H5 - Vampirism. Good, bad, or ugly?

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

Moderator: Moderators

Is Vampirism a good addition to the spells in H5?

Yes
5
56%
No
4
44%
 
Total votes: 9

User avatar
Tyber Zann
Peasant
Peasant
Posts: 52
Joined: 23 Aug 2013
Location: vancouver, B.C. Canada

H5 - Vampirism. Good, bad, or ugly?

Postby Tyber Zann » Sep 5 2013, 21:58

This may seem odd, but I think that of all the new spells that where added in the H5 expansions, Vampirism was a poor choice, or at least poorly executed.

I'll explain.

Basically, Vampirism adds a very powerful spell to a school of magic that is already considered to be the most powerful (dark magic). The other schools got some good stuff (love divine vengeance and blade barrier) but vampirism goes a little too far above and beyond.

Not only does this spell give any unit the life drain ability(I think "living creatures" only, but I'm not certain. Funny to think of golem vampires. Or a vampiric ballista/catapult), but it also gives them the "undead" attribute. This is what causes the spell to nullify Puppet Master.

Undead units are immune to all mind affect spells, including blindness, frenzy, and Puppet Master. Therefore using vampirism to turn a unit undead will then make them immune to these spells and therefor dispel them. If the opposing hero has sandros cloak (which is handed out like a happy meal toy to ur enemies in the campaign), then they can use mind spells on any unit, even undead. However, this only applies when the spell is cast. If an enemy becomes undead after being mind affected, the immunity will kick in immediately and dispel any mind effects.

So, Dark Magic now has a spell that nullifies most other high level dark magic (including vampirism, since u can't drain life from the undead). Some may argue that Puppet master needed a nerfing, but now its just been replaced by an even more annoying spell, as even a PM'd unit can be trapped / cornered / cut off somehow.

Apart from its confusing mechanics, it also robs vampires of their awesomeness.

Vampires where once one of the best units in the game. A fast, flying melee unit with no enemy retaliation and the life drain ability. But now, with the vampirism spell, being a vampire is a fad, like twilight. Any Tom, Dick, or Harry can just become a vampire for a bit and use their awesome power. This shoves ACTUAL vampires somewhere down to the env of the line for reletive strength / usefulness of a unit. Vampires are still good, just not nearly as good since anyone else can mimic their ability. As a big fan of the undead, its just annoying is all.

If anyone disagrees, id enjoy discussing the topic further. Anyone who likes this spell, let me know. Thanks for reading.

zaio-baio
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 15
Joined: 06 Sep 2013

Postby zaio-baio » Sep 6 2013, 11:02

Balance wise the vampirism spell is actually good. It provides the so needed counter vs pupet and frenzy for inferno and it also nerfs the lvl 5 mage guild for magic factions, while making dark magic more valuable choise for might factions. In order to make good use of the spell you need a powerstack + hero with high might stats and possibly luck. So the spell is nothing spectacular if used by necro or academy and almost gamebreaking if casted on a quadriple paladin stack.

Note that the vampirism spell can be cleansed via mass cleansing, its not permanent.

About the vampires - you can actually use the vampirism spell on them and make them steal 150% of the dmg dealt. The problem is that they wont deal that much dmg vs might factions, considering necros low attack stat. Add expert defence, storm wind and mass endurance to that and you will see that the h3 days are past.

In h5 necros main strenght is the easy creeping + easy logistics. Play fast on the map and make sure you have a good artifact, lvl and army advantage over your opponent if you ever let the game go to the latestages.

Here some replays of lategame necro:

Replay1 - rmg map
Replay2 - rmg map
Replay3 - 46 sp necro with ultimate / toh map
Replay4 - toh map

User avatar
Tyber Zann
Peasant
Peasant
Posts: 52
Joined: 23 Aug 2013
Location: vancouver, B.C. Canada

Postby Tyber Zann » Sep 6 2013, 15:18

Ha! I never tried using it on my Vampires. Good call. Since they have no retaliation (the lords anyway, I never use the princes and their "Tarpor" unless iv got soldiers luck which is almost never), no retaliation means their damage isn't as big of a deal, but defense, yeah, I know necro doesn't have the most powerful units, but their undeadness and easy ressurection and cheap cost and the necromancy skill makes up for it.

zaio-baio
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 15
Joined: 06 Sep 2013

Postby zaio-baio » Sep 6 2013, 20:26

Whats even better is the undead transformer ( required to build wrights). It allows you to transform any living creatures into undead troops. So on large maps with multiple castles you have a big advantage. For instance the map has 8 castles in total. You and your opponent start with 1 castle each. Say 1 necro castle for you and 1 haven castle for him. Then as the game proceeds you cover the same amount of the map and each of you captures 3 of the remaining 6 castles. Chances are that you wont have another native town ( lets say he gets 1 elf town, 1 academy town and 1 orc town; you get 1 haven town, 1 inferno town and 1 dungeon town). So the necro player can build all castles and transform their armies to undead. Thats 4x more troops for you vs only 1 haven castle and you will win almost always. However its very hard to do it, becouse its simply too expensive. Note that the same thing works with 4 castles on the map. You both start with 1, then each of you captures another town. No matter what town you capture you can build it and transform its troops to undead, while the non necro player will need to get another native town ( 1/8 chance)


Another good strategy is to get mentoring, mentor all your necro heroes and get exp necromancy with all of them. That will allow you to raise several times more necro troops per week. The downside is that you need to get a high lvl hero, and by the time you do it the game will be most likely decided.

Note that if you get a haven castle you can actually make use of its training, train priests to cavaliers and then transform the cavaliers to wrights :)

You can also raise and transform as much units as you can, and then mentor a knight hero for final battle. With boosted numbers and the knights might stats necros army will be unstoppable.

User avatar
Kalah
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 19998
Joined: 24 Nov 2005

Postby Kalah » Sep 6 2013, 20:46

I don't like vampirism as a spell, just as an ability.
In War: Resolution, In Defeat: Defiance, In Victory: Magnanimity, In Peace: Goodwill.

User avatar
Tyber Zann
Peasant
Peasant
Posts: 52
Joined: 23 Aug 2013
Location: vancouver, B.C. Canada

Postby Tyber Zann » Sep 6 2013, 21:19

Lol, iv always been a cheap *** with the netherworld shrine (like the skeleton transformer from H3), one of my favorite things about em. I miss the "cover of darkness" though.

Also, I found it interesting what the first replier mentioned about the undead and logistics, it being an essential skill, as with demons and swift gating.

This makes sense, cause I always figured that logistics most naturally suited 2 factions, demons and undead. Not because they're fast, but because they don't sleep.

Even if zombies r slow, they can walk 24/7 without needing to sleep or eat or drop a deuce, therefore they could cover more ground in a day than humans, who need access to food and sleep and such. I'm not sure if demons sleep, but I would imagine they don't. "Let's wait till they're asleep, the Cerberi are getting drowzy."

mr.hackcrag
Archangel
Archangel
Posts: 1435
Joined: 05 Jul 2006

Postby mr.hackcrag » Sep 7 2013, 7:09

Kalah wrote:I don't like vampirism as a spell, just as an ability.


This is how I feel.

User avatar
Tyber Zann
Peasant
Peasant
Posts: 52
Joined: 23 Aug 2013
Location: vancouver, B.C. Canada

Postby Tyber Zann » Sep 14 2013, 0:28

Cheers to that gentlemen. What's next, golemism? Or maybe, turn a stack into a stack of frogs! With 1hp, and 1-1 damage, but they're fast and inflict poison.

Why poinson frogs Zehir? "It's the best I could do!!"


Return to “Heroes V-VI”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests