Ashan Lore Question: Griffin Dynasty, the last generations

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Ashan Lore Question: Griffin Dynasty, the last generations

Postby Dave_Jame » Sep 15 2012, 10:26

Hi there.

After the last void chronicles, I just wanted to get a thing or two straight. Please correct any errors.

The last King of the Griffin Dynasty was Nikolaj, killed during the 6th eclipse by the Demon lord Agrael. The dynasty of the Griffin family ended with his wife Isabela of the Grayhound who at the end of H5-HoF gave the rule over the empire to Freyda, ironicly maybe the last living relative of her past husband (Since she was Nikolaj's cosin).

Nikolaj's father was Alexei Griffin, who married Fiona Unicorn, the sister of Godric. Alexei died during the 5th eclipse when he enterd the portal to Sheog and none of his allias followed him.

Alexei's Father was seen, but not named, in Clash of Heroes. There he was titled only "the Emperor". But in Heroes V Markal speaks that his master Sandro has been burned by the fanatics of King Oleg. And in the last part of the Void Chronicles we discover that the person who killed Sandro was Cyrus, the father Zehir.
At the time of Clash of Heroes, Cyrus was only an apperantic of Al-Zafir and Markal a young man.

From these fact I personaly would say, that Sandro's Death must have happend some times between Clash of Heroes and Heroes V. And the only unnamed Ruler of the empire in this period is Alexei's Father, the Emperor from Clash of Heroes. So this would mean, that the emperor's name is Oleg.

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Re: Ashan Lore Question: Griffin Dynasty, the last generatio

Postby Avonu » Sep 15 2012, 15:57

Dave_Jame wrote:The last King of the Griffin Dynasty was Nikolaj, killed during the 6th eclipse by the Demon lord Agrael. The dynasty of the Griffin family ended with his wife Isabela of the Grayhound who at the end of H5-HoF gave the rule over the empire to Freyda, ironicly maybe the last living relative of her past husband (Since she was Nikolaj's cosin).

Not quite. Nicolai was not last of the Griffins and Isabel had really no rights to throne (as she wasn't even married to him).
There was another heir to the throne - Nicloai cousin, young Andreai (Duncan wasn't related to Griffins at all IIRC) and he was hidden by Duncun in Grimheim Kingdom (and this event cased civil war between Dwarves). Unfortuantely he was killed in ToE by Alaric's Church and his blood was used by Biara to summon Demons in Talonguard (after her disguise was foiled).

Dave_Jame wrote:Alexei's Father was seen, but not named, in Clash of Heroes. There he was titled only "the Emperor". But in Heroes V Markal speaks that his master Sandro has been burned by the fanatics of King Oleg. And in the last part of the Void Chronicles we discover that the person who killed Sandro was Cyrus, the father Zehir.

Markal said in HV already that Zehir killed his master - Sandro. King Oleg was probably ruler of Holy Empire during that times or not - see below.
Markal needs to find Cyrus in the magical reality of the Ring of the Unrepentant, defeat him, and capture this last element of the Vampire's Garment. He has not forgotten that it was Cyrus's troops who occupied Heresh and killed his master, Sandro.


Dave_Jame wrote:At the time of Clash of Heroes, Cyrus was only an apperantic of Al-Zafir and Markal a young man.

This not forbid event that Zehir already killed Sandro. He was apprentice of Azh Rafir but we don't know from how long.

Dave_Jame wrote:From these fact I personaly would say, that Sandro's Death must have happend some times between Clash of Heroes and Heroes V. And the only unnamed Ruler of the empire in this period is Alexei's Father, the Emperor from Clash of Heroes. So this would mean, that the emperor's name is Oleg.

Not really, Sandro could be dead from long time, or could be killed after CoH.
And IIRC Lorekeep was destroyed by King Oleg but:

Lorekeep was a mighty center of magic, dedicated to the most elusive of Asha's teachings. Had mad king Oleg's fanatics not burned it to the ground, my mentor Sandro would not have died the final death.

There is no word about Sandro death in this city during purge. It only suggests that if Lorekeep wasn't destroyed, lore from there would prevent Sandro final death. But this arcane wisdom was lost, when Oleg's fanatics leveled city.

BTW - Could you asking questions about Ashan in HV-HVI sections?

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Postby Dave_Jame » Sep 15 2012, 18:37

BTW - Could you asking questions about Ashan in HV-HVI sections?

Yes I can and will. Can you move the topic or should I ask Pol or somebody elese.

Not quite. Nicolai was not last of the Griffins and Isabel had really no rights to throne (as she wasn't even married to him).
There was another heir to the throne - Nicloai cousin, young Andreai (Duncan wasn't related to Griffins at all IIRC) and he was hidden by Duncun in Grimheim Kingdom (and this event cased civil war between Dwarves). Unfortuantely he was killed in ToE by Alaric's Church and his blood was used by Biara to summon Demons in Talonguard (after her disguise was foiled).

I know this. But Andreai was just an heir and only a child. So he never actually ruled. But Isabela had control over some parts of the Empire in the civil war. And Nicloai actually gave her the right to rule with his deathwish.
Btw. Duncan was the Duke of Stag if I recal correctly.

Markal said in HV already that Zehir killed his master - Sandro. King Oleg was probably ruler of Holy Empire during that times or not - see below

and
This not forbid event that Zehir already killed Sandro. He was apprentice of Azh Rafir but we don't know from how long.


You changed Cyrus for Zehir here. There is no information how long he was an apprentice, but killing a century old lich and a legendary necromancer is not a job for young appretices. Its just a logical conclusion. What is not a logical conclusion is, that The unnamed emepror was much older then Cyrus in CoH so even if he killed Sandro as Azh Rafir's apprentice, it is unlikely that at the time a different Emperor has ruled. So Sandro had to die sometimes at this period, during the rule of eather Alexei, Nikolaj or the nameless emperor.

There is no word about Sandro death in this city during purge. It only suggests that if Lorekeep wasn't destroyed, lore from there would prevent Sandro final death. But this arcane wisdom was lost, when Oleg's fanatics leveled city.

This is actually what I wanted to know. A different interpretation that says that the destruction of Lorekeep did not have to do anything with Sandro's death. It could have happened long time befor it. So the name nameless emperor from CoH could be Oleg, or not, and King Oleg could be a character from a much older history.

So it would be unwise to directly connect these two characters.

Thank you.

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Postby Avonu » Sep 15 2012, 18:58

Dave_Jame wrote:Btw. Duncan was the Duke of Stag if I recal correctly.

Yes, he was.

Dave_Jame wrote:You changed Cyrus for Zehir here. There is no information how long he was an apprentice, but killing a century old lich and a legendary necromancer is not a job for young appretices. Its just a logical conclusion.

1. Yes, indeed - should be Cyrus of course.
2. Not a job for young hero? David vs. Goliath anyone?
There are plenty of stories about how powerful evil overlord (or whoever) was defeated by young, inexperienced farmboy.
But for now we don't know full story - we know only its conclusion but not how it has happened.

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Postby Dave_Jame » Sep 15 2012, 19:09

Avonu wrote:2. Not a job for young hero? David vs. Goliath anyone?
There are plenty of stories about how powerful evil overlord (or whoever) was defeated by young, inexperienced farmboy.
But for now we don't know full story - we know only its conclusion but not how it has happened.


Yes you're right. In fact the entire CoH is about young children defeating much more experienced enemies. Just take Fiona and Ludmilla, who more then 400 years old at that time.
But that is why I wrote "Logical conclusion" and not "Fact":-)

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Postby Marzhin » Sep 18 2012, 21:59

"King" Oleg IS the Emperor seen in Clash of Heroes (so it's actually Emperor Oleg).
And Cyrus indeed killed Sandro, but he wasn't alone. That's a story for another time...

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Postby Dave_Jame » Sep 19 2012, 18:59

Marzhin wrote:"King" Oleg IS the Emperor seen in Clash of Heroes (so it's actually Emperor Oleg).
And Cyrus indeed killed Sandro, but he wasn't alone. That's a story for another time...


Thanks Marzhin. Sometimes you need a bit more then just uncertain game texts:-)

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Postby Avonu » Sep 20 2012, 6:17

Nicolai is also king and Isabel is queenie (while she should have title "empress") but well, this is not first wrong thing in HV.

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Postby brown » Nov 3 2012, 5:40

I have had an issue ever since i have had this game where the tear of asha puzzle map simply does not work. I have tried over the years to find a solution but I was never able to.
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