Is this cheating?

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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Wahooka
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Is this cheating?

Postby Wahooka » Aug 4 2013, 15:12

I am using a method of exploring the map for information, and then re-loading the game and exploring a different part of the map.

Do this several times, and you get information on the entire map without committing to anything.

Do you think this is cheating?

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Qurqirish Dragon
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Re: Is this cheating?

Postby Qurqirish Dragon » Aug 5 2013, 10:41

Wahooka wrote:I am using a method of exploring the map for information, and then re-loading the game and exploring a different part of the map.

Do this several times, and you get information on the entire map without committing to anything.

Do you think this is cheating?


In single player, who cares? In multiplayer, you can't do this. I personally never did that, but whatever lets you enjoy the game most is fine.
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mr.hackcrag
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Re: Is this cheating?

Postby mr.hackcrag » Aug 6 2013, 0:54

Qurqirish Dragon wrote:
In single player, who cares?


Obviously, his/her conscience cares. S/he's seeking affirmation to clear that guilt-ridden feeling. Well then, on behalf of the CH community, let me be the first to say... CHEATER! :devil:

Seriously though, if it's not a problem for you, then it shouldn't be a problem for the AI. After all, unless you're using that fabulous AI patch, the AI cheats like crazy.

I do have a lot of respect for players that play maps without saving and loading though. That is the mark of a supreme strategist and tactician. :proud:

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Postby TheMeInTeam » Aug 6 2013, 12:59

These kinds of things are a judgment call. For example, a LOT of maps are decisively easier if you've ever played them before. Take campaign 2 mission 3 for example. If you've never played it before, you'll probably just take the first Sylvan town you see, and while it's possible to win even on heroic doing that, it's much more challenging. By contrast, the map is pretty easy if you run right past it and capture the NW town by early week 2. The direct route is blocked by phoenix, but if you follow the road you'll only fight ~450 zombies and a horde of earth elementals en route. By crushing mine defenders and having a backup hero flag the mines/pick up resources behind you while you charge this 2nd town, one of the hardest maps in all of HOMM V vanilla becomes doable without special magic or difficult setups, even on heroic.

So, are you save scumming for skills? HOMM V doesn't seem RNG-based there. IMO restarting a map for the perfect spells/skills is more "cheap" than reloading a battle you did poorly to try again. I don't see much functional difference between restarting the map and reloading a battle, if the occurrences between the start of that map and said battle are trivial. Let me give an example of what I mean:

- You just lost a big battle because you screwed up (let's say you misclicked and used puppet master on the wrong stack).
- However, all you've done up to that point is mindlessly run back and forth killing hundreds of slow walkers with your ballista + hero attacks, which you could trivially replicate if you were to restart.

In such a scenario, restarting instead of just reloading is silly. IMO just use your judgment. It's not like you can reload in MP anyway.

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Wahooka
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Re: Is this cheating?

Postby Wahooka » Aug 11 2013, 14:16

mr.hackcrag wrote:
Qurqirish Dragon wrote:
In single player, who cares?


Obviously, his/her conscience cares. S/he's seeking affirmation to clear that guilt-ridden feeling. Well then, on behalf of the CH community, let me be the first to say... CHEATER! :devil:

Seriously though, if it's not a problem for you, then it shouldn't be a problem for the AI. After all, unless you're using that fabulous AI patch, the AI cheats like crazy.

I do have a lot of respect for players that play maps without saving and loading though. That is the mark of a supreme strategist and tactician. :proud:


I guess that makes me a dork.

:ill:

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Mirez
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Postby Mirez » Aug 11 2013, 22:08

You could of course read a walkthrough and or just look at the revealed minimap which comes with it. Reloading just for scouting seems rather time consuming to me.
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mr.hackcrag
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Postby mr.hackcrag » Aug 13 2013, 0:16

Also that Silent Stalker skill is really good for scouting so you don't have to load or looks at walkthroughs/maps.

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markkur
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Re: Is this cheating?

Postby markkur » Aug 15 2013, 16:06

Wahooka wrote:Do this several times, and you get information on the entire map without committing to anything.

Do you think this is cheating?


From a mapmakers viewpoint on both Campaigns & individual maps, I would say Nes and Yo. :D
I want people to have fun, so If they want fun...than whatever floats their boat but if they truly want a challenge, then Scouting is part of becoming a WarLord<L>, then previews are cheating the player in learning how to become Hannibal.

My own practice (like many other players) is I would never load & look at a map before playing, that would only be a "have-to" for me, if I just could not figure the layout of the map. Normally when playing a Map, the Maker has set the rules of that world; they will give some Huts to reveal and Aid etc. Honestly I would rather not see the Map-screens here at CH, I far prefer that every unknown step, reveals more to consider; I enjoy using some Scouts with small forces trying to give me vital information while trying to keep them alive. :D

i.e. I just played a well-made map/mod by Mag called Heroes of Axeoth. It was loaded with portals and choke tunnels etc. When I first started playing H5 and saw all those various portals...everywhere (my only minor complaint) I may of had to take a look; but now...I was very patient and methodical. I slowly became aware of the layout and had to make decisions on how to safeguard "known" areas while invading unknown regions. I had to plan and react; to my satisfaction, my plans & back-up plans worked out very well when I had 3 enemy Heroes boxed in by a half-dozen good Heroes serving the new KIng<L>

<imo> Nival probably added cheats instead of dev-time or money because they saw they were needed to make the A.I. "seem" to play better. Q's A.I. is a big step in the right direction; even in it's unfinished stage, it can destroy the casual gamer. Note: After only playing "J" for better than a year, the old A.I. was very near silly.

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Tyber Zann
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Postby Tyber Zann » Sep 13 2013, 15:23

[Campaign 2 mission 3]

That was the first mission that actually stopped me in my tracks and made me have to really think, reload, etc. I spent hours there and.it was my first really immersive experience with H5. Fond memories.

But yeah, once youv played it, it is easier just cause u can do things faster. You know where everything is. I usually use scout heroes to do that, but a lot of missions don't give u extra heroes.

I wouldn't say its cheating, any more than using save/load to win a fight. And we've all done that. It does, however, spoil a bit of the mystery. If its ur first run through, I suggest playing it natural, u only get one first time. On normal difficulty its easy enough u don't have to be super efficient with movement, and if ur playing hard/heroic first run through, kudos. I started with normal, then switched to hard after the Queen missions, tried Heroic with Markal and Raelag missions, but went back down to hard cause Raelag has a super hard mission.

I did use a little load scouting you could call in, but I much prefer not to.

BoardGuest808888
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Postby BoardGuest808888 » Oct 1 2013, 12:25

No, it is not cheating at all.

Rushing blindly to the big dark thing out there is only for knights and fools.

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Tress
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Postby Tress » Oct 1 2013, 16:50

For single player of course not. Under this logic any use of save/load aside to save session would be cheating. And you would have to accept any outcome and replay map after every failure to be somewhat fair. Perhaps this approach would lead to some more interesting situations, but normally game is balanced around fact that you can save load at will, and enemy will be given edge in resources/numbers etc to keep things challenging.


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