Markal and The Invasion Mission

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Markal and The Invasion Mission

Postby Wahooka » Jul 23 2014, 1:29

I'm playing as Markal and Isabel on the level known as "The Invasion" where you have these objectives:

1. Take over 3 mage cities and curse them
2. Get 3 artifacts
3. Destroy the Elf Army
4. Raise 1,000 skeletons

I used Isabel to defend Lorekeep, and she repelled a major invasion. In the meantime, Markal took over the 3 mage cities and fufilled the objectives.

All I had left to do was find the last artifact by defeating the final mage army.

This proved impossible, as this one army started running rampant over the map and re-taking over all the cities I had initially taken, no matter how well I tried to defend them. Even owning 5 cities, its hard to defend them all equally against a large army.

I finally isolated his forces but he has 24 Titans, 190 Mages, 500 Gremlins, 250 Stone Golems, 94 Djinnis, and 250 Obsidian Gargoyles. He keeps casting Phantom Forces and gaining massive advantages.

I have 90 Lord Vampires, 21 Bone Dragons, 1,000 Skeleton Archers, 12 Wraiths, 30 Liches, 12 Wights, and Markal is level 26 at least.

I've lost this battle multiple times and gave up. Markal doesn't seem to have a spell that does much good, the best I can find is Ice Bolt which causes some damage.

Seems I am just out-numbered and maybe I went wrong somewhere in this mission.

Should I re-start the mission, or is there something tactically I can do to still win?

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Postby Pitsu » Jul 24 2014, 6:56

If you have 5 towns you should have quite good creature growth unless you have not developed them at all.
Markal should do better with dark magic: frenzy, confusion, blind etc.

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Postby Wahooka » Jul 24 2014, 19:03

Pitsu wrote:If you have 5 towns you should have quite good creature growth unless you have not developed them at all.
Markal should do better with dark magic: frenzy, confusion, blind etc.


Well lets analyze this:

I have 5 towns, but one is Isabel's town full of a few priests and archers, not something Markal can use. One town is newly captured and has no creatures. Lorekeep is too far to travel to, will take about 6 turns or more.

So I'm more or less stuck with the creatures I have. I could scramble up a larger army in several turns, but by then this last Mage villain from the western most town will be able to take over one or more cities and hire multiple heroes, and rebuild. It seems like once he gets momentum and re-takes a city, he just rebuilds himself very powerfully.

So given the size of his army and my army currently, do you think i can win with those spells? Will those spells work on the Titans and Mages? Can I slow him down enough to cause damage? What about using Raise Dead?

It seems he has a lot of initiative and is getting in lots of attacks on me before I can do anything.

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Postby darkprinceh5 » Jul 30 2014, 22:24

Please tell us your Markal's skill build, and we can help you find a way.

Alternatively, you can upload your save file and let us take a look at it.

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Postby Pitsu » Aug 1 2014, 9:29

Right, the game is such that minor things may have major effects on battle outcome and without having all details it is impossible to tell how to do a particular battle.
Regarding strategy, however, there should be no problem losing some cities as long as you own them the first day of a week. And you should have several heroes running around to deliver troops and hunt weaker enemy heroes if necessary.

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Postby Wahooka » Aug 1 2014, 23:21

Pitsu wrote:Right, the game is such that minor things may have major effects on battle outcome and without having all details it is impossible to tell how to do a particular battle.
Regarding strategy, however, there should be no problem losing some cities as long as you own them the first day of a week. And you should have several heroes running around to deliver troops and hunt weaker enemy heroes if necessary.


The problem with letting him take a city is that he then gets the protection of the citadel, and it makes it harder to defeat him. He can sit there behind the castle wall and rain down attacks on me while my non-artillery creatures get shelled.

He can also cast Phantom Forces all day long and those 500 stacks of creatures can do MAJOR damage behind the wall.

But I guess you're right, it gives me 7 days to mount an attack before he can build up.

Great idea to hire heroes to deliver troops, I wish I had thought of that at the beginning of this mission :)
Last edited by Wahooka on Aug 1 2014, 23:24, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Wahooka » Aug 1 2014, 23:22

darkprinceh5 wrote:Please tell us your Markal's skill build, and we can help you find a way.

Alternatively, you can upload your save file and let us take a look at it.


I will have to get back to you on this in several weeks.

I actually took an oath not to play any Might and Magic 5 until me exams are over :)

Yes, its THAT addictive.

:-D

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Postby vil2 » Aug 5 2014, 8:51

You just have to outgrow the last town.
With 4 or 5 towns, it's easy if you wait enough.
But you have to waste ne time : as sson as you curse an academy, develop it right away ! there are tons of resources on the map so it should not be difficult. You must enable the creature production abilities of all your towns asap. Then it will be piece of cake, you have done the most difficult part.

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Postby Wahooka » Sep 1 2014, 21:56

Okay, my exams are over and I'm ready to take this on.

Thanks for your patience!

I'd rather not outgrow the town, would probably take me like 10 more hours to complete, I want to win right now if possible.

Here are the stats, as I have accurately noted them:

THE GOOD GUYS
-------------------
Markal-LEVEL 21 Necromancer
Spells: Curse of Netherworld, Blindness, Weakness, Vulnerability, Lightning Bolt, Cleansing, Stone Spikes, Mark of Necromancer, Slow, Haste, Divine Strength, Ice Bolt, Eldritch Arrow, Fire Trap, Fists of Wrath, Raise Dead

Army:
16 Wraith
105 Vampire Lord
1020 Skeleton Archer
30 Lich
25 Wight
44 Ghosts OR 19 Vampires (have a choice to make here)
23 Bone Dragon

THE BAD GUYS
-----------------
Maahir- Level 15 Wizard
Spells: Unknown, usually casts Phantom Forces or Reflect

Army:
545 Master Gremlin
142 Archmage
24 Titan
238 Steel Golem
352 Obsidian Gargoyle
93 Djinn Sultan

Is there anyway to win this fight?

NOTE: I tried to cast BLINDNESS on the Titans, and it didn't seem to have any effect on them at all.

Please give any advice as to tactics, etc!!

Thanks!
Last edited by Wahooka on Sep 2 2014, 21:34, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Wahooka » Sep 2 2014, 0:44

Just did this battle about 4 times, I actually am getting pretty close to winning it.

Got him down to 13 Titans and 150 Stone Golems, that was the closest I've ever come.

BUT..

Seems that Maahir gets to cast spells almost 3 times the rate that I do. If I could reduce his frequency, I could win, but he won't stop.

Constantly resurrecting things that I have killed, and constantly casting Phantom Forces over and over, I just can't keep up.

When he casts Phantom Forces, I'm forced to cast Curse of Netherworld to counter, so I can't do much else.

When I focus on the Titans, all the other forces kill me, and I when I ignore the Titans and kill everyone else, the Titans eventually kill me at the end of the battle.

Looking forward to hearing your suggestions.

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Postby darkprinceh5 » Sep 2 2014, 18:26

Thanks for sharing your magic and troops, but as important are your skills.

It is common to have Expert Defense (Vitality&Last Stand or Power of Edurance&Evasion), Expert Dark (three Masters), and Expert Summoning (Expert Sorcery or Expert Enlightenment will help). If you have these skills, you can easily cast mass Slow and mass Weakness in one turn so that the Academy troops are significantly weakened. Then you want to Blind the Djinn Sultan and focus fire on the rest.

1. Titans are immune to mind spells, so don't bother Blinding them.
2. It will be a long battle so you can choose to target the ammo cart first since Master Gremlin only got 7 shots, Archmage got 4, and Titan's got 5.
3. Wraith can eliminate a Titan each turn, make sure you take advantage of that.
4. Phantoms can be countered with Lich's area attack and Stone Spikes if you don't want to wake up the creatures you blinded.
5. 44 Ghosts are better than 19 Vampires as they can attract enemy attacks and get missed. Keep resurrecting them when they fall. If you got Last Stand, these 44 Ghosts would have been your major shield.

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Postby Wahooka » Sep 2 2014, 22:09

Dark Prince, thanks for the advice. I will respond to your points:

Here are my Skills

Expert Necromancy
Expert Destructive Magic --> Master of Ice, Master of Storms, Cold Death
Advanced Sorcery ---> Mana Regeneration
Expert Leadership --> Diplomacy
Expert Attack
Expert Enlightenment
Mark of Necromancer

I forgot to mention that I have RAISE DEAD as a spell, I went back and listed it.

Here are ITEMS that I'm currently not using: Fireball Scroll, Boots of Magical Defense, Unicorn Horn Bow

Okay, so let me comment on your strategy tips:

1. You suggest MASS SLOW or MASS WEAKNESS. If those spells aren't showing up in my spell book, then I assume they aren't an option right now, correct?

2. I wasn't even aware there was an AMMO CART, ...hahaha, lol. What does that do? Are you saying if I destroy the cart, this makes it impossible for those creatures to launch missile attacks? Can they still attack on foot?

3. Wraiths can eliminate Titans? Is that a special ability I can use?

4. I'm still confused about BLINDNESS spell. If I blind the Djinn's, will that blind their Phantom also? You also suggest that blind creatures can be woken up? How does that work?

5. You mentioned Phantom Forces can be countered with Lich Area attacks. Right now, my Lich can only target one person at a time, how do I area attack?

6. As for STONE SPIKES, I think he is using MIRROR on those, but I'll try it. I'm assuming that will eliminate the Phantoms and also nearby forces. That is sort of the same exact thing that CURSE OF THE NETHERWORLD does, which is more practical to use?

Thanks, cool to get some tactics advice, this game is very complicated.

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Postby darkprinceh5 » Sep 3 2014, 1:21

You are welcome. The charm of this game comes from its complexity. Hopefully we'll help you master it soon :)

I have to say that your skill combination is far from optimal. Expert Attack is much less useful compared to Expert Defense/Expert Dark/Expert Summoning.

If the Necromancer is to take one might skill, it would be Defense, rather than Attack. There are many neat skill perks under Defense, Last Stand being one of THE BEST skills to have.

Destructive Magic is ok but Necropolis towns don't have high-level Destructive Magics and usually you'd have trouble learning Implosion, Meteor Shower, etc, which happens to be your case.

If you had got right skills, you would have won this battle without breaking a sweat.

1. You cannot cast Mass Slow without learning the Master of Mind perk under Dark Magic skill. You cannot cast Mass Weakness without learning the Master of Curses perk under Dark Magic skill. Therefore, these options are out.

2. The ammo cart gives range units infinite shots. If you destroy it, enemy range units would have to walk to you to engage in melee after they run out of shots.

3. Wraiths have a special ability. Click "C" on your keyboard and target the titans. The skill is called "Harm Touch." It eliminates one unit per cast and dispels any buffs on that stack of creatures.

4. Phantoms are newly created units and they are not affected by the blind that you casted on the original unit. Blinded creatures can be woken up if they suffer any damage. Therefore, Curse of the Netherworld (COTN) will wake up any units that you have blinded on the battlefield.

5. Lich can target multiple units. Try select your target and see if the area effects show up. Basically, Lich's attack can spread to any adjacent living units (Golems and Gargoyles are not affected, but you can target them and affect their neighbors).

6. Phantoms disappear if they suffer any damage. Therefore, stone spikes can counter them and hit adjacent units. It is better than COTN because COTN can wake your blinded units.

At last, you can cast COTN without having Expert Dark which tells us you must have either a scroll of COTN or the Tome of Dark Magic. Is that the case?

P.S.
1) Please download the fan-made H5 game manual here: http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com/heroes5/game_manuals.shtml. It will address most of your questions.
2) Please play the expansion Heroes 5 Tribe of the East (TOE). It is a stand alone game and includes many improvements/content. There is also a patch 3.1 for TOE <http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/468494-Heroes-V-Tribes-of-the-East-patch-3-1-is-available-!-Forums>. Most people are playing TOE 3.1 now.

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Postby Wahooka » Sep 3 2014, 2:13

Yes, you are correct, I think I have a tome that gives me Curse of the Netherworld.

Yeah, I had a feeling I was training the wrong skills, but EXPERT ATTACK sounded cool at the time, I guess it didn't do much good.

Why is LAST STAND so good though? It says it only leaves the remaining troops with 1 hit point each!!!

Okay, so I'll destroy the Ammo Cart, but then the 24 Titans are just gonna walk over and destroy me on foot, right? :)

I'll take your advice and let you know how the battle goes.
Last edited by Wahooka on Sep 3 2014, 3:18, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Wahooka » Sep 3 2014, 2:41

Okay, just lost again three times:)

Destroyed the AMMO CART, didn't accomplish much in the short term.

HARM TOUCH didn't work for some reason, when I put the cursor over the Titans it was an illegal action. Does it only work on certain creatures or on creatures within a certain range?

Not sure what else to do.

I've tried lots of tactics, staying back and defending, attacking from different flanks, etc...

Do you really think its possible to win this battle, based on the skills and army I have?

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Postby darkprinceh5 » Sep 3 2014, 4:16

Last Stand is SUPER because you can have the stack survived rather than eliminated by the enemy no matter how much damage your stack received. Then you can raise the stack again and the enemy has to attack it again.

If you use a ghost stack which has 50% to evade attacks to block the enemy, you may use it to block at least two enemy blows (maybe even 3) with Last Stand instead of one every time you raise it. This tactic will buy you more turns to throw $%@# on the enemy.

Harm Touch can only be cast when the Wraith can move right next to the enemy stack. It is NOT a range skill. And it will kill one Titan each time the skill is cast.

Your priority should be the following:
Lich take the ammo cart out with one hit and area effect on the adjacent units.
Markal blinds Djinn, then Archmage, then Master Gremlin. Use stone spikes whenever a phantom shows up. Watch the turns that your blinds last and recast them when necessary.
Wraith blocks Titans and harm touches them every turn. Raise Wraith when they die--even one Wraith can kill one Titan each turn!
Skeleton Archer shoot Master Gremlin. Switch to Steel Golem when they get close.
Steel Golems has infinite retaliation--hit them with Skeleton Archer and Vampire Lord, but not when they are far away.
Gargoyle can only retaliate once its own turn. Therefore, use Dragon to absorb that hit then focus fire on it.

One more thing: you have Unicorn Horn Bow, why not equip it? Your main output are the Skeleton Archers. I cannot really think of any other weapons that you can choose over the bow unless you have the Staff of Netherworld.

When everything fails, share your save here.

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Postby Wahooka » Sep 3 2014, 5:13

Thanks for being my armchair general :) Hopefully we can beat this Maahir dude soon.

So if I set up the battlefield so that my Wraith is closer to the Titans, I will probably have to move forward and put the Wraith's in the line of fire, in order to use HARM TOUCH? So the 24 Titans might wipe out the Wraith's as soon as they get close. Is there a way to avoid this?

The reason I haven't equipped the Unicorn Bow is that I do have Staff of the Netherworld, I can't imagine how terrible my initiative stack would be without that 20 percent boost!

Okay, so I will try your tactics, but I will tell you the common sequence that happens usually:

#1 - My 1020 skeleton archers get to attack someone
#2 - Maahir casts Phantom Forces on the 96 Djinns
#3 - Markal gets to act

So if I blind the Djinn, the Phantom Djinn will move in and kill whoever is closest.

That is why I always am forced to use an offensive spell to wipe out the Phantom.

This is the problem in a nutshell.

I never get a chance to blind anyone, because I always have to worry about the Phantoms.

I could follow your advice and ignore the Phantoms, but they are pretty substantial.

Anyhow, I will try this battle at least 10 more times before permanently giving up.

Thanks!

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Postby darkprinceh5 » Sep 3 2014, 5:37

Blind the Djinn is more important.

Arrange your troops so that the Phantom Djinn hits your ghosts. You can then use Vampire to destroy the phantom; if Vampire missed, archers shoot (yes, forget the enemy range units); your ballista may also help (if you have one). The rule is: you cannot miss the phantom more than two times. Therefore, if two previous tries failed, hit the phantom the third time with Wight/Dragon.

Let Lich's first shot finish enemy's ammo cart. Then Lich can help get rid of phantoms as well.

Regarding Wraith, it all depends on your stats vs. enemy's, which you did not reveal in your previous posts. If your def is high, it probably take the Titans two hits to finish your Wraith.

I just realized that you did not upgrade all your troops. Why is that the case? You can free some spots if you had upgrade all Wight to be Wraith. You will also have more Vampire Lords. You can put one Wraith in a stack to Harm Touch Titans.

One more question: how can you have the Blind spell if you don't have Dark Magic skill? You should only be able to carry one scroll, either Blind or COTN. If you have the Tome of Dark Magic, then you should cast Frenzy on enemy units rather than use Blind!!!

As you can see, we are keeping going back and forth because you did not provide full information :) I have to keep guessing what your stats are, your artifacts, and your spells.

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Postby Wahooka » Sep 3 2014, 19:20

Sorry about not providing full information. I am sort of new to this game, I'm not always sure what stuff is important to know.

Stats:

Attack 10
Def 9
Spellpower 15
Knowledge 6
Morale 3
Luck 3
Mana 60/60

I did not upgrade because I don't think I fully developed all cities to produce these creature upgrades, and I didn't take over the building that lets you upgrade.


Yes, definitely have a BLINDNESS scroll.

The reason I have Curse of the Netherworld is not clear to me, I think it was an option at the beginning of the mission to choose this ability, or perhaps I got it somewhere. Not sure, but just trust me that I have it.

I'll try to kill Mahirr today and let you know more progress. I will take notes during the battle :)

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Postby Wahooka » Sep 3 2014, 20:09

Okay, once again came close but no cigar.

Got him down to about 191 Gremlin, 124 Steel Golem, and 16 Titan before I died.

Biggest problem is once he gets in trouble, he keeps resurrecting the Djinn and they invade.

Another problem, can't blind the Mages, they Mirror the spell to the Titans all the time.

Another problem, he sometimes casts Cleansing to unblind people.

Another problem, Harm Touch does not work on Titan unless I get very close, and closing in on him in that range makes the Wraith too vulnerable and they immediately die.

I will try a few more times, but then thats it.

Thanks for your help, came close!


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