Help me fill up the last few point on my inferno hero?

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havoc_85
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Help me fill up the last few point on my inferno hero?

Unread postby havoc_85 » 16 May 2013, 16:06

I am a level 22 Tear Might Inferno Kiril at the moment.
http://www.celestialheavens.com/homm6/s ... 7G3D4I2D8A

What should I put my last few points into?
I don't know if I should give you guys more information - but if I do, just ask.



By the way, I am playing on normal difficulty with mostly (98%) perfect victories but with poor understanding on city development.
How hard will "Hard" mode be for me?

Thanks for the help :)

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Unread postby Ell1e » 16 May 2013, 19:45

I like Inner Fire on Might heroes, but not sure if you should bother at this level. Same goes for Reinforcements II, I would have gotten it a lot earlier and if you've gotten this far without it, you probably don't need it. Maybe some Leadership?

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Unread postby wimfrits » 16 May 2013, 21:52

I'd miss Heroic strike, rampage, taunt, rush and pressed attack. Mentoring was down to 50% last time I looked (and therefore useless). Has that been changed in the latest patch again?
The rest seems fine to me.
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?

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Unread postby havoc_85 » 17 May 2013, 02:10

Hmm, I consider myself to be an OK player, but the skills you suggested are hinting that fights will last more than just a few rounds...

Mentoring helped me level 3 of heroes from 14 to the much needed 15 (and then some more).
I know its a waste but I had no Idea it was impossible to re-spec you hero :(


I'm just playing the campaign and not VS other people... Unless I am completely oblivious on how battles are supposed to be fought ;|
Got any recommended battles or duals I can see online?

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Unread postby wimfrits » 17 May 2013, 06:48

havoc_85 wrote:Hmm, I consider myself to be an OK player, but the skills you suggested are hinting that fights will last more than just a few rounds...
I thought you wanted to try on hard? :-D
Then 'control' abilities become more important. E.g. a Rush! at the right time will enable you to defeat the hero that would have fled if his turn came up.
Note btw that Heroic Charge does not work on demented and cerberi (bug?). Works great with lacerators though.

You can respecialize your hero only after reaching a new reputation level
I'm just playing the campaign and not VS other people... Unless I am completely oblivious on how battles are supposed to be fought ;|
Got any recommended battles or duals I can see online?
If you're getting 98% perfect victories you're doing a good job. Campaign and vs battles are not really comparable. The AI will behave different than a human player.
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?

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Unread postby hellegennes » 17 May 2013, 14:05

Apart from pressed attack, I find the rest of these skills to be pretty useless. They don't provide the necessary edge, they're more cosmetic than useful.

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Unread postby havoc_85 » 17 May 2013, 14:31

Had no idea the AI would flee on hard. I usually get them all...
Sounds good. I will listen.

hellegennes wrote:Apart from pressed attack, I find the rest of these skills to be pretty useless. They don't provide the necessary edge, they're more cosmetic than useful.
Why would you say that?
Pressed attack sounds like a Heaven ability that you give your shooters (moral + cleave = 3 pressed attacks in a row).
Is it worth its while with all factions?

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Unread postby wimfrits » 17 May 2013, 15:15

@havoc_85:
Pressed attack is good with any faction. Lasts for 3 attacks with increased hero damage. Some factions also have a special ability tied to their hero attack.

@hellegennes:
I find Might is hard pressed to control combat.
Taunt is the only hero-disabling ability. Heroic charge gives a 1-3 time +250% damage boost. Rush! (and Warlord's command) are the strongest combat order modifiers.
Together with Cleave these are the only real wildcards in combat a might hero has.
But each his own style of course. What gives you the necessary edge?
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?

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Unread postby havoc_85 » 17 May 2013, 19:38

As a Might hero, I try to buy magic scrolls. Earth elemental, Blindness and I'm sure there are more crowd control scrolls out there.

I only played Might heroes with Inferno (main hero) so I just split my Lillim to 2 or 3 stacks and just have them kiss everyone to sleep.
Gating helps kissing even more helpless enemies :proud:

By the way, I never did understand what the Juggernaut / Ravagers are for.
All they seem to do is cost a lot of money, kill your units and get stuck in the way of my dogs.
How do you guys use them, if any?
I can think of a few ways they would be of some use, but that just seems too complicated and will prolong battles unnecessarily (?).

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Unread postby hellegennes » 17 May 2013, 20:56

wimfrits wrote:@havoc_85:
Pressed attack is good with any faction. Lasts for 3 attacks with increased hero damage. Some factions also have a special ability tied to their hero attack.

@hellegennes:
I find Might is hard pressed to control combat.
Taunt is the only hero-disabling ability. Heroic charge gives a 1-3 time +250% damage boost. Rush! (and Warlord's command) are the strongest combat order modifiers.
Together with Cleave these are the only real wildcards in combat a might hero has.
But each his own style of course. What gives you the necessary edge?
Well, the most difficult might faction is certainly Inferno, because they have no healing. Perhaps Dungeon is the second hardest. Nevertheless, the tactic that most works is Counterstrike I-III, Toughness I-III, Archery I-III (depending on whether you have the Emerald bow or not), Cleave... perhaps Giant Slayer... Ambush is good if you have low initiative and Reinforcements is a must (depending on how big the map is, Reinforcements III may be worth it; It works better with the AI though).

Enlightment, Logistics and Snatch help you out a lot, no matter what race and what type of hero. These help you with building your army and your hero faster. Now, I'd rather first spent points on Assailant and Defender and Destiny and Morale skills (depending on whether you have Heaven or Inferno, otherwise not). All these are passive skills, meaning they are permanent bonuses. Having permanent bonuses, even small ones, help you much more in combat than having skills which only apply for one creature or are a one-time advantage.

If there are any points left, then and only then I'd use them for warcries. But warcries are generally weak. If you have Heal and Lightning available, they are much more usefull. That's because no matter how big the opposing armies are, the game does not last for that many turns. I'd prefer to first cast Reinforcement, than maybe a lightning spell and healing. Unless you have really big armies, where these spells become obselete for a Might hero, you won't use any warcries often. For example, with Toughness up to level III, you have 15% more hit points, which is a much more helpful thing to have than a one-time Heroic Charge. Not to mention that it works better at the start of combat; after that it's much more difficult to make good use of it.

Of course, all this is irrelevant because each player has his own style. I am not trying to convince you that my choices are wiser; they may be against one player but not against another one. It may all be crap. I've just tried to give reason to my thoughts about why warcries are not useful. That's my personal opinion and may be completely wrong!

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Unread postby havoc_85 » 17 May 2013, 23:34

I understand what you are saying. Its the same for Magic heroes up to some degree as well but how good is assailant 1-3 or defender 1-3?
Those are a lot of points to spend, how can I be sure that I am making the right choices?

Hmm, well I guess I should play on Hard first and only than speak my mind on the matter.
Thank you all for your opinions :)

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Unread postby hellegennes » 18 May 2013, 00:40

Mind you, the skill app to which you linked is not updated and misreports the actual bonuses. For example Assailant and Defender actually give higher bonuses. Now, these skills are useful if you have more might units. Otherwise skip them.

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Unread postby havoc_85 » 18 May 2013, 04:34

Well, actually, the game is easy enough as it is right now... I will play on "Hard" after I finish the Inferno campaign.

Still, the Stronghold campaign, the two final Missions, Pirates of the Savage Seas, Danse Macabre and Shades of Purple should give me enough to do for the near future...

I just hope they won't disappoint.
Although, before I started the game in the chronological order, couldn't wait and I jumped straight to the Sandro campaign. That Last boss wait insane. Took me good a few tries to kill him B-)

Did you guys know that Danse Macabre means (in free translation) the dance of / with death (that all the living share)?
Have a nice morning :-D

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Unread postby wimfrits » 18 May 2013, 08:26

@hellegennes:
And here I thought I emphasized a lot on passive skills.. :D
I posted my general hero build here earlier. Only for campaign purposes though.

As the hero can only act so many times in combat I agree it's important to have a good balance between active/passive skills. Using a DD spell as a main skill does strike me as a bit odd for a might hero. I thought pressed attack does more damage without the mana cost.
hellegennes wrote:I'd prefer to first cast Reinforcement, than maybe a lightning spell and healing
In the Inferno campaign, I preferred to cast Heroic Charge (Cleave, Counterstrike III) and win ;)
havoc_85 wrote:Did you guys know that Danse Macabre means (in free translation) the dance of / with death (that all the living share)?
Yes! It's also a symphony that is used in the Haunted Castle in one of Holland's amusement parks
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?

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Unread postby hellegennes » 18 May 2013, 09:53

It's a piece by French composer Saint-Saëns (not a symphony, though). It has been used numerous times in both film and TV. There's a very nice 2000 Mickey Mouse cartoon, which you can watch here.

Regarding Might heroes, when I don't cast spells I prefer to just hit. In high level Might heroes the damage is quite significant and it often causes all sorts of heroic strike effects.

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Unread postby wimfrits » 18 May 2013, 14:10

Ah, you're right. It's a symphonic poem though :D

The might attack gets pretty strong indeed. But using the plain attack too often means you can increase hero effectiveness by picking another active skill.
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?

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Unread postby havoc_85 » 18 May 2013, 16:16

@wimfrits

Which unit are you charging with? dogs / Lacerators?
What stack sizes are we talking about here (because it sounds like you 1 shot stacks)?

@hellegennes

Thanks for the video. Live and learn :)

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Unread postby wimfrits » 18 May 2013, 17:37

I start out with cerberi and a few succubi (for pressed attack). Then Lacerators, and later pit lords. I find Ravagers (you asked earlier) clumsy to use. Breeders do too little damage. Cerberi remain useful for backup damage.

Charging with lacerators and pit lords (doesn't work on cerberi). Only when stack size is high enough ;)
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?

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Unread postby havoc_85 » 19 May 2013, 04:55

Well, we play very differently :)

I never seem to have enough money for champions.
Tactics II + dogs run in + cleave + Retaliation III and the fight is over.
I send to sleep with my Lillim any stacks that are left alive.

I try to get the Yumi bow for the breeders. They do A LOT more damage this way. I don't buy the breeders until I get my hands on that bow.

Finished the Inferno campaign. What a disappointment....
It (the campaign) started so so well but ended so very boring :beheading:

From a first mission where you turn into a 5x5 full on demon to a 4th mission where nothing happens.

Well, at least the inferno campaign had the best maps. Lets see how Stronghold holds :P

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Unread postby Sir_Toejam » 28 Aug 2013, 12:04

Ok, here's a tip on ravagers:

advanced tactics, reinforcement, and use the sword of the pirate king (from crag hack's dlc campaign)

boarding makes these guys the bomb for an opening salvo, seriously.

unlike panther warriors, ravagers damage things ON a line, not at the end of their run; they actually run through stacks, NOT around them. that's the only thing you need to remember. Imagine running PAST someone with your claws held out for a sideswipe...

*tag! you're it!* says the juggernaut, as he rips your head off.

edit: as a perfect example of why juggies/ravagers are better than panther warriors, and actually are the best elite melee unit in the entire game, I just wiped out 4 stacks of kappa on a single charge because you can run THROUGH them. the charge took out 4 stacks, and the cleave took out the fifth, meaning the juggies all by themselves took out the entire enemy army in the first turn, all 5 stacks. theoretically, since they can move 6 spaces, and boarding gives you +2, you *could* take out 8 stacks at once if they were all lined up in front of you.

this is why you need boarding, for the +2 move points to start. that, plus the huge boost to moral means these guys will likely clear most of the middle after they take out two stacks on their charge, another on the cleave, and another on the first-strike counterattack.

I think the confusion comes from maybe that while they can run *through* single-space stacks, they have to move *by* the extra large guys. they can still swipe at multiple large targets, but they have to do it by moving along them instead of through them. Can move through kappa, for example, but not through kirin.

what's more, and again, you need to think "inferno" here... they are simply THE best unit to gate with, as they have auto-taunt. to distract and cluster units around them. makes them a great fireball magnet, or just to keep everything away from your other units.

and last, but not least for me anyway, is the fact they look AWESOME when they get a lucky strike. *pound*pound*pound* :)

if you don't have pirate king, then simply *wait*, then run past the units that advance. you won't get the counter attack kill, but you still do good damage with no retaliation.

If you have the Blade of Binding, summon your juggies to the side of the last unit in the enemy line towards the top or bottom, then just run them through the entire enemy line; sweeping a single space towards your line on the charge. 40 juggies can do serious damage to anyone's line. I tend to summon them so that they end up their charge next to any ranged units, which if they survive, will probably be dead on the first-strike counter attack, or the cleave if your juggies destroyed any stacks along the way.

frankly, with an inferno might hero, i can't imagine NOT relying on these guys!


....

MOTHER breeders actually do great damage, but not with a might based hero. they are your primary unit of death for any magic base hero though.

they end up doing WAAAAAAAY more damage than your lillums, even without a bow to give them full range!

this is just like how people think equivalent growths of cerberi somehow do more damage than ravagers. simply put... no. elites do more damage than core for the equivalent weeks growth, period. that's the way the game is designed FFS. people just think cerberi do more damage because you typically start off with a weeks (or more, since you usually even start with some) growth of them ahead of getting your elite units.

likewise, lillums do not do more damage than breeders. seriously, take exactly one week of standard growth of each, and test it yourself.

you want to try something REALLY different with inferno... go old school armaggedon. you really can burn your way to the top.

I just hit level 30 in the final inferno campaign map (the last campaign I had yet to finish), magic power 98 and my primary does nearly 5K with armaggedon, 7.5k with a fireball, and over 8k with a firebolt. Even the inferno spell is fun; works great on clustered stacks behind walls... just keeps jumping from one to the other and back again, until they all burn up...

even endgame, those numbers actually make a difference, though I think magic damage should still scale higher at higher level. Makes me wish magic damage was much more diverse than it currently is. basically you have only a handful of spells you ever use for damage in this game.

for most of maps 3 & 4, I just used breeders and lillum, with demented as protectors, and pretty much burned everything using one fire spell or another, since the damage scales down with increase area coverage. character named Ignus... :)

the only time I need to add to that army is for boss fights. Very very different to playing it with a might hero. But, just wanted to say, it is very doable.


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