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The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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Angelspit
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Postby Angelspit » May 15 2006, 19:18

You do know that Fabrice is French too, right?
I'm on Steam and Xbox Live.

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Postby karacha » May 15 2006, 19:42

Fabrice,

I really appreciate you coming here, giving us some info etc. I will buy the game as soon as it comes out. I can also see most of your points, except one: the number of maps you ship with the game is small. Really, really small. It's barely enough to keep us entertained until you have that patch with extra maps and editor ready.

I could care less about campaign maps. I own all heroes games, but I can honestly say I was never very interested in campaigns.

In campaigns we usually have to put up with a very specific way of playing, limited trops, scripted maps etc. What I prefer is a simple open-ended gameplay. And the only way I can enjoy this game is if it has

a) large number of maps and

b) an editor (or a random map generator).

This is the only thing that really worries me. I know people (including me) will create 100's of maps once they get their hands on an editor, but seriously... shipping the game with 6 single-player maps is kinda... weak. Don't you agree?

PS

I hope we can play those multiplayer maps in a single-player mode. Even if this is true, 16 maps is still not much. 30-ish, now that sounds like a decent number.

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Gaidal Cain
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Postby Gaidal Cain » May 15 2006, 20:03

karacha wrote:In campaigns we usually have to put up with a very specific way of playing, limited trops, scripted maps etc. What I prefer is a simple open-ended gameplay. And the only way I can enjoy this game is if it has

This is the only thing that really worries me. I know people (including me) will create 100's of maps once they get their hands on an editor, but seriously... shipping the game with 6 single-player maps is kinda... weak. Don't you agree?


You know, those 6 are probably has varied amounts of the things you said you disliked. On the other hand, you should be able to play the MP maps in single player just fine. ;)
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Postby theGryphon » May 15 2006, 20:53

Yes he said both campaign maps and single player maps are highly scripted, so AI should not be evaluated looking at those. Some people was concerned that this move was taken to hide possible AI flaws, but I'm not pessimistic. MP maps can also be played as SP and AI will reveal itself eventually. But you're right that the number of maps is not at a desired level. Then again, he also said they were striving for high-quality and more maps should be coming not much later. There is nothing to be pessimistic about, it's just that not everything was ready at the initial release.
There was also an idea that one of the reasons why eg the map editor is left out could be that pirated versions will not be able to download such upgrades/patches. Even if it was not what they had in mind, it's really a good side effect.
Although the situation looks as if the game was somewhat rushed, it is substantially different from the HIV case. There are no (major) balance issues and I believe the AI is just uncomparably better that HIV's. Some minor bugs/glitches are always there and can be fixed with one or two patches.
I can't really wait...
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Postby mctronic » May 15 2006, 21:16

I'm a bit concerned with all thoses rumors and Fabrice hasn't changed my mind.

Having bought H4 really disappointed me and now thoses memories are actually comming back. For the 1st time, I'll check with Gamespot and Gamespy reviews before buying the game.

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Postby Campaigner » May 15 2006, 21:29

theGryphon wrote:There was also an idea that one of the reasons why eg the map editor is left out could be that pirated versions will not be able to download such upgrades/patches. Even if it was not what they had in mind, it's really a good side effect.


The guy with that idea doesn't understand much about the scene. The cd-key "protected" updates fo GalCiv II are broken and Heroes V (if they go the same route) will be no exception. Got a hard time believing people to be so naive....

And I'm still wondering about that highscore table!

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Postby Linky » May 15 2006, 21:32

theGryphon wrote:Yes he said both campaign maps and single player maps are highly scripted, so AI should not be evaluated looking at those. Some people was concerned that this move was taken to hide possible AI flaws, but I'm not pessimistic.


Actually, not all the campaign maps are based purely on scripts. About the eighth mission in the campaigns (that would make it the 3rd mission of the 2nd campaign) is more of an open ended (kill everything) mission. Sure, it has scripted events but it also has a computer opponent that doesn't rely on scripts at all. Also, this opponent is capable of whooping your ass if you don't play well enough. This should erase most of the scepicism about the AI. I don't know about specific details though, such as if it plays perfectly, capturing mines etc whenever it can, but it still seems way better than H4's.

Campaigner wrote:And I'm still wondering about that highscore table!


I guess it's pretty safe to say that there won't be one in the initial release. We probably should raise a lot of noise about them applying one in the game. I'm sure it is possible to get one by the time of the first expansion if the developers just get the message.

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Postby Campaigner » May 15 2006, 21:56

theGryphon wrote:About the eighth mission in the campaigns (that would make it the 3rd mission of the 2nd campaign) is more of an open ended (kill everything) mission. Sure, it has scripted events but it also has a computer opponent that doesn't rely on scripts at all. Also, this opponent is capable of whooping your ass if you don't play well enough. This should erase most of the scepicism about the AI. I don't know about specific details though, such as if it plays perfectly, capturing mines etc whenever it can, but it still seems way better than H4's.

Good.

Campaigner wrote:And I'm still wondering about that highscore table!


I guess it's pretty safe to say that there won't be one in the initial release. We probably should raise a lot of noise about them applying one in the game. I'm sure it is possible to get one by the time of the first expansion if the developers just get the message.


I want one in the first patch. I mean, how hard is it to make a good formula and add a "highscore" button on the mainmenu..?
Last edited by Campaigner on May 15 2006, 23:27, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Ethric » May 15 2006, 21:59

Angelspit wrote:You do know that Fabrice is French too, right?


OMG Frenchboy accused Fabrice of being an amercian 8|

Now he'll never post here again :disagree:
Who the hell locks these things?
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Postby DaemianLucifer » May 15 2006, 22:06

theGryphon wrote:There is nothing to be pessimistic about, it's just that not everything was ready at the initial release.


The game was postponed!We told them not to release the game until it is finished!There should be no need for patches! :flame:

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Postby theGryphon » May 15 2006, 22:06

No, they're both French, they should understand each other :D
And, I think Fabrice has a nice sense of humor and could deal even with an American joke :-D
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Postby DaemianLucifer » May 15 2006, 22:08

Campaigner wrote:I want one in the first patch. I mean, how hard is it to make a good formula and add a "highscore" button on the mainmenu..?


But that would slow down the game,and we dont want that :devil:

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Postby Kareeah Indaga » May 16 2006, 5:14

Thank you for attempting to address the concerns of the forum, Fabrice! :wave: It's very nice of you to risk the metaphorical slings and arrows when you could have let it sit until the release. We really appreciate it, and if we don't, we should.

Ethric wrote:
Angelspit wrote:You do know that Fabrice is French too, right?


OMG Frenchboy accused Fabrice of being an amercian 8|


I thought it was amusing, in an odd sort of way. He (?) started an account seemingly for the sole purpose of making a comment based on a stereotype in response to a jest based on a stereotype. And then his (?) assumptions turned out to be incorrect. Tee hee.

Okay, maybe I’m just tired… :snore:

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Postby Ethric » May 16 2006, 8:18

DaemianLucifer wrote:
The game was postponed!We told them not to release the game until it is finished!There should be no need for patches! :flame:


Now that is utter compost. There is no such thing as a finished game, a developer that cares about the game they just made will always find things they could improve. And at a certain point a diligent developer will have found most of the actual bugs\glaring flaws, and even though there are always more of them more searching would not be time well spent. The harder to find bugs require, of course, more time to find, and thus you are spending more time for less result.

This is the ideal. More often than not these days a publisher pushes the game before it's ready and fingers can rightfully be pointed in blame. But saying that there should be no need for patches is just, well, wrong.
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Postby Orfinn » May 16 2006, 9:37

DaemianLucifer wrote:
theGryphon wrote:There is nothing to be pessimistic about, it's just that not everything was ready at the initial release.


The game was postponed!We told them not to release the game until it is finished!There should be no need for patches! :flame:


Tell me which games you have played that didnt have any patches at all?
Patches is pretty useful anyway its always something to fix, something fans finds and a beta test gives not enough time to find them all.

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Postby DaemianLucifer » May 16 2006, 9:47

@Ethric&Orfinn

How can consol games then be finished?They arent being patched,yet most have no bugs or things that need fixing.

And I play civ 4 without a single patch.I downloaded them,but never found time to install them.

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Postby Orfinn » May 16 2006, 10:04

DaemianLucifer wrote:@Ethric&Orfinn

How can consol games then be finished?They arent being patched,yet most have no bugs or things that need fixing.

And I play civ 4 without a single patch.I downloaded them,but never found time to install them.


Belive me console games may not be a bug fest as their computer versions but they are there, and if you gonna patch em up you need a freaking Live account and broadband to get the necessary patches. If you are playing xbox, guess Sony have a similar system.
Anyway, as yourself say there are even patches for Civ 4 but since you dont need to install them well thats just great.

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Postby Malicen » May 16 2006, 10:38

This game is GOOD.

First it was a bit boring. Then I thought the story is a copy of Heroes 3. Then I found out that there is a little turn in storyline (I confess I did not expect that) in the second scenario of the Cultist campaign. Now I'm really interested in what will happen later.
And along the way I discovered that there are some creatures not available for mass production (not in towns). I found a Phoenix. And I found my all time favorite unit DEATH KNIGHT!!!

Give this game a chance. Play Heroes 5. It's not that bad as people here are saying it. Most of things here are exagarated. It has most similarities with H3 the best Heroes game ever.
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Postby Orfinn » May 16 2006, 10:51

You encountered the phoenix and death knight? How was that li....no wait dont spoil it, want the find out by myself :)

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Postby Linky » May 16 2006, 12:50

Malicen wrote:This game is GOOD.
And along the way I discovered that there are some creatures not available for mass production (not in towns). I found a Phoenix. And I found my all time favorite unit DEATH KNIGHT!!!

Give this game a chance. Play Heroes 5. It's not that bad as people here are saying it. Most of things here are exagarated. It has most similarities with H3 the best Heroes game ever.


I agree here. That scenario you are talking about there turned me over. I can tell that it's the same one as you mentioned those two units that we noticed as well. Finishing that map also felt like an accomplishment as well. I saw a bit of the beginning of the next one and it seemed quite interesting as well.


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