Faction analysis: Stronghold

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RollingWave
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Faction analysis: Stronghold

Postby RollingWave » Nov 8 2011, 8:08

Quick overview.

Faction ability : rage, adds initiative (lvl 1) might (lvl 2) extra retaliation (lvl3) and no retaliation (lvl 4, currently broken) .

An ability that fits very well with their theme, even at lvl 1 the ability to move before other people is a very good one, and off sets a lot of their potential weakness.

The gauge goes up when you attack and espiecally when your heroes attack

Creatures

Core:

Maulers / Crushers : your standard grunts, they're fairly beefy and hits pretty hard for their cost, their shielded like sentinals so they're not too much as risk from range attacks (not like enemies like to target them with range that much anyway). Crushers wack twice effectively doubling their damage. they also hit harder after being hit.


Goblins: your basic range unit is pretty crappy, very low stats and an tricky ability, their traps basically means any unit that walk through it will stop in it's track and take damage, that is fine but later on the damage on the trap becomes very low. Though their huge growth rate makes up for a lot o the stats weakness. upgraded version have a special ability that I'm not sure what it does yet, it says extra damage to imobile units and I have notice some variance of this efect, it seems to be that if that unit hasn't moved from his spot since last turn it'll take extra damage.

Harpies: basically the same as other previous versions, they have strike and return and upgraded version has no retaliation, they have pretty high damage and with higher level hereos and rage really hits a ton.


General thoughts: (upgraded) Harpies are great, Maulers are average and th Goblins are meh... but early on the traps are useful enough against walker neutruals. I think it really should be that the stacks hit by trap loses a ton of movement for their NEXT turn as well... that would make it much more useful. Though with the large growth and higher level heroes and things like archery skills one should not totally underestimate the Goblin's damage potential either.

Elite

Centar: A pretty strong hitting range unit with full range and the special ability to hit the first unit that enter's it's first range, it will also move away from melee attacker (if it can) and retaliate with his range attack and the upgraded version can hit then move or move and hit, which effectively means unless you can completely box it in it's very hard to prevent his range attack.

Jaguar warrior: a big melee unit who can every two turn make a special attack that can't be retaliate, the upgrade version's hit all enemy units in the area, they also can't be hit with mental spells once they moved. the unupgraded version is okkkk but the upgraded one is great.

DreamWalker / DreamWeaver : the only caster unit of the Stronghold... it's ability is to cast a spell that would either haste allies or damage enemies, the upgraded version cast it on everyone (either all allies or all enemies). suffice to say it's a very strong move, it's basically a free mass agony spell that never ends. or a mini mass haste spell. it also reduce their movement slightly. For a caster, this unit is really buffy, so to make matter worse you'd have a hard time to take them out.

General thoughts:
Stronghold's elite creatures are most probably the best lineup in any faction, every unit is well above average in ability and stats. though unupgraded Jaguar warriosr are only decent.


Champion

Cyclops: it's primary attribute is that it only takes damage at the start of each turn, so even if he takes a gazillion damage he would not die if you finish the fight before their next move. they also have a special move prevents retaliation and knocks back small units (it says only small units can't retaliation, but in reality big units can't either). the upgraded version becomes much stronger, as it has a full range attack, that does burn damage for an additional two turn, and his special attack now hits several units.

General thoughts : the unupgraded version is ehhhh... the damage isn't spetacular, and the building is really expensive and the best attribute is basically to tank retaliation because if you finish the battle fast the damage won't happen.
The river of time wash away all heroes

yourworstnightmare
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Postby yourworstnightmare » Nov 11 2011, 14:33

Right now Stronghold is my favorite. I love the Centaurs, and it just seems Stronghold is the faction you can have most fun with.

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cjlee
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unbalanced

Postby cjlee » Nov 13 2011, 14:21

Stronghold Might is too powerful with magic; Stronghold Magic is too weak with magic.

There is only one stronghold unit that uses magic damage, so your Shamans (Magic heroes) are at a disadvantage. They can't cast prime magic, so they're deprived of good spells like Time Stasis (3 free turns to whack an enemy unit) or Meditation (free mana recharge).

But your stronghold Might heroes all have access to Mass Heal, Mass Life Drain, Mass regeneration. And they WILL spam these spells nonstop.
Mass Life drain now works on ranged units (and these orcs have 3 ranged attackers; one double-attack attacker; one no-retaliation harpy and one hits-everyone panther warrior), so ALL stronghold might heroes are very, very scary.

Add in super high initiative (orc rage) and I think this stronghold faction is by far the most powerful barbarian faction in the Heroes Franchise.

If you charge panther warrior into midst of enemies, you can take out a bunch. You can also easily kill everybody else if you have the 'retaliate against all enemy attacks before they attack' perk after level 15. There is absolutely no counter against this.

Their sole weakness (applicable to all might heroes) is lack of mana. It's not a big deal given the many wonderful abilities that might heroes have, so I'm leaning towards this as the strongest faction.

@rollingwave

Goblins are incredibly powerful. In early game, just buy a few and use them to set traps nonstop. It allows your hero attacks to dispatch the enemy without losses. These are not the weak, wimpy goblins of Heroes V. They can set traps every 2 turns and these traps never fail. (Unless enemy has high morale or flies).

In late game, especially with Bow of the Centaur (or whatever artifact that negates ranged damage) Goblins hit very hard.

I think Centaur is ridiculously overpowered due to its maneuver abilities. Centaurs were bad enough in HV, but at least back then they were level 2 and the only orc ranged attackers.

Cyclops are good tanks indeed, but usually not needed to win = stronghold is already so strong.

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Elvin
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Re: unbalanced

Postby Elvin » Nov 13 2011, 14:36

cjlee wrote:But your stronghold Might heroes all have access to Mass Heal, Mass Life Drain, Mass regeneration. And they WILL spam these spells nonstop.

With 1 charge no they won't. Life drain is fun but at 10-15% not really spectacular. A magic hero can decrease another's spellpower through his own and there's purge, dispell and all that jazz. My only issue is counterstrike III which should really be nerfed.
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RollingWave
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Re: unbalanced

Postby RollingWave » Nov 14 2011, 2:46

cjlee wrote:Stronghold Might is too powerful with magic; Stronghold Magic is too weak with magic.

There is only one stronghold unit that uses magic damage, so your Shamans (Magic heroes) are at a disadvantage. They can't cast prime magic, so they're deprived of good spells like Time Stasis (3 free turns to whack an enemy unit) or Meditation (free mana recharge).

But your stronghold Might heroes all have access to Mass Heal, Mass Life Drain, Mass regeneration. And they WILL spam these spells nonstop.
Mass Life drain now works on ranged units (and these orcs have 3 ranged attackers; one double-attack attacker; one no-retaliation harpy and one hits-everyone panther warrior), so ALL stronghold might heroes are very, very scary.

This is partially true, though Barbarians have TERRIBLE mana growth early on so you'll have a have a hard time sustaining those spells, and later on summon elementals still help, and you still can get things like blind/ retribution 3 / petrification etc..
Their sole weakness (applicable to all might heroes) is lack of mana. It's not a big deal given the many wonderful abilities that might heroes have, so I'm leaning towards this as the strongest faction.
I think Sancturary is better as whole, though the difference isn't that far and depends on situations.

@rollingwave

Goblins are incredibly powerful. In early game, just buy a few and use them to set traps nonstop. It allows your hero attacks to dispatch the enemy without losses. These are not the weak, wimpy goblins of Heroes V. They can set traps every 2 turns and these traps never fail. (Unless enemy has high morale or flies).

Ahem: trap's CD is 3 turn not 2, which is one reason I think they're blah, and also the other problem is that for some reason trap's damage don't seem to go up as much with your might growth as their basic attacks, by late game even without archery 3 or unicorn bow my goblins end up hitting much moer via range attack than it's trap damage, trap either relaly needs to be 2 turn CD or needs to slow enemy movement for an additional turn or needs proper might growth.
The river of time wash away all heroes


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