How to "Fix" Inferno... what would you do?

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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Galactygon
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Postby Galactygon » Jun 2 2006, 22:56

The (arch) devils really need the "no retaliation" ability restored from HoMM3.

I very much miss the efreeti that were present in HoMM3.

-Galactygon

nosfe
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Postby nosfe » Jun 3 2006, 0:26

arch devils with summon ability like in h4, ie you dont have to wait for one of your units to die; doesn't has to be pit fiends; deamons wound be nice, if only they had higher ini;

the pit lords seem prety slow, both ini and speed, mostly speed, I mean, why have berserker units(ie low armor high attac) and low movement speed(deamon, pit lors, devils)? :|

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Postby vicheron » Jun 3 2006, 0:54

Horned Demons are fine the way they are, it's the Spawn of Chaos/Brimstone Cloud/whatever it's called that needs improving. 1500 gold and 5 sulfur for an extra 2 Horned Demons per week? That's a huge rip off. It should increase the Horned Demon's gating speed or increase their explosion damage or make their explosion affect only enemies, something to make it worth its cost.

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Postby Wolfshanze » Jun 3 2006, 1:20

vicheron wrote:Horned Demons are fine the way they are

Really... I've never heard anyone say that.

Exactly how much use do you get out of Demons in-battle? Especially compared to your other 6-types of Inferno units. Do tell.

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Postby vicheron » Jun 3 2006, 2:08

Wolfshanze wrote:
vicheron wrote:Horned Demons are fine the way they are

Really... I've never heard anyone say that.

Exactly how much use do you get out of Demons in-battle? Especially compared to your other 6-types of Inferno units. Do tell.

How much do you get out of any creature with an initiative of less than 10?

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Postby Wolfshanze » Jun 3 2006, 4:43

vicheron wrote:
Wolfshanze wrote:
vicheron wrote:Horned Demons are fine the way they are

Really... I've never heard anyone say that.

Exactly how much use do you get out of Demons in-battle? Especially compared to your other 6-types of Inferno units. Do tell.

How much do you get out of any creature with an initiative of less than 10?

Plenty with the Pit Fiend/Balor: 8
Plenty with the Archer/Marksman: 9/8
Pently with the Footman/Squire: 8

I find Golems, Minotaurs and Treants all very useful too (all less then 10 ini)... I could go on... do I need to?

I get NO USE out of the worthless Demons... they are hands-down the most useless unit in the game of all factions.

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Postby Gus » Jun 3 2006, 12:37

Wolfshanze wrote:I find Golems, Minotaurs and Treants all very useful too (all less then 10 ini)... I could go on... do I need to?

exactly, why do you think these are useful and the demons are not?

I get NO USE out of the worthless Demons... they are hands-down the most useless unit in the game of all factions.

"hands-down" you say. once again, talking in absolutes... are you some kind of H5 genius, who knows everything about the game, how everything should be, and what are the exact strengths and weaknesses of every unit and faction in the game?
seriously, you are of course entitled to your opinions, and i even share some of them, but you should stop presenting what you think as the Absolute Truth.

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Postby Wolfshanze » Jun 3 2006, 13:26

Gus wrote:
Wolfshanze wrote:I find Golems, Minotaurs and Treants all very useful too (all less then 10 ini)... I could go on... do I need to?

exactly, why do you think these are useful and the demons are not?

I get NO USE out of the worthless Demons... they are hands-down the most useless unit in the game of all factions.

"hands-down" you say. once again, talking in absolutes... are you some kind of H5 genius, who knows everything about the game, how everything should be, and what are the exact strengths and weaknesses of every unit and faction in the game?
seriously, you are of course entitled to your opinions, and i even share some of them, but you should stop presenting what you think as the Absolute Truth.

Well you must be some kind of genius because you are so sure I (and everbody else apparently) am wrong, when everbody but you says demons are basically useless... I'm so glad we have you to let everyone else know demons are so useful.

The rest are useful and demons are not because the rest cast spells, have considerably strpnger hit points, deal out more damage, have double-strikes, are archers, have useful specials, etc, etc, etc.

THE DEMON HAS NONE OF THIS.

You can speak of absolutes if it's the truth:

The sun will rise tomorrow morning.
Death and taxes are certain.
The Demon is worthless.
When you say the Demon is "fine as-is" you don't know what you're talking about.

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Gus
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Postby Gus » Jun 3 2006, 13:37

Wolfshanze wrote:Well you must be some kind of genius because you are so sure I (and everbody else apparently) am wrong, when everbody but you says demons are basically useless... I'm so glad we have you to let everyone else know demons are so useful.

oh no, i have not said you were wrong or that demons were good. I'm just saying that you need more than saying "this is bad" for it to actually be bad.
Oh, and generalizations are fun, but when you say "everybody" you forget the couple of guys before me who said they thought demons were cool.

The rest are useful and demons are not because the rest cast spells

Overseers explode

have considerably strpnger hit points

ranking of unupgraded level 2, HP x growth:
1. Zombie (255 HP/week)
2. Gargoyle (210 HP/week)
3. Demon (195 HP/week)
4. Blade Dancer (108 HP/week)
5. Blood Maiden (90 HP/week)
6. Archer (84 HP/week)

deal out more damage, have double-strikes, are archers, have useful specials, etc, etc, etc.

and different cost, and different level, etc, etc, etc.

You can speak of absolutes if it's the truth:
The sun will rise tomorrow morning.
Death and taxes are certain.

that's proven indeed.

The Demon is worthless.

it takes more than one spoiled child screaming it at every occasion to make it true =)

You don't know what you're talking about.

at least, i'm not the one resorting to personal attacks and CAPS to make my point and conceal the lack of thought and proofs of what i'm saying ;)

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Postby ThunderTitan » Jun 3 2006, 13:48

Wolfshanze wrote:The sun will rise tomorrow morning.


Mostly because if the sun doesn't rise it's not morning. That's why it aplies to the poles too. :tongue:

Wolfshanze wrote:Death and taxes are certain.


Guess you never heard of Tax Havens.
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Alamar
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Postby Alamar » Jun 3 2006, 14:34

Am I the only one that thinks that it's a little premature to "fix" a large handul of creatures at this point?

If you HAVE to fix something then my suggestion would be to go to where their REAL weakness lies ..... it's a long time before they get any ranged support / upgrades / etc. If you reduced the build costs in the castle to allow you to get Succubi, Nightmares, various upgrades, etc. more quickly then I think that you'd be in better shape.

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Postby Crags_Legacy » Jun 3 2006, 16:43

Altho Alamar may be right, i think we can take the risk of giving out some opinions about how to "fix" or help out the inferno town (i honestly think they need a small buff somehow). Imho as always i would:

-Give full teleport and no retaliate to Archs, forget Pit summoning.
-Beef up the demon tier somehow (maybe tune up how explosion works, or beef speed)
-Lower some costs on the way to succubi building

Balance is the Hell of multiplayer games, so we are in-theme :devil:

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Postby Alamar » Jun 4 2006, 22:54

Crags_Legacy wrote:Altho Alamar may be right, i think we can take the risk of giving out some opinions about how to "fix" or help out the inferno town (i honestly think they need a small buff somehow). Imho as always i would:

-Give full teleport and no retaliate to Archs, forget Pit summoning.
-Beef up the demon tier somehow (maybe tune up how explosion works, or beef speed)
-Lower some costs on the way to succubi building

Balance is the Hell of multiplayer games, so we are in-theme :devil:


On the assumption that something needs to be fixed then I'd prefer to tweak Demons instead of Archs [no retal is brutal]. As far as explosion goes it might be nice [but hard to mod] to let the demons select explosion, then act normally, then once their action is over however many demons that are left explode.

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Postby Wolfshanze » Jun 5 2006, 0:00

For those that are dead-set against the changes I proposed and changed in my little mod, I'm also under the assumption you've never played with the mod either for or against you.

I've been using the mod, and mostly the computer is using Inferno against me... I find the mod refreshing and challenging without being overbearing.

For all the "you can't possibly do that" people... why not try it before judging it. You might actually be surprised just how well it DOES WORK.


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