After a Week of Heroes V …

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.
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HodgePodge
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After a Week of Heroes V …

Unread postby HodgePodge » 02 Jun 2006, 14:56

Well, after a week of playing H5, I can honestly say that it isn't as great as it was hyped up to be. The 3D engine, while awesome at first, after a little while, becomes quite annoying and takes away from the fantasy mystique & overall enjoyment of gameplay.

The plotline(s) throughout the Campaigns are … what I can best describe as insipid. While UbiSoft/Nival attempted (by plagerizing H3 & other fantasy/horror books & movies) to make the storyline more dark & adult, only succeeded in making it ridiculous. The cut-scenes, with the awful voice acting, are so bad that they become laughable. Luckily, there is a "skip" button at the bottom of each cut-scene. Otherwise a player might go completely insane from listening to the no-talent voice actors.

Not only that but there are some really serious glitches & bugs. In one scenario, one of my main heroes got stuck in the underground level. The 3D engine & camera make it really hard to navigate through many parts of the map … especially the underground. Anyhow, for whatever reason, the "horse" cursor wouldn't connect with the spiral stairway to the surface level. I rotated the camera, zoomed in & out every which way for more than half an hour but still couldn't get the cursor to take my hero to the surface. This glitch is a real game-killer.

Really, Nival, I bought Heroes V to play a game, not to wrestle with a clumsy user-interface!

Also, the AI is just as bad or worse than in H4 … but by trying to fool everyone, Nival scripted the AI to receive tons of resources & creatures on a daily basis. So by the end of week two, the AI can have over 100,000 gold and a horde of level 7 creatures. This isn't a strategy game anymore, it's a race to see if you can beat the AI in less than a week before its army becomes so large that you don't have a snowball's chance in Hell to defeat it.

Anyhow, there are some good points too, but the poor storyline, clumsy user-interface and the glitches & bugs negate them.
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Unread postby Orfinn » 02 Jun 2006, 15:18

Disagree especially on the last part. Yes I have noticed the A.I have plenty resources and money (talking about mp maps here) but darn its much better than previous titles. It dosent have oversized armies I cant beat even after a long days play on a king size map. They are playing just fine and dosent even ignore mines unless they are to heavely guarded, they are not like the H4 ai that just rush into the biggest neutral stack and waste its army for no proper logical reason at all, when a human player would avoid it until she/he got a better army.

Tha! The game rocks and I dont really care if the game lags abit while i lower the cam (can use the top down view) etc it gets overshadowed by the nice storytelling, cutscenes, creatures etc. I really enjoy the campaign more than previous titles, dont mind reading tons of text but since Im one of those who like visual storytelling better I really like it in H5 instead of text.

The cam functions? Havent been easier, just as easy as when I play C&C generals even if not identical. Cant see why people are complaining, really!

The skill system is one of the greates assets in H5 so far, it give so much more depth than previous ones.

Have been a heroes fan since 99 and enjoy this game just as much as the others, if not more. Though it needs to be patched up and expanded with editors, new towns, features. I agree some creatures and names, missing descriptions on artifacts are abit lame but hey theres where the different mods come in to fix up and save the day. One less worry ;)
Last edited by Orfinn on 02 Jun 2006, 15:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: After a Week of Heroes V …

Unread postby PhoenixReborn » 02 Jun 2006, 15:25

HodgePodge wrote:


Also, the AI is just as bad or worse than in H4 … but by trying to fool everyone, Nival scripted the AI to receive tons of resources & creatures on a daily basis. So by the end of week two, the AI can have over 100,000 gold and a horde of level 7 creatures. This isn't a strategy game anymore, it's a race to see if you can beat the AI in less than a week before its army becomes so large that you don't have a snowball's chance in Hell to defeat it.

Anyhow, there are some good points too, but the poor storyline, clumsy user-interface and the glitches & bugs negate them.
How do you know all this?? I have been playing multi player maps in single player mode. My first couple of tries I came up against big armies that I could not beat. The last two times I played I was able to defeat my enemy fairly easily. It had nothing to do with rushing, it just took me time to learn which fights I could and could not handle, and how to build the castles properly.

I'm sorry to read about your bug problems, but I haven't experienced any of them. They will patch the game, people act as if it will never happen.

I have no problems with moving the camera around.

Finally you refer to good points, but I've never seen you name a single one. Personally, I like the skill system.

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Unread postby Wolfshanze » 02 Jun 2006, 15:33

I think the game is solid... in a "review" way, I agree with most out there, I'd put the game in the 80's or give it a solid "B".

It's neither the greatest nor the worst, but it's fun and enjoyable.

As for the AI, from what I've seen so-far, it's a lot more competant then HOMM4's AI, and I haven't seen the AI decimating it's own forces in neutral stacks it can't possibly beat, or sitting at it's castle twiddling it's thumbs for weeks on end.

I like the game... could be better... could be a LOT worse. The skill system is the best implementation in any of the Heroes games.

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Re: After a Week of Heroes V …

Unread postby Znork » 02 Jun 2006, 15:36

HodgePodge wrote: This isn't a strategy game anymore, it's a race to see if you can beat the AI in less than a week before its army becomes so large that you don't have a snowball's chance in Hell to defeat it.
Well hp i think you make a good point her i think you are taking a liteel to negative view her! The question is realy have you tried in hot seat and are you having fun?
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Unread postby Purple Sky » 02 Jun 2006, 15:38

They could have added more to the RPG elements for heroes. But its an opinion of an RPG player, so...

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Unread postby soupnazii » 02 Jun 2006, 15:39

Wolfshanze wrote:I think the game is solid... in a "review" way, I agree with most out there, I'd put the game in the 80's or give it a solid "B".

It's neither the greatest nor the worst, but it's fun and enjoyable.

As for the AI, from what I've seen so-far, it's a lot more competant then HOMM4's AI, and I haven't seen the AI decimating it's own forces in neutral stacks it can't possibly beat, or sitting at it's castle twiddling it's thumbs for weeks on end.

I like the game... could be better... could be a LOT worse. The skill system is the best implementation in any of the Heroes games.
i dont have much to say here except that i completely agree. i couldnt have said it better myself.

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Unread postby JamaY » 02 Jun 2006, 15:58

I agree with some of your points, but I like the 3D interface, and the AI is not that bad. Hell, I've been beaten by the AI in hard in some multiplayer maps. In some other maps, though, it's not really up to level to a player...especially in the Warlords map, where the enemy on my "island" always stays in his city without taking the mines a day's length from his city (the wood and ore you need to build anything past the first week), while i conquer everything on the island and crush him with an army 3x better.
On other maps, though, like Divided Loyalties (4 playes, 8 cities total), the AI can see where you are and ambush you by going through teleporters, popping out of the underground, or just having more movement than you. They will also take your small cities first to deny you of some income.
The problem here, is the AI concentrates too much on kiling the enemy and not getting ressources. In the mid-game, when I have destroyed all neutral stacks near my city to get at least one of each mine, some artefacts and ressources, the enemy only has a wood and ore mines, no artefacts, and no high-level units since he doesn't have any ressources to built the appropriate buildings. This varies from map to map, too..so in some situations it will fight really well..and in other situations will get stomped.
That's why I like the 8-player maps...the weak players controlled by the AI will be defeated by the strong players, and the fight will be more interesting :)

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Unread postby DaemianLucifer » 02 Jun 2006, 16:02

HodgePodge wrote:Well, after a week of playing H5, I can honestly say that it isn't as great as it was hyped up to be.
Someone said that months before the game got released,but did you listen?I hate saying told you so,but...Oh,who am I kidding?Told you so! :devil:
Orfinn wrote:Disagree especially on the last part. Yes I have noticed the A.I have plenty resources and money (talking about mp maps here) but darn its much better than previous titles. It dosent have oversized armies I cant beat even after a long days play on a king size map. They are playing just fine and dosent even ignore mines unless they are to heavely guarded, they are not like the H4 ai that just rush into the biggest neutral stack and waste its army for no proper logical reason at all, when a human player would avoid it until she/he got a better army.
Better then previous?So before HIV there wasnt a single game of heroes?I still find HIII AI the best,especially wiyh WoG.
Orfinn wrote: Tha! The game rocks and I dont really care if the game lags abit while i lower the cam (can use the top down view) etc it gets overshadowed by the nice storytelling, cutscenes, creatures etc. I really enjoy the campaign more than previous titles, dont mind reading tons of text but since Im one of those who like visual storytelling better I really like it in H5 instead of text.
Nice storytelling?Shiny=better only in HV,not in real life.Just because it is shiny doesnt mean it is better.Hell,even the WoW campaign has better characters than this one!
Orfinn wrote: The cam functions? Havent been easier, just as easy as when I play C&C generals even if not identical. Cant see why people are complaining, really!
You call this easy?Havent played generals to much,because its crap(although many say the expansion is much better,I never risked trying it),so I cannot compare,but I did play myth and compared to that one,this camera is dumb and hard to master,even though in myth you had to use half of your keybord to move the camera.
Orfinn wrote: The skill system is one of the greates assets in H5 so far, it give so much more depth than previous ones.
It has one thing thats better(partially)then in previous parts.But by improving the skill system,the spell system became worse(compared to HIV,of course).
Orfinn wrote: Have been a heroes fan since 99 and enjoy this game just as much as the others, if not more. Though it needs to be patched up and expanded with editors, new towns, features. I agree some creatures and names, missing descriptions on artifacts are abit lame but hey theres where the different mods come in to fix up and save the day. One less worry ;)
The game was postponed!Have you all forgoten the "we saved heroes" so easily?The fans sent ubi/nival a clear message not to sell us an unfinished game,no matter how much time it takes.And this game is clearly unfinished.No amout of openes(is this a word anyway?)of the code can cover that fact.

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Unread postby karacha » 02 Jun 2006, 16:04

Actually, I wanted to write my own review... but I'll use your topic to comment.

A little background first: I've played games for more than 25 years. I used to own Sinclair ZX81, ZX Spectrum 48k, Commodore 64, Atari 520 and later 1040ST. I played every HoMM game, and most turn-based strategy games and numerous RPGs and real-time strategies. I also played arcade games (mostly fighting games such as Tekken series) at a semi-professional level, which means I went to tournaments, studied those games seriously, and earned some prizes in the process. I own a collection of over 500 computer games, so I'm a pretty serious gamer.

Here we go -

First of all, 3D engine: I think that most people who complain about it are not used to 3D games. Not all of them, but most. It's fine, you'll get used to it. The graphics are great, maps, towns, everything. Sure, it's not FEAR or Oblivion, but for a TBS it's a 10/10 when it comes to graphics. Use you arrow keys to scroll and rotate the camera sometimes.


More positives: Sound effects are nice, music is excellent. 9/10 for this aspect of the game. It's really nice, not perfect - but nice.

Gameplay is pretty much the same as H3. At first I thought the maps could be a little larger, but then, for some reason, this game feels a little bit slower to me. Does that make any sense? I have absolutely no proof that it is slower, but it feels that way. So, the maps are ok too, no problem. Good stuff, 9/10. Note: Use your hotkeys instead of your mouse as much as possible. All "real" gamers do. :D It's much faster and better. Memorize them, this is not a flight simulation game with 568 shortcuts.

Now let's see what's not hot about HoMM V:

Bugs: There are many, I'm not even going to mention them ,there's a separate topic for this. The game is basically incomplete, fun but INCOMPLETE. Few bugs ore ok, but some things are just ridiculous. 4/10

Campaigns: I never liked playing campaigns very much; I'm more of a free-form-style guy. Gimme a map, set some goals and let me play and go in any direction. But with that said, I played most of the campaign. I'm going to agree with our HodgePodge here: the voice acting is just... bad. "Griffin Eternal!" :D :D :D ! Silly random spell effects, cheesy dialogues. Bad. I'd rather read on-screen text and instructions. I'd also rather see some cool static background art, while the fancy-font text scolls up or down and the appropriate orchestral music plays. Easier to make, and better. Oh well. 5/10

Manual: What in the nine hells is this!? Is this a manual? I'm a HoMM veteran, but come on now... no creature stats, no hero stats, no special abilities in a table... nothing. Useless. Not even a good .pdf version of the manual with stats, hero biographies. Unacceptable. 1/10. Move on.

Replayability: They better patch this with more varied maps, team maps, and a freakin' editor. You can finish this in 2 weeks as is :disagree: . Huge potential though. Monstrous. Just give us an editor, and we'll make those maps, save you some trouble ;) . 3/10 with a potential to be an 11/10!

That's that. Some people might not like this or that, but it really comes down to personal taste. It's not something you can quantify. Some gamers like vampires with swords, others hate them. Not important, because these things don't make or break a game, and 3D games are generally very easy to mod. Expect to see graphic modpacks in the near future anyway. But Graphics, Gameplay, Sound, Replayability... now those things count. Some are excellent, some are mediocre and some are bad.

Overall, if I had to grade this game on a % scale, it would end up somewhere between 79% and 82%. B-. With an editor and more maps, and some bug fixes, it will go to high 80s. Say, 88% (B+). Add a town or two and a RMG, and it will skyrocket to those rare games that deserve 90%+. But since that won't happen before the expansion pack comes out - vanilla HoMM 5 might end up around 88% depending on UBIs willingness to invest some money into patching it. Huge potential, decent execution, solid game.

Better than complete IV, weaker than complete III.

PS
You know what we really need in this game? Options. Options. And more options. Say, you want to play a map:

how many players? 4. Hotseat? Sure. Teams? Yup, 2 teams. How about terrain? Large. Mostly grassy, woods, some snow and very few lakes. Oh yes, I'd like a small, dark underground with cheese and mustard.
Separate AI levels for each computer opponents? Yes, please. Lots of quest huts too, and 2-3 artifact merchants. Not too many neutral towns.

Stuff like that, man... I want to CUSTOMIZE my map. Today I feel like playing a small co-op map, tomorrow I might like one large free-for-all map with a completely different terrain algorithms. And I'm not asking for too much here, other - older - games have these options. Make those fractal terrain algorithms work a little bit, use some CPU, you know?

Thanks for reading. And please, if you want to quote me, don't quote the whole thing, it's long, and it's gonna stretch the page...

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Unread postby Orfinn » 02 Jun 2006, 16:12

Nice storytelling?Shiny=better only in HV,not in real life.Just because it is shiny doesnt mean it is better.Hell,even the WoW campaign has better characters than this one!
WTF? Dont put your complains and vile words over on me, I didnt say anything about shiny or glowing or that it meant better, I dont look for shiny or glowing, sure its cool but its not the part that I like the most of the creatures, they look mythic and gives a nice atmosphere they reminds me of fantasy CREATURES I LIKE both in cinematics and otherwise.Some like text and words rather than visuals and style. Just because the games content dosent please you, dosent mean I dont get pleased!

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Unread postby DaemianLucifer » 02 Jun 2006, 16:49

I agree with karacha on most things except the 3D.Although the map is grand,and the towns are marvelous,creatures and heroes somehow dont fit.Also,the camera is really bad.And lets not forget the problems many people had with lags,even though they have average machines(by current standards,of course).And graphics isnt really the most important thing in TBS,so why then making things so blendable?Sure it looks beatuiful,but half of the stuff cannot be seen because they bland in with the enviroment so good.Id give 6/10 here.

And yes,options are the key.I always screamed for open source,and we got a lot of that.The game is easy modable,and thats a plus.A big plus.But it still needs more polishing for this modability to trully shine.

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Unread postby theLuckyDragon » 02 Jun 2006, 16:58

DaemianLucifer wrote:Hell,even the WoW campaign has better characters than this one!
I believe that's highly unlikely. Nothing can beat those guys from WoW.
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Unread postby DaemianLucifer » 02 Jun 2006, 17:07

theLuckyDragon wrote:I believe that's highly unlikely. Nothing can beat those guys from WoW.
Tree shaging pixies can.Along with race transvestite(like a regular transvestite,but they change their race instead of gender,something like michael jackson :devious: :devil: )

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Unread postby Wolfshanze » 02 Jun 2006, 19:17

DaemianLucifer wrote:And lets not forget the problems many people had with lags,even though they have average machines(by current standards,of course).
I don't think anyone with a GeForce-7 has complained about Lag at all with H5... hehehe...

I have a high-end GeForce-6 and have no real problems with lag unless I deliberately choose a view that will chug it (literally eye level in the woods).

Then again, lots of GeForce-5 and earlier users have lag...

I agree... the game should be coded better... but you can always through super-mega video cards at it and FORCE HOMM5 to behave!

Anybody got a QUAD-SLI GeForce 7900GTX system running Heroes5... now I bet you could play the whole game at eye level in the woods!

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Unread postby Campaigner » 02 Jun 2006, 19:27

What exactly do you people mean with voiceacting? Just the voices or everything associated with the cutscenes such as the spellcasting and such?

I think the story is easily the best so far. We know the beginning (cosmic egg) and are in the middle of everything.

And Agrael is just so cool. "Tree shagging pixies". "Who writes tripe like this!?" and some others are just so cool and fitting :-D

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Unread postby Wolfshanze » 02 Jun 2006, 19:34

For me, the spellcasting every five seconds during a cutscene speech is REALLY annoying! I could have done without all that.

The Necro and Warlock voices themselves are really out-of-character for a Necro and a Warlock IMO. The Necro voice is well... kinda gay... should be deeper and/or more mysterious... the Warlock voice sounds like the lead character from a bad Disney movie... just way too High School prepie sounding to be a Warlock.

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Unread postby DaemianLucifer » 02 Jun 2006, 20:00

Campaigner wrote:What exactly do you people mean with voiceacting? Just the voices or everything associated with the cutscenes such as the spellcasting and such?
Voiceacting meaning if the character is angry,(s)he should sound angry.You need to feel those emotions.And how can you excpect a dialog when every character waits for 5 seconds before he responds?Its almost like all of them are braindead and need to think hard before saying "exactly".
Campaigner wrote: I think the story is easily the best so far. We know the beginning (cosmic egg) and are in the middle of everything.
"I watched you during your whole life and now Im in love!".Well that was unexpected.And the whole idea of dragin gods is so original.And the demons attacking at every eclipse,thats so inovative!All that god vs evil clearly defined is unrealistic and unoriginal.

And its the gauldoth campaign that is the best so far.
Campaigner wrote: And Agrael is just so cool. "Tree shagging pixies". "Who writes tripe like this!?" and some others are just so cool and fitting :-D
Oh yes,so cool.I though it was funny when I read it here,but when I heard it I laughed for 10 straight minutes!

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Unread postby ThunderTitan » 02 Jun 2006, 21:10

Wolfshanze wrote: I have a high-end GeForce-6 and have no real problems with lag unless I deliberately choose a view that will chug it (literally eye level in the woods).
GeForce 6 right here, and it does lag. And i'm pretty sure 7's aren't exactly mid range.



Best story?! You people need to read more. All the bloody characters sound like they've been dropped on their heads when they were little.
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Unread postby HodgePodge » 02 Jun 2006, 21:30

Don't get me wrong, folks. I'm not as disappointed as I thought I was going to be. For some reason, I thought I would really hate the game, but that's not the case. I am having fun when I'm not having trouble with the interface or listening to those lame voices in the cut-scenes.

It's just that when I first bought Heroes 4, I didn't like it at all. The changes seemed to be too drastic; but within a week of playing, the game grew on me to the point of me really loving it.

With Heroes 5, I liked the game straight away, and after a week of playing, the game hasn't grown on me to the point of me loving it, yet. Maybe after the glitches are patched & the Map Editor & more maps are available, I'll love Heroes 5 too. We'll see.

Anyhow, I too would give the game an 8 out of 10. When the Map Editor & more maps arrive, my rating may go up.
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