as if he was twp levels lower than he is. Expert Enlightenment -15% experience required to gain levels and the hero gains levels as if he was three levels lower than he is.

Wel, reducing the XP needed for the next level is the same as a bonus to earned experience, just the numbers are slightly different- For example, a 10% bonus to experience earned is about the same as needing 9% less experience per level.
By "gaining levels as if x levels lower," you mean that to go from level 14 to 15, a hero with expert enlightenment would need the same experience as a normal hero would need for level 11 to 12? Would this be retroactive to your current total? If no, then until you get to the upper 20's, it is basically just an additional 20% experience or so. If yes, then it is basically one free level each time you take it. I think that is too strong, since you get basic -> free level -> choose advanced -> free level -> choose expert -> free level. Basically the first time you get the skill offered, you would get 3 free levels, and not even have the detriment of a higher experience rate for the next advance. (as dark revelation gives)

[DaemianLucifer]

Even if it isnt retroactive,it still is too strong.Especially with the current XP requirements.

[Gaidal Cain]

Even if it isnt retroactive,it still is too strong.Especially with the current XP requirements.

Why? It's basically three points of Primary skills, and some extra kick to the special ability, in exchange for a secondary skill slot. The current enlightenment is much stronger than that.

[Qurqirish Dragon]

Even if it isnt retroactive,it still is too strong.Especially with the current XP requirements.

Why? It's basically three points of Primary skills, and some extra kick to the special ability, in exchange for a secondary skill slot. The current enlightenment is much stronger than that.

It's more than 3 primary skills, as you also do not need to boost this skill in order to get the subskills! normally, you need to take a secondary skill 3 times to to get 3 abilities (total of 6 levels). Here, you can do the same in only 3 levels (since basic gives you advanced, expert, and another ability for free!)

[Gaidal Cain]

And having scholar is just soo useful... There aren't that many useful sub-skills for enlightenment so that it's worth it.

Anyway, if you don't want an easy levelup, just make it affect the next level- get basic enlightenment at first levl up, next level will only be 1000 xp away. Only trouble would be getting it before basic, but one could either use 1000 points or make a suitable value- 800 xp. Doesn't matter much in the end.

[Qurqirish Dragon]

And having scholar is just soo useful... There aren't that many useful sub-skills for enlightenment so that it's worth it.

If you are going for the ultimate ability, since most heroes need enlightenment for it, this will let you get it effectively 3 levels faster- giving an advantage over those that do NOT need enlightenment. Particularly if Dark Revelation is also in the tree.

[vicheron]

It would be nice if Enlightenment reduced the experience required the gain levels. Basic Enlightenment -5% experience required to gain levels and the hero gains levels as if he was one level lower than he is. Advanced Enlightenment -10% experience required to gain levels and the hero gains levels as if he was twp levels lower than he is. Expert Enlightenment -15% experience required to gain levels and the hero gains levels as if he was three levels lower than he is.

Wel, reducing the XP needed for the next level is the same as a bonus to earned experience, just the numbers are slightly different- For example, a 10% bonus to experience earned is about the same as needing 9% less experience per level.
By "gaining levels as if x levels lower," you mean that to go from level 14 to 15, a hero with expert enlightenment would need the same experience as a normal hero would need for level 11 to 12? Would this be retroactive to your current total? If no, then until you get to the upper 20's, it is basically just an additional 20% experience or so. If yes, then it is basically one free level each time you take it. I think that is too strong, since you get basic -> free level -> choose advanced -> free level -> choose expert -> free level. Basically the first time you get the skill offered, you would get 3 free levels, and not even have the detriment of a higher experience rate for the next advance. (as dark revelation gives)

By "gaining levels as if x levels lower" wouldn't be retroactive. I don't think it would be too strong because the whole point of the Enlightenment skill is to put your hero ahead of the opposition by sacrificing a secondary skill. The way Enlightenment is now would barely give your hero one extra level at higher levels. I think that Enlightenment should give your hero at least 3 or 4 extra levels around levels 25 or higher.

[cornellian]

I've found enlightenment most useful to Dungeon heroes, especially those with Sorcery. The 50% mana bonus and knowledge from the extra stats coupled with the good caster sub-skills of Sorcery (arcane training, mana regeneration, erratic mana) ensures that you very rarely run out of mana if ever.. And yes, even though half of the extra stat points will go to spellpower they are much useful there once you have ~100 mana with 20 daily regeneration..

First began to use this combo in the Dungeon Campaign where I used Sorcery/Enlightenment/Luck to great effect... Non-stop casting 3000+ damage implosions anyone?

[juventas]

Hmm, so you'd rather have luck than empower? Interesting choice because on average, you're doing the same damage as empower. Less consistency but also less mana usage.

On a side note, I've noticed that whenever I take Enlightenment for my Warlock, I always get a bunch of extra attack instead of spellpower or knowledge.

[Rapier]

He probably had empower as well... I mean Luck doesn't conflict with Empower, whichis a subskill of Irresitable magic... Enlightment needs better skills coming off it though...

[Orfinn]

Not new better skills, just improve the existing ones.

Scholar could give you a permanent +1 to knowledge and Arcane Intuition/Intelligence +1 spellpower. Still all of those could fit with +1 knowlege, though Im not sure if that would make sense. Anyway I cant find other things that would fit to improve them.

[Gus]

WoG's redesign of these skills was very interesting.

[cornellian]

Hmm, so you'd rather have luck than empower? Interesting choice because on average, you're doing the same damage as empower. Less consistency but also less mana usage.

On a side note, I've noticed that whenever I take Enlightenment for my Warlock, I always get a bunch of extra attack instead of spellpower or knowledge.

Yes, as Rapier had said, I also had empowered spells.. So double mana cost for implosion (2x9=18), %20 reduction from arcane, and an average of 25 from erratic made it around an average 10 mana last time (I didn't calculate it, just guessing) for implosion... So with an extra 1 mana, I had %50 more damage with the chance of striking a big one with warlock's luck and this is without the extra elemental chain damage to the unlucky targets. Couple those with the boots that give %50 more earth damage (they are pretty common in artifact dealers in dungeon towns for 5k gold), and you should get even higher than 4k+ in implosion, and around 2k+ meteor showers, making them massacre showers instead ...

[juventas]

I thought warlock's luck and empower were broken? Did the patch fix it?

[Bandobras Took]

I've actually noticed a general trend in the skill system that powerful abilities often require wimpy prereqs. Part of general balancing overall, and well done, IMO. I like Enlightenment as it is; the stat bonuses move it from being the worthless skill of H3 to a competitive skill. Not overpowered, but not underpowered, either.

[cornellian]

I thought warlock's luck and empower were broken? Did the patch fix it?

Strange you say that; I never had any problem of that kind in the unpatched version neither..

[juventas]

I thought warlock's luck and empower were broken? Did the patch fix it?

Strange you say that; I never had any problem of that kind in the unpatched version neither..

Hmm, I haven't had luck work on my empowered spells before. I must be not so lucky.