Epilogue (spoilers)

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Epilogue (spoilers)

Postby Avonu » Nov 4 2011, 13:51

I just finished both epilogue maps and I have one question:

Why both reputation path endings have the same outro where Cate is dead and Raelag speaks to Jorgen?

I assume that is a bug and Tears path should have another ending, where Cate is sill alive, Pavel's spirit is free and Micheal's and rest of Angels souls returned to Elrath at last.

Or maybe it's only bug in Polish version of game?

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Re: Epilogue (spoilers)

Postby ywhtptgtfo » Nov 5 2011, 15:35

Avonu wrote:I just finished both epilogue maps and I have one question:

Why both reputation path endings have the same outro where Cate is dead and Raelag speaks to Jorgen?

I assume that is a bug and Tears path should have another ending, where Cate is sill alive, Pavel's spirit is free and Micheal's and rest of Angels souls returned to Elrath at last.

Or maybe it's only bug in Polish version of game?


It's the same for English version. Funny thing is that Cate's supposedly guarded by the main hero and she dies no matter what.

Then Sveltana, in her eulogy, said Cate's an able mother (yeah... like she did much).

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Postby XEL II » Nov 5 2011, 16:15

Gosh people, Cate dies in the Teras finale because she was killed by the long ritual. Simple as that.

Jorgen and Raelag talk in both versions because the Faceless are pretty much unaffected by the whole Michael vs. Cate conflict in both endings. In Blood, Cate fails to summon the Faceless, and the conflict is pretty much contained. In Tears, it's Michael who is the aggressor, and he is killed by five Griffin siblings before he and the Angelic Host could launch a full-scale war against the Faceless.

P.S. Although IMO the exact same dialogue between Jorgen and Raelag i nboth endings was a bit of a cop out. I think the conversation should have been different in some specific details.
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark

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Re: Epilogue (spoilers)

Postby XEL II » Nov 5 2011, 16:18

ywhtptgtfo wrote:Then Sveltana, in her eulogy, said Cate's an able mother (yeah... like she did much).

Yep, to me both Cate and Sveltana were the least likeable characters in wthe entire game. They're both are basically shallow Mary Sue types. And Sveltana's voice acting was terrible.
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark

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Re: Epilogue (spoilers)

Postby ywhtptgtfo » Nov 5 2011, 20:38

XEL II wrote:
ywhtptgtfo wrote:Then Sveltana, in her eulogy, said Cate's an able mother (yeah... like she did much).

Yep, to me both Cate and Sveltana were the least likeable characters in wthe entire game. They're both are basically shallow Mary Sue types. And Sveltana's voice acting was terrible.


As I've said in another thread, pretty much all characters are under-developed, except for maybe Anastasia.

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Postby Avonu » Nov 5 2011, 21:32

XEL II wrote:Gosh people, Cate dies in the Teras finale because she was killed by the long ritual. Simple as that.

Powerful Dragon Knight died because of such trivial thing as 7 days ritual? C'mon, she only needed to read Angels names and their deeds. Nothing more. And she was quite fine when she chat with Michael before final fight.

Also, I read in official game guide (approved by Ubi PL and based on press release version) that Blood Path has different ending then Tears path. I think I can belive its words especially if Ubisoft trademark is on it. Generally this guide is quite accurate.

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Postby Corlagon » Nov 5 2011, 21:52

I know the game is filled with bugs, but it isn't quite that extreme. The ending you saw is correct and deliberate. It is even foreshadowed in an interlude:

This will take days, perhaps a week. I may have to give my life to do this. Do not let me be disturbed!

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Postby XEL II » Nov 5 2011, 23:40

Avonu wrote:Also, I read in official game guide (approved by Ubi PL and based on press release version) that Blood Path has different ending then Tears path. I think I can belive its words especially if Ubisoft trademark is on it. Generally this guide is quite accurate.

They are different.

In Tears, five Griffin siblings side with Cate, and Michael is going to launch an offensive against the Faceless, reincarnating Angels that died during the Elder Wars. Cate performs the ritual to make the angel souls pass on, and the armies of the five siblings kill Michael. Cate dies because of the ritual.

In Blood, the siblings side with Michael, and Cate, desperate to prevent Michael's attack, becomes the aggressor, preparing to summon the Faceless in the deep tunnels beneath Ashan. The siblings defeat Cate's allies and, unable to convince her to stop, kill her in battle, preventing the new war between Faceless and Angels. Michael survives.
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Postby Avonu » Nov 6 2011, 8:09

Different outro XEL. :P

Now we have the same ending. What is the point of having two epilogue maps, if both endings are the same? Yes, maps are different but ending is the same - Cate is dead and Raelag speaks with Jorgen. But what about Micheal's crusade? There is no mention about it in both endings, we have only words about Cate fate, nothing about Micheals and his plans.

And there is no word how Cate died in Tears epilogue. You can guess what happened but there are no text that ritual or Micheal killed her. And she seems quite fine before final battle, in the last day of ritual. At it seems she completed it as she goes off from building to Michael and chats with him (and why it is the same text as in Blood path? ;P).

In Blood path we know how she died. In Tears path there is nothing, no explanation at all. Besides, we protected her all 7 days and it really seems strange that she is dead.

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Postby Corlagon » Nov 6 2011, 13:47

Well, take it or leave it, but it is a different ending. Sufficiently different or not, that's entirely your call, but Michael lives in one and dies in the other.

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Postby Avonu » Nov 6 2011, 15:04

From only game point of view (not story or lore) they are the same. Defeat both bosses and read both ending after that, you should see that these are the same texts.

And (again from only game point of view) we don't know if Michael survived last battle against Cate. Maybe he lost his will of life just like Cate in Tears epilogue? :P

BTW - how Jorgen could speak with Raelag if he was killed? ;)
Ofc Faceless as a race have one mind/memories but IIRC in both ending the Faceless speaking with Raelag was named Jorgen.

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Postby XEL II » Nov 6 2011, 15:39

Avonu wrote:BTW - how Jorgen could speak with Raelag if he was killed? ;)

He wasn't killed, just his forces defeated. © Captain Obvious
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark

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Postby Avonu » Nov 6 2011, 15:54

XEL II wrote:
Avonu wrote:BTW - how Jorgen could speak with Raelag if he was killed? ;)

He wasn't killed, just his forces defeated. © Captain Obvious


Jorgen last words wrote:Ahhhh… This light… My soul… There is no absolute truth… Malassa, cover me in your darkness.

Sounds like final words.

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Postby XEL II » Nov 6 2011, 16:06

There's nothing to indicate that these are his final words. Furthermore, he says the same line when being tortured by the Inquisition earlier in the campaign. And his presence in the outro alone, given the lack of any indication of gis death, proves that he survived his battle against Griffin siblings.
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark

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Postby Avonu » Nov 6 2011, 22:14

XEL II wrote:Furthermore, he says the same line when being tortured by the Inquisition earlier in the campaign


Nice to know that Epilogue not only uses the same texts for both endings but also uses texts from previous campaigns. HoMMVI: "The Masters of Recycling". :P

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Postby Pol » Nov 6 2011, 22:27

Avonu wrote:
XEL II wrote:Furthermore, he says the same line when being tortured by the Inquisition earlier in the campaign


Nice to know that Epilogue not only uses the same texts for both endings but also uses texts from previous campaigns. HoMMVI: "The Masters of Recycling". :P

You should be proud on Ubisoft to being economical savvy!

Although it would be better if they would deliver a better game.
Recycling Angels, recycling ideas, yellow strange eyes.

Avonu did you unlocked all achievements? I remember when I was comparing myself toward you, few weeks back, you were quite ahead. Almost done. :P
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Postby Avonu » Nov 6 2011, 22:37

Nope. I wont sit at Inferno map 2 and press End Turn at infinitum just to get 25th Anniversary achievement. :P
I got what I can (just by playing campaigns) and I think I miss only bugged achievements. So probably not more at near time.

Now I am checking custom/singleplayer maps (these new ones added in 1.1 patch are just recycled campaign maps :P) to see if they are good. To be honest I don't think that useing campaign maps are bad idea. They seems to be quite OK (excludings bugs ofc :P)

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Postby Pol » Nov 6 2011, 23:36

What about "Close and Personal"? :P

Whereas I admit that playing 8400 turns can spoil the fun. A bit.
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Postby Avonu » Nov 7 2011, 7:24

Image

It was easy. AI sent lots and lots of heroes without army. Defeating them is a way to win without single shot. ;)

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Postby Avonu » Sep 20 2012, 7:41

Some texts about ending, which Marzhin was kind to share with us.
However these are texts that didn't make it into the game, and therefore might not be considered canonical.

Marzhin wrote:There was supposed to be a cool ending cutscene at the end of each Epilogue map (not only the one with Raelag showing up). Unfortunately it had to be cut. Then I wrote a text so there would at least be something. It was never implemented.


Tears Ending
“Subdued and chained, Michael is brought into the Hall of Memories where your mother, Cate, the Dragon Knight of Malassa, is finishing her week-long ritual to free the souls of the angels killed during the Elder Wars. Hundreds of burning golden orbs are circling around her while she levitates in the center of the room, entranced. The last name she utters is Michael’s name, before calling Elrath himself, demanding the release of his children, allowing them to move on to a new life. As the final word is spoken, a pillar of burning light descends from the heavens and hits the center of the room in a blinding explosion. The soul embers whirl around the column as Elrath accepts your mother’s plea.
Michael himself, having accepted the judgment of his Dragon God, lowers his head before being dissolved into golden dust from which two golden fires emerge – one of which you know belongs to your own grandfather, Duke Pavel, the vessel Uriel and Sarah used to bring Michael back. But as your gaze returns to your mother who has become the epicenter of the maelstrom, you discover with horror that the Dragon Knight herself is being disintegrated by Elrath’s light. You realize she always knew a servant of Malassa could never survive such an ordeal – this was a price she was always willing to pay, the ultimate sacrifice. Her own soul ascends last and maybe it’s only wishful thinking on your part, but you could swear to have caught a glimpse of your father’s spirit, waiting for her. Then the pillar of light dissolves, and the noise of endless wars is silenced, at last.”


Blood Ending
“As your mother lies on the ground near the edge of the abyss, defeated, Michael draws his sword and approaches, a victorious smile on the corner of his mouth. As he prepares to deal the final blow, the shadows around him suddenly become alive, revealing several Faceless and a cloaked figure. Michael turns to face the newcomers, offering Cate the opportunity she had been waiting for. Gathering the last of her strength for one final assault, she transforms into a Dragon and leaps onto Michael, tearing his wings to shreds with her claws. As the archangel screams in fury and pain, an arrow pierces the darkness and plunges itself in Michael’s heart. His smile twisted into a bewildered grimace, Michael makes one final step backwards and falls into the gaping darkness of the bottomless abyss, his tattered wings flapping uselessly. His scream of anguish and despair echoes in the caves for a few dreadful seconds, then it’s over. Your mother falls dead on the ground, her life extinguished in that ultimate act of defiance. You prepare to fight the Faceless assassins, but they have already vanished, apparently satisfied with the outcome of what had possibly always been an elaborate trap.
Only the cloaked figure remains, still holding the bow with which he claimed Michael’s life. He removes his hood, revealing the pale, insolent face of an Elf. With a shadow of sadness in his eyes, he salutes the fallen Dragon Knight before disappearing into the darkness.”



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