damage calculations etc.

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.
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ThunderTitan
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Unread postby ThunderTitan » 28 May 2006, 14:42

DaemianLucifer wrote: Whats the deal with wasp swarm anyway?Its the most useless spell Ive ever seen.So it does small damage to living creatures.Wow!Very usefull!
Back when it made the creature lose some initiative it was great. Maybe too good. But they could have just reduced the inititive loss. Now it's rather useless.
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Unread postby Gaidal Cain » 28 May 2006, 17:31

Actually, it still makes creature lose initiative- but I think you need to have taken Summoning magic for it to do that.
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Unread postby ThunderTitan » 28 May 2006, 17:42

You're right GC. Guess it's not that useless after all. Just useless on the Sprite.
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Unread postby mctronic » 29 May 2006, 04:07

When a hero attacks, how is it calculated ?

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Unread postby asandir » 29 May 2006, 04:33

was really disappointed about the wasp swarm change, sure the sprites were overpowered, but hey, they were sweet!!! ;-)

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Unread postby Nebs » 29 May 2006, 07:23

mctronic wrote:When a hero attacks, how is it calculated ?

Code: Select all

<Melee>
				<HeroDamageLevel1>
					<Item>2</Item>
					<Item>1</Item>
					<Item>0.8</Item>
					<Item>0.5</Item>
					<Item>0.3</Item>
					<Item>0.2</Item>
					<Item>0.1</Item>
					<Item>0.01</Item>
				</HeroDamageLevel1>
				<HeroDamageLevel30>
					<Item>12</Item>
					<Item>9</Item>
					<Item>6.5</Item>
					<Item>4.5</Item>
					<Item>3</Item>
					<Item>2</Item>
					<Item>1.5</Item>
					<Item>0.15</Item>
				</HeroDamageLevel30>
			</Melee>
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee/forums/a/ ... 8091019744

Now, as sfidanza there said, from this above, level 1 hero will do enough damage to kill 2 level 1 creatures, or 1 lv.2, or 0.8 lv.3, and so on. While level 30 hero can cause damage to kill 12 lv.1 critters, and all the way to 1.5 lv.7 creatures. And damage is linear.

Here's sheet with all the damage (actually how many critters they can 'kill') for level 1-50 heroes. Hope it's right, I might've screwed some formula.

Sheet


Also, slightly offtopic, but if anyone is interested, 500000 druids have 107 spell power. :D

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Unread postby asandir » 29 May 2006, 07:38

damn - 107 spell power ... WOW

/end sarcasm

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Unread postby DuRieL » 29 May 2006, 08:24

Nebs wrote:Also, slightly offtopic, but if anyone is interested, 500000 druids have 107 spell power. :D
The power...!

Err... how much damage is that anyway?

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Unread postby asandir » 29 May 2006, 08:30

1498

wow, that's 0.003 per druid .... YEEEHHAWWWWW

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Unread postby DuRieL » 29 May 2006, 08:35

stefan.urlus wrote:1498

wow, that's 0.003 per druid .... YEEEHHAWWWWW
YES! I see how this all damage adds up exponentially... not.

Can't believe it's intended like this. Go figure :devious: .

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Unread postby Pitsu » 29 May 2006, 08:44

Good info about hero damage. Added to the CH page (+ names of some key people).
Nebs wrote: Also, slightly offtopic, but if anyone is interested, 500000 druids have 107 spell power. :D
That is interesting. I wonder how you got that many druids. Editing the map file? Anyway, it convinces me that the funcion is logathmic. level = log(a function of stack/weekly growth)*something else. No values that i have tried give perfect hits over the whole data range though. Starting to think that it may be easier to find the solution from the game files...

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Unread postby DaemianLucifer » 29 May 2006, 11:36

Well its way better than in HIV 100 genies doing some 1000+ damage.

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Unread postby Pitsu » 29 May 2006, 16:04

Nebs wrote:
mctronic wrote:When a hero attacks, how is it calculated ?

Code: Select all

<Melee>
				<HeroDamageLevel1>
					<Item>2</Item>
					<Item>1</Item>
					<Item>0.8</Item>
					<Item>0.5</Item>
					<Item>0.3</Item>
					<Item>0.2</Item>
					<Item>0.1</Item>
					<Item>0.01</Item>
				</HeroDamageLevel1>
				<HeroDamageLevel30>
					<Item>12</Item>
					<Item>9</Item>
					<Item>6.5</Item>
					<Item>4.5</Item>
					<Item>3</Item>
					<Item>2</Item>
					<Item>1.5</Item>
					<Item>0.15</Item>
				</HeroDamageLevel30>
			</Melee>
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee/forums/a/ ... 8091019744

Now, as sfidanza there said, from this above, level 1 hero will do enough damage to kill 2 level 1 creatures, or 1 lv.2, or 0.8 lv.3, and so on. While level 30 hero can cause damage to kill 12 lv.1 critters, and all the way to 1.5 lv.7 creatures. And damage is linear.
Doh, did someone actually test it? I have problems with getting correct values in most cases. Am i missing something? :mad:

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Unread postby Gaidal Cain » 29 May 2006, 16:14

DaemianLucifer wrote:Well its way better than in HIV 100 genies doing some 1000+ damage.
It's not. The problem in H4 was that one genie did too much damage, and it added up. Here, one Druid does enourmous damage, while large stacks hardly do any, when compared to another stack the size.
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Unread postby Nebs » 29 May 2006, 16:14

Yep, same here. Getting really close results, but not exactly the same ones as they should be. For example, my lv.23 hero did 55 damage to imps, so killing 9.16 of them...and if going by formula, should be 9.59. Will play around and test some more in an hour or so.

Could those 0.01, and 0.15 values have something with it?

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Unread postby Pitsu » 29 May 2006, 16:39

Nebs wrote:
Could those 0.01, and 0.15 values have something with it?
Maybe. Myfirst thought was that the attack/defense still count, but they do not. And in some case I got quite different results like killing 6 griffins instead of suggested 4...

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Unread postby Nebs » 29 May 2006, 18:01

Some results from testing...Hero level 1-10, 15, 20, 30 and 50 vs skeletons (hp 4), demons (hp 13) and succubus (hp 20). Different than they 'should' be, and also, that code from the game seems wrong for lv.30 hero.

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Unread postby Pitsu » 29 May 2006, 21:39

At least the relationship is linear and looks like one can find out equations for each creature level.

Coming back to caster creatures: As we already know the damage = base damage * spell power, where spellpower = a base value + a function of stack size.

I did look at archmagi, pit lords and sprites and also at druid data that Nebs posted here. Except for stacks less than 5 creatures the following function works fine IMO

Spell power = base + trunc(9.13*ln(1+stack size/ weekly growth of the creature)

1+size/growth makes sense, since it is always >1 and therefore ln of it is always >0. size/growth characterizes how many weeks you have had to wait for this stack and how far in the game you could be. No idea yet where that 9.13 (or a close value) comes from and why the small stacks of high growth units do not follow this eq...

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Unread postby asandir » 30 May 2006, 01:35

well that clears up the formula .... but i still don't think it is a great idea to limit the casters damage quite so much

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Unread postby HenL » 07 Jun 2006, 17:47

stefan.urlus wrote:well that clears up the formula .... but i still don't think it is a great idea to limit the casters damage quite so much
Horrible idea :/.. Making mass low number stacks much more effective is bad imo.. It's already good for taking retaliations and casting buffs\debuffs..


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