Feel Unimaginably Sad: Heroes VI versus Starcraft 2

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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Feel Unimaginably Sad: Heroes VI versus Starcraft 2

Postby cjlee » Jul 21 2013, 19:13

I just finished Starcraft 2 Heart of the Swarm. And felt very sad.

As many people know, I hated Heroes VI and was vocal about it. I gave up this game after playing a borrowed version.

In the past 2 years I have waited for them to sort out all bugs and produce expansions that could bring back races I liked (eg I like to play wizard and titans, and I liked fighting against warlocks and black dragons). For all my rants, of course I was hoping that eventually they could produce a version I was willing to play until Heroes VII.

I have seen nothing even remotely close to promising. Not to mention practically all the news about H VI is bad. Bugs, being locked out of servers, paying and not getting a working game, really pathetic fixes and changes.

So I never got H VI. Instead I gave my money to Blizzard, and really had a blast playing Starcraft 2 despite the gameplay being not what I like.

I like turn based strategy. I liked the Heroes franchise. And now Ubisoft has turned it into... (not saying, since Moderators will censor my words)

Starcraft 2, especially the Zerg race (the current Heart of the Swarm expansion is all about Zerg) is totally not my style. I hate swarming, I hate charging in without thinking, I hate that mindless aggression without sitting back and thinking and calculating the way we all do with Heroes.

But a good game is a good game. For all my grouses, I loved Starcraft. Every damn thing fit together, ranging from unit counters and sub-storylines to the artwork and the music. I did NOT have a single bug, computer slowdown, or computer hanging during the course of my gameplay, which being RTS and involving so many 3D units moving at the same time, was quite demanding on my computer.

Yet Starcraft always loaded faster than Heroes VI. There was no lengthy pause between loaded games. And the storyline and character development was top notch. I actually felt a sinking feeling when the tale ended with the last Zerg mission. I wasn't going to see what happened between Kerrigan and Jim Raynor (the two main characters).

That was way better than my reaction with the incredibly poor storyline in Heroes VI. I mean, Angels with Mothers? Angels turning into devils and having love affairs with people? Children killing their mother after she turned into a dragon? All kinds of dubious storylines and character developments that set my teeth on edge and made me slap my forehead with disgust at every turn.

I'm almost a middle aged man already. I have no time to play many games, so I can only choose one or two. And what do you think I will choose?

Let's say I use the analogy of an RTS as a sports car and a Turn Based game as a sedate family sedan. I don't like sports cars. I prefer ferrying my family around in a family car. But a good quality sports car, like a Porsche, is far better than a hulking, rusted up, barely driveable and incredibly ugly gas guzzling station wagon.

To make things worse, Heroes VI has been an incredible commercial success. (At least, it is making money despite its incredibly poor quality.)

Having just played Zerg and grumbled that swarming tactics were not my style, I can't help but compare Ubisoft with the Zerg and Blizzard with the Protoss. (Sorry, I can't use comparisons drawn from Heroes VI, because the different races are too similar and homogenized. Unlike Heroes II and III where the necromancers did at least have Zerg like tactics in harvesting their enemies' essences and raising vast quantities of troops to swarm, H VI undead are just dead versions of non-undead.)

Ubisoft is like Zerg, it doesn't care about quality, it just spams many versions of the same thing and collects money whenever it can. It improvizes and produces ad hoc fixes. It doesn't care if one version dies or doesn't get enough interest. It just spams another version or some DLC every few months.

Blizzard is like Protoss, it focuses on one or just a small number of versions of the same game, provides support throughout, works very hard on quality and making sure everyone in all countries and all language versions get the same solid game.

Looking at the way things have turned out in the past 2 years, including that Dungeon race that totally failed to inspire me, I won't be buying Heroes VI even if GOG offered it for $0.99.

But with Ubisoft in charge, I think the next version will be another equally miserable product. It won't be a game that keeps people involved and fanatically playing for 10 more years (THe way Starcraft has a fanatical following over 15 years since its launch.) Instead Ubisoft will keep spamming a new version/upgrade every few months and keep suckering in console players with short attention spans.

I used to hope that Ubisoft would eventually realize its mistakes with H VI. Now I don't think it will ever change its style. H VII will not be fundamentally different from H VI. The Zerg style isn't going away; it's a part of the way Ubisoft does business.

:tired: :disagree: :( :mad: :ill:

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Postby Raven-sb » Jul 22 2013, 3:30

Whilst I like Blizzard, they too have been known to put out some clunkers in their time and disappoint their fans (Diablo 3 anyone?). I've yet to make my mind up about HOMMVI as I've just started playing it. Hope a good turn based game comes along soon to provide you with some enjoyment :-).

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Postby wimfrits » Jul 22 2013, 7:22

Raven-sb wrote:(Diablo 3 anyone?).
:) Well, for me Diablo 3 is exactly what I wished for. Less micromanagement and flexible character development set in an almost bugfree game.

Every sequel is bound to make part of the fans unhappy. I actually think HOMMVI is a huge improvement on its prequel in a lot of ways. Except for the exorbitant amount of bugs. Which seems to me is a consequence of Ubisoft's Zerg-like strategy :disagree:
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?

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Postby Raven-sb » Jul 22 2013, 10:06

@wimfrits

We must be members of the few who like D3. There's a lot of fan negativity about that game. The only other game that comes close to it in fan backlash is funnily enough HOMMVI (I'll never call it MMHVI).

So far I've made it through the HOMMVI prologue and I'm working my way through the first Necro campaign. I've enjoyed what I've played so far, which bodes well for the rest of the game (for me). Having said that, the game has crashed and I've experienced a few bugs, but nothing that robs me of the fun I'm having with the game.

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Postby wimfrits » Jul 22 2013, 10:49

Whoo! I have finally found the other person that likes D3 :D
But seriously, for each complaining person on the internet there are probably a hundred that are silently enjoying the game. Both D3 and HOMMVI are a financial succes. It's just human nature to voice criticism (just as I am now criticizing critcism)
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?

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Postby Tress » Jul 22 2013, 14:12

Actually I faill to see how can thees two game be compared. TBS that is currently languishing genre and homm series in fact being only example of genre(well at least for this sort of game, I wont count squad comabts) vs RTS which have tons of games (like warhammer , Supreme comander etc) with SC being highest budget one of them all, meant 90% for cyber sport. Even if one game is of superior quality, player bases will vastly different, even for simple reason that SC requires obscene ammount of RPM to compete, while TBS dont have this elllement, which in fact builds up for all the style we expect game to plat. I cant play SC with sandwich and cola bottle in my hand(at least so that I could be remotely effective) while I can certainly do that in HOMM.
That was way better than my reaction with the incredibly poor storyline in Heroes VI. I mean, Angels with Mothers? Angels turning into devils and having love affairs with people? Children killing their mother after she turned into a dragon? All kinds of dubious storylines and character developments that set my teeth on edge and made me slap my forehead with disgust at every turn.
Truth be told I havent gotten around to play HOMM VI yet, to get aquinted with plot hovewer
1) SC universe have tons of budget for writing, with tie ins like books, comics, manga and nearly any other imaginable media short of own movie and tv series.
2) Amount of hate towards plot of SC 2 by SC 1 purists far exceed whatever happens on CH boards on it's worst day. Also for my personal opinion even though it is riddled with cliches, (like all powerful foe, all mighty convenient artifacts, some cheap drama etc), to me it was readable and it was decently presented and directed. Criticism aimed towards homm VI is exactly same arguments we can hear on SC boards.
Let's say I use the analogy of an RTS as a sports car and a Turn Based game as a sedate family sedan. I don't like sports cars. I prefer ferrying my family around in a family car. But a good quality sports car, like a Porsche, is far better than a hulking, rusted up, barely driveable and incredibly ugly gas guzzling station wagon.
Actually correct analogy would be Ducati bike and family sedan. Sure bike is cool and expensive, and give nice breeze, but even if my sedan is rusted and barely going it is what I will have to use if I want my family to go, because I cant fit my family and groceries in my bike, same way I cant play RTS without both my hands on table and food tray in my lap.

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Postby Banedon » Jul 23 2013, 13:37

Agreeing with wimfrits here.

If you dislike H6 and / or Ubisoft, why don't you just stop playing it / don't buy Ubisoft games and be done with it? Instead of complaining and criticizing etc ... if you have no time to play many games, you could put the time that you spent composing that post into playing more games.
I'm a hypocrite because I suggested that all life is sacred and should not be wasted without good reason.

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Postby cjlee » Jul 23 2013, 16:54

I want TBS, not RTS, simple as that. It sucks that there isn't a good TBS that suits me in the market now.

Civilization and related TBS games are too complicated and appeal to the 'builder' type of person who will happily spend hours on nothing but building.

Heroes seems to be the only TBS that offers more strategy, tactics, etc. rather than just building, building and more building.

That said, I'm waiting for someone to fill that niche. I suspect, as jeff said, there is a substantial number of people who do want to drive station wagons for their family and will happily buy station wagons that are properly built.

BTW Wimfrits, I loved your line juxtaposing bugs with Zerg. A real consequence of Ubisoft's Zerg strategy is that its products wind up filled with bugs!

Banedon wrote:Agreeing with wimfrits here.

If you dislike H6 and / or Ubisoft, why don't you just stop playing it / don't buy Ubisoft games and be done with it? Instead of complaining and criticizing etc ... if you have no time to play many games, you could put the time that you spent composing that post into playing more games.

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Postby wimfrits » Jul 23 2013, 20:07

cjlee wrote:I loved your line juxtaposing bugs with Zerg.
:-D I wish I did that on purpose!
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?

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Postby Sir_Toejam » Aug 28 2013, 11:48

Banedon wrote:Agreeing with wimfrits here.

If you dislike H6 and / or Ubisoft, why don't you just stop playing it / don't buy Ubisoft games and be done with it? Instead of complaining and criticizing etc ... if you have no time to play many games, you could put the time that you spent composing that post into playing more games.
I have to say how much I dislike this kind of answer.

It's like trying to tell someone not to eat wonder bread if they don't like it, when Wonder bread is 90% of the market.

Warner Bros SUCK as a company, absolutely and unequivocally. You gonna boycott half of the available entertainment because they suck so bad?

hey, I have hated Microsoft for over 20 years now. should I toss my desktop machine and go apple you think?

seriously, think before you say stuff like that.

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Postby cjlee » Oct 15 2013, 18:52

Agree with you (as delayed as my agreement is)

I don't like Microsoft, so I have no right to criticize Microsoft? You think everybody is a programming expert and can switch to Linux anytime? Or that everybody wants to spend 2x as much to buy Macs and be locked into their proprietary world?

Very poor and pathetic attitude. No wonder this game is going downhill. I just tried out King's Bounty, and while it's not exactly what I want (not enough puzzles aka battles the way HOMM has), King's Bounty demonstrates some serious commitment to quality that is clearly lacking in anything Ubisoft makes. I can tell that unlike Nival's Numbskulls who never even played the games they made, King's Bounty guys were making a game they'd like to play.

If everyone had Banedon's attitude and put up cheerfully and complacently with a flawed monopoly that refused to improve, AT&T would be the only telephone provider, there would be no internet service for most people outside universities and we would still be using rotary phones.

The feeling I got from them was really like playing Heroes II! In one or two more iterations, we might very well get back something akin to Heroes III.

If that happens you won't ever hear me complain anymore, because I'll be too busy playing King's Bounty

Sir_Toejam wrote:
Banedon wrote:Agreeing with wimfrits here.

If you dislike H6 and / or Ubisoft, why don't you just stop playing it / don't buy Ubisoft games and be done with it? Instead of complaining and criticizing etc ... if you have no time to play many games, you could put the time that you spent composing that post into playing more games.
I have to say how much I dislike this kind of answer.

It's like trying to tell someone not to eat wonder bread if they don't like it, when Wonder bread is 90% of the market.

Warner Bros SUCK as a company, absolutely and unequivocally. You gonna boycott half of the available entertainment because they suck so bad?

hey, I have hated Microsoft for over 20 years now. should I toss my desktop machine and go apple you think?

seriously, think before you say stuff like that.

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Re: Feel Unimaginably Sad: Heroes VI versus Starcraft 2

Postby Mirez » Oct 16 2013, 9:16

cjlee wrote: Starcraft 2, especially the Zerg race (the current Heart of the Swarm expansion is all about Zerg) is totally not my style. I hate swarming, I hate charging in without thinking, I hate that mindless aggression without sitting back and thinking and calculating the way we all do with Heroes.
This is quite incorrect, zerg is all about precision. Hit the larvae injects on the right time, spread creep efficiently and aim for a nice timing with upgrades. You have to scout what your opponent is doing and adjust accordingly. Sure "swarming" works in campaign, but then again... everything works in campaign.
cjlee wrote: But a good game is a good game. For all my grouses, I loved Starcraft. Every damn thing fit together, ranging from unit counters and sub-storylines to the artwork and the music. I did NOT have a single bug, computer slowdown, or computer hanging during the course of my gameplay, which being RTS and involving so many 3D units moving at the same time, was quite demanding on my computer.
SC2's music is pretty mediocre in my opinion, except for some terran music. And the reason it didn't have bugs is because they had a 6 month beta with thousands of people playing. Aka a much, much larger budget.
SC2 runs pretty **** on macs by the way (they are still trying to fix this) so no it's not perfect.
cjlee wrote: Yet Starcraft always loaded faster than Heroes VI. There was no lengthy pause between loaded games. And the storyline and character development was top notch. I actually felt a sinking feeling when the tale ended with the last Zerg mission. I wasn't going to see what happened between Kerrigan and Jim Raynor (the two main characters).

That was way better than my reaction with the incredibly poor storyline in Heroes VI. I mean, Angels with Mothers? Angels turning into devils and having love affairs with people? Children killing their mother after she turned into a dragon? All kinds of dubious storylines and character developments that set my teeth on edge and made me slap my forehead with disgust at every turn.
Lol SC2's story has the same level as the average porn movie. It takes itself way to seriously at the end of HotS. Though it doesn't make the campaign any less enjoyable.
I find it interesting that you consider hots' story good and H6's story bad. Granted, blizzard does a much better job at storytelling and it keeps it small and simple because it's a game about combat not a novel. But tbh I thought the H6 campaign was quite enjoyable. It's up to personal preference, you can't bash the game and it's developers just because it's not what you wanted.
cjlee wrote: I'm almost a middle aged man already. I have no time to play many games, so I can only choose one or two. And what do you think I will choose?

Let's say I use the analogy of an RTS as a sports car and a Turn Based game as a sedate family sedan. I don't like sports cars. I prefer ferrying my family around in a family car. But a good quality sports car, like a Porsche, is far better than a hulking, rusted up, barely driveable and incredibly ugly gas guzzling station wagon.

To make things worse, Heroes VI has been an incredible commercial success. (At least, it is making money despite its incredibly poor quality.)

Having just played Zerg and grumbled that swarming tactics were not my style, I can't help but compare Ubisoft with the Zerg and Blizzard with the Protoss. (Sorry, I can't use comparisons drawn from Heroes VI, because the different races are too similar and homogenized. Unlike Heroes II and III where the necromancers did at least have Zerg like tactics in harvesting their enemies' essences and raising vast quantities of troops to swarm, H VI undead are just dead versions of non-undead.)

Ubisoft is like Zerg, it doesn't care about quality, it just spams many versions of the same thing and collects money whenever it can. It improvizes and produces ad hoc fixes. It doesn't care if one version dies or doesn't get enough interest. It just spams another version or some DLC every few months.

Blizzard is like Protoss, it focuses on one or just a small number of versions of the same game, provides support throughout, works very hard on quality and making sure everyone in all countries and all language versions get the same solid game.
It's a matter of budget, with the succes of sc and brood war in mind blizzard had a blank cheque to develop the game. An attitude only Blizzard and Rockstar have. The rest of the world has to keep costs in mind and have to deal with deadlines and whatnot.
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Postby Tress » Oct 16 2013, 10:55

If everyone had Banedon's attitude and put up cheerfully and complacently with a flawed monopoly that refused to improve, AT&T would be the only telephone provider, there would be no internet service for most people outside universities and we would still be using rotary phones.
Well we cant compare Microsoft with Ubisoft in term of monopoly. If I clap my foot to ground and refuse to use windows I am limited to Linux systems on PC, and while for work it;s not that bad, I cant play games due to dx and other issues. Realistically there is no market for different commercial OS.
On other hand stating that Ubisoft has some sort of monopoly on TBS game is downright insane, as this is limited to demand, and is niche product in today market. So if we would one nice day get our wish and everyone at ubi dies and stop making homm games, we wouldn't have better company do it in their stead, for simple reason, that there might as well not be publisher insane enough to even consider this genre, while in windows case, there always will be demand for OS(thus monopoly isnt as good thing).
As for homm3 issue. Well it's peak of gameplay refined by 3 games and 2 addons for it. This is reason why homm 4 was extremely different game. Sure 5 went back to 3, but in the end all they added was bit more extensive skill system(mostly good thing), initiative scale(extremely disbalansed in my eyes), and more restrictions to fast expansion to higher tiers in towns due to town lvl. MMH6 tried same thing as homm4, and sure many of inovations will be hit and miss, but it's series evolution. If we want homm 3 then we play it, there is no need to remake it for 5th time.

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Postby markkur » Oct 16 2013, 13:40

@cjlee
Feel Unimaginably Sad
Although, ofc I know this certainly applies to your reasons for the post, I think this is more about something I've felt the last decade. "We older gamers are fighting a losing war", not just about one battle concerning one game but I think it's going to be all games. (if, it's not already)

<imo>we are simply being outvoted by demographics. As much as I hate it, it appears that what I like is far from the norm these days and when younger folks will plop down the bucks for a "quick-fix?" we will not be taken too seriously. Until (if-ever) gaming companies are driven to make quality games for the niche markets, we are going to see the H6-like fiasco.

From my pov, this started about 5-10 years ago and seems to be picking up steam. My brother and I have both been big fans of the TW franchise since the beginning (like me with HoMM)and now, big changes are beginning there too. As silly as this will sound; I always thought (more of a wish)that CA would stay true to (horns please)THE GRAND VISION <L> which turns out means..."my idea of good quality" :D ...well, they're not. They are after the cash, like all the companies doing business. Now those great battles are mob-scenes in the middle of battlefields and my brother and I are like...wth? <L>

I'm down to one game and holding out for the work of one man. Things are that bad for me;. and that Sad.

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Postby Dalai » Oct 16 2013, 19:50

markkur wrote: <imo>we are simply being outvoted by demographics. As much as I hate it, it appears that what I like is far from the norm these days and when younger folks will plop down the bucks for a "quick-fix?" we will not be taken too seriously. Until (if-ever) gaming companies are driven to make quality games for the niche markets, we are going to see the H6-like fiasco.
All true. But don't give up hope. Europa Universalis gets better with every new installation. There are both demand for and supply of quality games. The better Paradox feels the louder this pov gets.

Ubisoft can't work anywhere but mass-mass market. They are trying to reshape Heroes for it, but that is obviously wrong idea. They prefer to learn it hard way. It's sad, but they are in their right.
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Postby cjlee » Oct 20 2013, 19:01

Ubisoft doesn't do a good job with the mass market.

They should take a page from EAGames. At least EA Games makes games that enough people want to play and care about, so that when there are playability issues, all America notices. Ubisoft couldn't have been voted worst company in America even if they tried, because not enough people care about their products.

SimCity is 100x more complex than Heroes. and they probably didn't have any more bugs or software problems than Heroes.

If you consider how many buildings you build in SimCity vs how many you build in Heroes VI, it's ridiculous that when I played HeroesVI, my computer hung several times when I opened a town screen to build something.

Furthermore...

Mirez's response illustrates the big problem with our dear moderators and admins on this website. Most of the time they're so desperately defending ubisoft, it's pathetic.

The problem with Heroes VI is not the music! Starcraft doesn't sell because of the music! The problem is the overall package!

Having seen numerous Blizzard products and heard plenty of Romero's music, I would happily and readily admit that B's quality of art and music has been generally behind that of the Heroes franchise.

It doesn't change the fact that Blizzard made a working game with a high degree of playability, replayability, enjoyment factor, etc.

So what if Ubisoft got Paul Romero on board and that guy is a great composer, better than whoever did the Starcraft2 music? At least I don't have to hear a symphony of chipmunks in accompaniment to that music during battles.

I got and played Heroes VI in the fourth quarter of 2011. I didn't keep up with the updates, but if I remember right, it was a very, very long time before Ubisoft got rid of the chipmunk accompanists.

And the town screens? How long was it before they addressed that?

Over a year after the game was released, I was still hearing of problems with basic playability/ login/ startup/ savegame/ issues.

The reality is that plenty of individual factors about HeroesVI are good. The management, unfortunately, was not good. Without sound management exhibiting the right leadership, the pieces don't come together.
Dalai wrote:
markkur wrote: <imo>we are simply being outvoted by demographics. As much as I hate it, it appears that what I like is far from the norm these days and when younger folks will plop down the bucks for a "quick-fix?" we will not be taken too seriously. Until (if-ever) gaming companies are driven to make quality games for the niche markets, we are going to see the H6-like fiasco.
All true. But don't give up hope. Europa Universalis gets better with every new installation. There are both demand for and supply of quality games. The better Paradox feels the louder this pov gets.

Ubisoft can't work anywhere but mass-mass market. They are trying to reshape Heroes for it, but that is obviously wrong idea. They prefer to learn it hard way. It's sad, but they are in their right.

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Postby Mirez » Nov 15 2013, 9:21

cjlee wrote: Mirez's response illustrates the big problem with our dear moderators and admins on this website. Most of the time they're so desperately defending ubisoft, it's pathetic.

The problem with Heroes VI is not the music! Starcraft doesn't sell because of the music! The problem is the overall package!
Good job at addressing the 1% of my post you can argue with. Be it with a matter of taste instead of objectivity. Either way you're making a fool of yourself if you think I feel obligated to defend heroes 6.
cjlee wrote: And the town screens? How long was it before they addressed that?

Over a year after the game was released, I was still hearing of problems with basic playability/ login/ startup/ savegame/ issues.

The reality is that plenty of individual factors about HeroesVI are good. The management, unfortunately, was not good. Without sound management exhibiting the right leadership, the pieces don't come together.
No good word for the massive amount of bugs and the fact the game was unplayable after release. Even the beta was more playable. But the lack of town screens is a choice not laziness. Town screens add little to gameplay and take quite a lot of time and energy to make. They didn't HAVE to add town screens. If anything you should be glad they bothered to listen to the fans. Instead you hate on them for not listening to your demands fast enough.
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Postby MattII » Nov 16 2013, 9:23

Mirez wrote:No good word for the massive amount of bugs and the fact the game was unplayable after release. Even the beta was more playable. But the lack of town screens is a choice not laziness. Town screens add little to gameplay and take quite a lot of time and energy to make. They didn't HAVE to add town screens. If anything you should be glad they bothered to listen to the fans. Instead you hate on them for not listening to your demands fast enough.
Thing is though, yes, the town screens take a lot of work, but it's work that can be done during a closed beta, when all the other graphics should have been completed and the program should have been running properly.

As for adding nothing to the gameplay, you're right that is doesn't, but they add rather a lot to the game experience, and they give it a finished look, a look of a game into which the developers have put their heart and soul, not just some corporate money-grab. Hells, unless you do something really terrible with the gameplay, there's likely to be a good portion of the fans that will support it, but town screens are something everyone can agree on.

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Postby cjlee » Nov 24 2013, 6:49

Your attitude (and Ubisoft's) goes right to the core of what's wrong.

It's probably the same attitude that explains why forum traffic has dropped, and why I don't feel so respectful towards moderators anymore.

If you can see what's wrong, credit to you. If you can't, no problem, H7 will be launched, it will make less money and sell fewer copies, and traffic here will drop so you will have less moderating to do. Ubisoft and this forum's admins will be both happy, presumably, since they got to do whatever they felt like without needing to consider what the fans wanted.

In any case, I had stopped playing H6 long before they added the town screens, and wasn't motivated enough by the town screens to come back. I am not hating on them for not listening to my demands, since I didn't make the town screens demand in the first place. I am hating on them for producing an unfinished game and having a poor attitude about it.

If you buy a house, you expect the front gate to be painted. Even if it adds nothing to your experience of living inside the house, and doesn't make your house more structurally sound or leak proof or termite proof. And if the real estate developer takes over a year to paint your front gate for you and only after lots of demands that they paint the front gate, it's not hating on anyone. It's getting something that while I agree you are not legally entitled to, is customarily expected as part of the package failing which one gets a very bad impression of the developer.

The whole debate on town screens is really a debate about Ubisoft's attitude and the overall finish given to this product. It shows a crap attitude. If there were very, very few bugs and gameplay was great and everyone was happy, not having town screens would be such a minor issue that most complainers would only raise it in passing.

It seems most defenders of HVI and Ubisoft love rehashing the same 'they didn't need to listen to you', 'it's their property and they can do as they please' defense. Well, you guys are right. You guys have also succeeded in driving away traffic, so you can choose between being Legally Right, and keeping a fan community around you, and it is obvious what you have chosen.

It seems I am the only guy actively talking on this forum now, which I find bizarre not to say the least since I haven't played H6 for nearly 2 years now. Where is the community? There isn't one anymore, is there?

If my comments drew a barrage of criticisms from other people, at least I would be reassured that yes, I'm wrong, many people still care about h6. But the way things are going, I think nobody cares enough about h6 to want to speak against me, and if I hadn't criticized the moderators (deliberately, too!) you wouldn't care enough to reply, and the net result would be that an entire month would pass without anyone posting anything.

I'm amazed. A game that once made enthusiasts nuts enough to create Wake of Gods, Equlibris and Quantomas mods - look at it now!

[/quote]
If anything you should be glad they bothered to listen to the fans. Instead you hate on them for not listening to your demands fast enough.[/quote]

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Pol
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Postby Pol » Nov 24 2013, 8:54

I think nobody cares enough about h6 to want to speak against me, and if I hadn't criticized the moderators (deliberately, too!) you wouldn't care enough to reply, and the net result would be that an entire month would pass without anyone posting anything.
It seems most defenders of HVI and Ubisoft love rehashing the same 'they didn't need to listen to you', 'it's their property and they can do as they please' defense. Well, you guys are right. You guys have also succeeded in driving away traffic, so you can choose between being Legally Right, and keeping a fan community around you, and it is obvious what you have chosen.
Let me warn you clee, you're stepping out of the safe valley of sanity. Perhaps too close to the North Banhatam.

And you couldn't be more wrong about the community. And our mods and staff. Everybody here wished the game to be success and to follow all the good mechanics, playability and nice dose of fun from previous serious. With frefresh of new air.

As it turned out it didn't happened.

I don't feel the need to blabling about it eternally. Especially not being able to develop such game with my own powers.

But provoking others is the childish game. Check what you did and say, can you be proud of it?

The game isn't good and what? Play something else..


I also hope you shake that feeling, this forum is not about you.

Thanks for understanding
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