[Universe] What do you think of Ashan ?

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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What do you think of Ashan ?

Great world ! Exactly the universe HoMM needed.
10
11%
A decent, but not very innovative, fantasy world.
31
34%
It's not Might and Magic anymore, it's Warhammer of Dungeons and Dragons.
8
9%
The old universe, with Ancients and Kreegans, was far batter.
20
22%
The old universe, with Ancients and Kreegans, was far batter.
20
22%
Who cares about the universe, anyway ?
2
2%
 
Total votes: 91

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Marzhin
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[Universe] What do you think of Ashan ?

Postby Marzhin » May 22 2006, 14:18

Now that the game is out and we're starting to experience the lands of Ashan, what do you think of it ?

As far as I'm concerned, even if I do like Heroes V, I think the world is quite poor. I miss the old M&M universe, which was richer and more original, due to the Science-Fiction background. Ashan is a very cliché fantasy world, with too many elements taken from D&D or Warhammer (especially the Dark Elves). Even Axeoth was more subtle and interesting. Ubi promised a "darker, more mature" world, but in fact, I can't help but feel all the characters are desperatly goody-two-shoes. Where are the true villains ?

For the moment, Ashan is far from the quality and depth of Enroth or Xeen. But that's only my opinion. What's yours ?

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Postby Darkstroem » May 22 2006, 14:49

I voted for the second one. I don't know the old M&M world so good.

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Postby Kalah » May 22 2006, 15:10

Well, it seems fairly good - lots of work has obviously been put into it. But I can't help at thinking "haven't I seen this before somewhere?"..

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Postby ThunderTitan » May 22 2006, 15:17

Kalah wrote:"haven't I seen this done better before somewhere?"..


You missed 2 letters. :tongue:

It's not bad, but it's not very good either. And it's not Warhammer only. There's also Ebberon, FR and some Blackmoon Chronicles (mostly style) in there.
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Postby DuRieL » May 22 2006, 15:46

True, the previous universes had more going for them. It's not like this is downright awful, but it could use a creativity boost.

However... the archetypal universe isn't a really pressing issue with H5, unlike some other things *cough* :nervous: .

Voted 2nd choice.

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Postby Orfinn » May 22 2006, 15:49

ThunderTitan wrote:
Kalah wrote:"haven't I seen this done better before somewhere?"..


You missed 2 letters. :tongue:

It's not bad, but it's not very good either. And it's not Warhammer only. There's also Ebberon, FR and some Blackmoon Chronicles (mostly style) in there.


You see its not easy to make a fantasy game without bumping into or take ideas from other fantasy settings, on purpose or not.

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Postby Zamolxis » May 22 2006, 16:16

I doubted so much between the 2nd & 3rd option that it doesn't even matter which was my choice.

I don't find the universe very innovative, and the clichés in there are not even among the clichés that I like. :p

There's also an unexcusable amount of Warhammer and D&D in the game, but I don't have the feeling they kicked out the "Might & Magic" componet, but the "Heroes" one. We have might and we have magic, but we don't have real heroes.

The topic starter complains that all characters are "desperatly goody-old-shoes" and that there are no true villains. He might be right. He might be a fan of the bad guys, not finding them in the game. Acutally, come to think of it, the so called bad guys are not as frightening & impressive as they could be (except for Olivier's overdone artworks, with an endless amount of pointy things on their kitch outfits). But I didn't notice that, as I'm a fan of the good guys, and I also can't seem to find any of them in the game. The noble ideas from previous games where turned into greed & revenge.

So yeah, I don't like the new universe for two reasons:

1. Too much Warhammer and D&D

2. No Heroic feeling

But, unlike the topic starter, there's one thing I like about this universe as compared to the previous one - no techs. Technology for me kills the beauty of magic and I think there are other ways of avoiding clichés than introducing techs in a fantasy game.

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Postby DuRieL » May 22 2006, 16:36

Zamolxis wrote:But, unlike the topic starter, there's one thing I like about this universe as compared to the previous one - no techs. Technology for me kills the beauty of magic and I think there are other ways of avoiding clichés than introducing techs in a fantasy game.


I agree that "tech & fantasy" isn't a good pair.

Except that... I don't recall the previous setting [H4's Axeoth] being anymore technologically advanced than this one. In fact, H5's setting could be considered more advanced, since the gremlins have guns utilizing gunpowder -- and to my memory, no such things were in H4, or H3, for that matter.

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Postby Marzhin » May 22 2006, 16:43

Zamolxis wrote:But, unlike the topic starter, there's one thing I like about this universe as compared to the previous one - no techs. Technology for me kills the beauty of magic and I think there are other ways of avoiding clichés than introducing techs in a fantasy game.


I totally agree, what I say is there was technology from the beginning of the Might and Magic series and it was part of what made Might and Magic unique.

Zamolxis wrote:But I didn't notice that, as I'm a fan of the good guys, and I also can't seem to find any of them in the game.


Agreed again, but I think good guys really shine when they fight a truly evil foe ;)

DuRiel wrote:Except that... I don't recall the previous setting [H4's Axeoth] being anymore technologically advanced than this one. In fact, H5's setting could be considered more advanced, since the gremlins have guns utilizing gunpowder -- and to my memory, no such things were in H4, or H3, for that matter.


The SF part was only part of the background of those universes. The worlds were actually created artificially by the Ancients for some mysterious purpose. The Sf background was never shown in the Heroes game, but in the Might and Magic series (that took place in the same universe). In MM6 and 7, you could even get blasters, even if it was a very bad idea ;|
Last edited by Marzhin on May 22 2006, 16:52, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby DaemianLucifer » May 22 2006, 16:45

Voted "It's not Might and Magic anymore, it's Warhammer of Dungeons and Dragons."

First the geography:Europe clones are so dull.Either make a new world,or set it in paralel europe,but dont make a europe wanna be and call it a new world.

Creation:Dragon gods.Yawn!

Factions:Now I didnt expect this!It was such a surprise to see demons as evil and humans as good!I wouldve never guessed.

Story:So far it is pretty lame,demons are locked in a prison and the eclipse sets them free.Originality is at zero.

Oh,and theres a lot of WC here.

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Postby ThunderTitan » May 22 2006, 18:07

Orfinn wrote:You see its not easy to make a fantasy game without bumping into or take ideas from other fantasy settings, on purpose or not.


That's why I added "done better"! And HoMM already had it's own setting. There was no need to redo it in the image of WH or D&D.
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Postby Gaidal Cain » May 22 2006, 22:56

I don't know much about this new world, I've played through close to five campaigns and I've not learned a lot about the world yet... There's not very much explaining or backstory going on, except for the bits about Nicholai's father's time. I've played the Dark Elf campign, but apart from the fact that they lives in clans, I don't know more about them than when I started playing :|
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Postby innokenti » May 23 2006, 0:12

Well, I agree with most of the sentiments here. The world is a poor showing both compared with previous HoMM worlds and generally bad objectively.

Again, I do wonder about who really was getting on with doing it because Nival per se aren't bad at creating worlds at all (see Evil Islands, one of the most original fantasy universes I've seen that properly utilises some common cliches etc). Whatever, doesn't really matter. It just doesn't have a feel at all which isn't helped by europe clone, obvious stereotypes carelessly used, no world development in-game, no real personalities.

It all comes down to having no spirit basically.


Just as a side-point, there are always innovative ways of combining tech and magic and always ways to create original fantasy universes, I've seen it being done recently. The former by a friend of mine and myself and the latter by Steven Erikson.

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Postby Kareeah Indaga » May 23 2006, 0:23

Vote for option #4

Though #3 and #4 seem like basically the same idea, rephrased. :|

Zamolxis wrote: Technology for me kills the beauty of magic and I think there are other ways of avoiding clichés than introducing techs in a fantasy game.


I disagree, but then you already knew that. ;)

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Postby DaemianLucifer » May 23 2006, 1:24

innokenti wrote:Just as a side-point, there are always innovative ways of combining tech and magic and always ways to create original fantasy universes, I've seen it being done recently. The former by a friend of mine and myself and the latter by Steven Erikson.


Sure there are ways,but Ive seen so little good worlds with mixed technology and magic.And none in a computer game(yes,I know arcanum is good,but its not that good)

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Postby asandir » May 23 2006, 1:59

i think it is decent, but like most things not as well realised as it could be ... perhaps with further installments in Ashan, the world can acheive a more solid footing, i hope so anyway, now that there is a foundation

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Postby Kaboth » May 23 2006, 3:45

I voted for option 2.

The new universe is nothing remarkable but I didn't feel the old Might and Magic universe was either. I think Nival were right to start from scratch with a new universe even if it is a very cliche one because the old universe had become a convulated mess.

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Postby ThunderTitan » May 23 2006, 5:44

Kaboth wrote: because the old universe had become a convulated mess.


And that's why it blew up.
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Postby asandir » May 23 2006, 6:00

hehehe .... perhaps ;-)

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Postby Marzhin » Jun 16 2006, 10:08

Now that I'm close to the end of the game, I realize there's definitely something weird with the geography of the world. It's totally different in-game compared to the paper map from the limited edition.

(you can see it here : http://www.celestialheavens.com/show_bi ... php?id=173)

For instance, the Silver Cities on the paper map (PM) are south-west of the Holy Griffin Empire. In-game (Necro and Academy campaigns), it seems they are in fact north-west.

On the PM, Irollan is north-west of the HGE. In-game (Sylvan campaign, especially C5M5) it seems to be north-east.

Ygg-chall is supposed to be west of the HGE, but when playing C4M5, where you must reach the Empire's borders, you're coming from the east...

Not to mention Sheogh, which is not on the PM but seems to be everywhere...


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