Do you miss stronghold?

[DaemianLucifer]

Mishmash as in there's no hard connection between the creatures. Sure, they all serve the mages, but that goes without saying in any town, that the creatures serve the heroes.

Apart from gremlins,there are only two types of creatures:Summoned and constructed ones.So there isnt a mishmash.Im not counting mages,because they are the rulers of the town.

[Ethric]

And not to forget, they're all physical in nature, so that makes them all the same. Oh, and they all have heads. And all manner of other arbitrary similarities

[TomVenom]

I said No, because, for me, I found them quite b*st*rd , like the Lizard Faction. Each of these factions include lots of units that don't really match to the traditional Heroic Fantasy Bestiary.
Nevertheless, I miss some specifical units like the gobelins, orcs, or dwarves. I think dwarves should be so much necessary in this kind of game! Basic Orcs, Gobelins and Wolves, and their respective upgrades should be only available as Neutral Creatures on maps. Moreover, the other Creatures like the stupid cows, or Thunderbird are fully useless... Cyclops come from the Greek Mythology and are completely out of subject in Heroic Fantasy, in my opinion.

[Metal Wolf]

So you can have a fortress town the same way. Have gnolls or lizards or whatnot as heroes and angle the creatures saying they all serve them and they're unified in their swampyness or outcastedness or seclusiveness or something like that.

So what you're saying is that there is no such thing as a certain type of creature on which every town is based on (giving the Academy as an "example"), right ?
Fine, you are more than welcome to tell me "told you so" when we'll see a Fortress town in the Expansion Pack, purely consisting of animals and beasts who serve lizardsmen/gnoll heroes...

Look carefully at what I've said before:
"....they simply couldnt make other roles for the mages except a spellcaster unit since, well, they're mages! They can't be fighters, flyers (riding a flying unit still makes one a figher) or something else...."

THAT is the reason there is only one "type" of mages, the dominant creature of the Academy, in this faction - and therefore the loose connection between him and the other units. If it were possible, they WOULD have added more "types" of mages (just like in other factions, who have 3 types of elves/5 types of humans, etc..) but its not possible, as explained above.

So, due to Nival's new view on how a town should look like in HOMM V it is impossibe to bring back the Fortress or even a Fortress-like faction IMO. The only thing I can imagine is something like what innokenti mentioned - A Faction with beastmasters (some sort of humanoids) who will be the dominant creatures of the castle and while using animals for their own purposes, there will probably be more than 1-2 humanoid creatures for hire.

But again, bringing back the Stronhold seems much more logical to me

[Marzhin]

I said No, because, for me, I found them quite b*st*rd , like the Lizard Faction. Each of these factions include lots of units that don't really match to the traditional Heroic Fantasy Bestiary.
Nevertheless, I miss some specifical units like the gobelins, orcs, or dwarves. I think dwarves should be so much necessary in this kind of game! Basic Orcs, Gobelins and Wolves, and their respective upgrades should be only available as Neutral Creatures on maps. Moreover, the other Creatures like the stupid cows, or Thunderbird are fully useless... Cyclops come from the Greek Mythology and are completely out of subject in Heroic Fantasy, in my opinion.

Most Fantasy stuff came from mythology. Some are from norse/celt mythology (elves, dwarves, dragons), some from greek or roman mythology (cyclops, orcs and ogres - the names originated from the god of death Orcus -, titans or medusas), some from arabic mythology (djinns, efreets, nagas - or is this one from India ?)

Without mythology, there is no Fantasy.

[DaemianLucifer]

Oh, and they all have heads.

The djinn doesnt

[TomVenom]

I said No, because, for me, I found them quite b*st*rd , like the Lizard Faction. Each of these factions include lots of units that don't really match to the traditional Heroic Fantasy Bestiary.
Nevertheless, I miss some specifical units like the gobelins, orcs, or dwarves. I think dwarves should be so much necessary in this kind of game! Basic Orcs, Gobelins and Wolves, and their respective upgrades should be only available as Neutral Creatures on maps. Moreover, the other Creatures like the stupid cows, or Thunderbird are fully useless... Cyclops come from the Greek Mythology and are completely out of subject in Heroic Fantasy, in my opinion.

Most Fantasy stuff came from mythology. Some are from norse/celt mythology (elves, dwarves, dragons), some from greek or roman mythology (cyclops, orcs and ogres - the names originated from the god of death Orcus -, titans or medusas), some from arabic mythology (djinns, efreets, nagas - or is this one from India ?)

Without mythology, there is no Fantasy.

sure you're right, I agree with you on many points, nevertheless I persist to think that cyclops, thunderbird, lizardmen or the mighty cows (can't remember the exact name) are useless here.
I wasn't enough clear, I wanted to talk only about the traditional Heroic Fantasy bestiary.
But no problem you re absolutely right about the mythology.

A point that is quite strange with me: I really like nordic mythology as well as arabic mythology, but cyclops and greek mythology is not very sexy for me.

[Marzhin]

sure you're right, I agree with you on many points, nevertheless I persist to think that cyclops, thunderbird, lizardmen or the mighty cows (can't remember the exact name) are useless here.
I wasn't enough clear, I wanted to talk only about the traditional Heroic Fantasy bestiary.

You can blame Dungeon & Dragons, as most of the creatures from the various Might and Magic games (such as the cow-like Gorgon) were taken from D&D Manual of Monsters...

But aren't lizardmen definitely part of the traditional Fantasy bestiary ?

[ThunderTitan]

Each of these factions include lots of units that don't really match to the traditional Heroic Fantasy Bestiary.

You need to read more. Alot more....

What do you consider traditional Heroic Fantasy Bestiary?!

As for the greek myth not being "sexy": might be all the pederasty.

[TomVenom]

sure you're right, I agree with you on many points, nevertheless I persist to think that cyclops, thunderbird, lizardmen or the mighty cows (can't remember the exact name) are useless here.
I wasn't enough clear, I wanted to talk only about the traditional Heroic Fantasy bestiary.

You can blame Dungeon & Dragons, as most of the creatures from the various Might and Magic games (such as the cow-like Gorgon) were taken from D&D Manual of Monsters...

But aren't lizardmen definitely part of the traditional Fantasy bestiary ?

wow , what an affair
no way for blaming anything here. Just wanted to give my opinion and my reason.

bye.

[Marzhin]

wow , what an affair
no way for blaming anything here. Just wanted to give my opinion and my reason.

bye.

I was just mocking the lack of imagination of the Might and Magic bestiary... They don't teach "sarcasm" in school anymore ?

Well, maybe they never did actually

[ThunderTitan]

no way for blaming anything here. Just wanted to give my opinion and my reason.
bye.

Were still waiting for the reasons. Please indulge us.

[TomVenom]

As for the greek myth not being "sexy": might be all the pederasty.

naturally , I should have to use another term : "attractive"

(always in my PoV)


...

[Ethric]

So what you're saying is that there is no such thing as a certain type of creature on which every town is based on (giving the Academy as an "example"), right ?

No. There are predominant creatures, but their predominance varies from town to town. I just find it odd that you can conclude so bombastically that you know exactly how nival thinks and that there can't *possibly* be a fortress-like town. Sure there can, you just need some creatures that fit more or less together and a background story that fills in why it is like it is.

[innokenti]

Screw traditional fantasy to be honest. Combination, innovation etc etc - everything can be done in a good and stylish way. Frankly, if you're sticking to traditional Heroic Fantasy you need to define it, and you probably can't. And if you can - it's limited and therefore is rubbish.

As to what Nival can and can't do - they can do absolutely anything. They may have put in a human town with 5 humans... but that's the case for all Heroes games. Academy controlled by mages? All other Heroes games - BINGO. If they wanted, and knew how to, they could put in a Fortress town again. Or a stronghold.

They are the masters of the game!

[Metal Wolf]

So what you're saying is that there is no such thing as a certain type of creature on which every town is based on (giving the Academy as an "example"), right ?

No. There are predominant creatures, but their predominance varies from town to town.

Well, thats just what I've been trying to say before - yet you kept persisting that the mages are not the dominant creature of the academy...

I just find it odd that you can conclude so bombastically that you know exactly how nival thinks and that there can't *possibly* be a fortress-like town. Sure there can, you just need some creatures that fit more or less together and a background story that fills in why it is like it is.

Excuse me, but I've said "IMO" more than just a few times....However, I do not intend to say it at the end of every sentence.

And, have you read what I've written carefully, you would have noticed that I DID suggest an alternative Fortress-like town.

[Ethric]

Well, thats just what I've been trying to say before - yet you kept persisting that the mages are not the dominant creature of the academy...

What I said was that mages aren't the dominant race of the academy. As they aren't a race. If you equate the mage with the wizard hero class of the academy then they are of course the dominant creature.

It seems very limiting and artifical to limit yourself to viewing each faction as being based upon one dominant race. Rather, view each faction as a faction, where the various members of the faction have come together for common reasons. That reason could be race, like the haven. But it could also be something else, like the academy: some creatures are magical or use magic, while others are the product of magic, while some simply serve. That way you can add practically anything as long as you do it and explain it in a way that makes sense in a way.

Excuse me, but I've said "IMO" more than just a few times....However, I do not intend to say it at the end of every sentence.

Adding IMO before\after "ain't gonna happen", "it is impossible" etc doesn't quite negate the feeling of bombasticness

[DaemianLucifer]

What I said was that mages aren't the dominant race of the academy. As they aren't a race. If you equate the mage with the wizard hero class of the academy then they are of course the dominant creature.

Well you could say that humans are the predominant race here.

[ThunderTitan]

I don't get what's the problem. Fortress already had lizardmen as a race. If i know my WH right as long as it has scales it's a lizardman. Naga's and medusas fit in just fine. So do all the other reprilian creatures.

[Metal Wolf]

It seems very limiting and artifical to limit yourself to viewing each faction as being based upon one dominant race. Rather, view each faction as a faction, where the various members of the faction have come together for common reasons. That reason could be race, like the haven. But it could also be something else, like the academy: some creatures are magical or use magic, while others are the product of magic, while some simply serve.

Viewing? phhh... this is not a point of view, man. Every other town IS based on one creature type, and that is not an opinion - thats a fact. Sure every race (yeah yeah, mage is not a race) has its allies (who quite differ from the main creature) but saying that the dungeon is not the domain of the dark elves or the Haven is not the domain of the humans is a mistake, and thats NOT "IMO". You may exclude the Academy- on which we can, as it seems, have philosophic debates until the expansion pack comes out - but I hardly imagine someone disagreeng with that about the other factions. Read the official biographies of each faction if you will.

Excuse me, but I've said "IMO" more than just a few times....However, I do not intend to say it at the end of every sentence.

Adding IMO before\after "ain't gonna happen", "it is impossible" etc doesn't quite negate the feeling of bombasticness

Ohhh I'm so sorry you've got this terrible "feeling of bombasticness".

Obviously you can't convince me that you are right, and I can't convince you (partially because you won't listen but rather pick on on some specific meaningless word like "race" or "impossible"), so before it gets off topic I'd rather end this private discussion. Surely you are going to say the last word so you'll feel good with yourself but thats fine with me.