Faction analysis: Necropolis

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Faction analysis: Necropolis

Postby RollingWave » Nov 4 2011, 8:39

So this thread is devoted to analyizing the units / heroes / skills of this faction. let me get a bit of a start .

Necromancer's special skill in H6 is ... well Necromancy, but differing from previous versions it no longer raises dead into new units, instead it can only revive dead units of current existing once, in another word, it's basically a heal / resurrection ability. It's generally considered one of the best ability so far.

Units:

Core-

Ghouls: your basic melee unit, it's fast moving and above average in hitting power amongst the Core level melees . It's specialty is that it has dmg reduction against might attacks. upgraded versions also gains additional movement / dmg against living targets.

Skeletons: Skeles are back as the factions' core range unit, it's pretty crappy as far as range units go, with it's specialty being that it takes reduce damage from other range attacks, and upgraded version can decrease it's target(and surroning stacks's) movement by 1. not exactly great, it also only have half range so it's dmg output is quite poor unless the target is very close to you.

Ghosts: Ghosts are anohther old fella, this time their special ability is a heal that also damage nearby living enemies (and friend). a potentially devastating move. it's also quite resistent to most damage except light magic. upgrade version have the ability to decrease the heal effectiveness of enemies around them, given how important heal spells are in this game that is pretty useful.

general thought : the biggest attribute of Necro Core units are that they're tough to kill, though against haven faction that may not be true,. Skeletons kinda on the weak side as of now unless you get a bow of the unicorn on them to remove the half penalty. and unlike goblins they don't have other active abilities. Ghoul is generally well rounde and Ghosts are probably the most useful of the three.


Elite Creatures

Lich: The range unit is pretty strong, with his ability being to lower the defense of enemy stacks against dark attack (which many of your attacks are) the upgraded version can use one attack to also drain life to other units (but not themself).

Vampires: Unlike other versions in previous games, this time Vampires don't have no retaliation, but he still have life drain and teleportation. they're fairly tankie but they can only move 4/5 square per turn, which reduce their effectiveness greatly, and their dmg isn't particularly great either., they do have one extra somewhat useful ability in that if you defend the first guy that attack him will fail... but that's only marginally useful (like if you have taunt or something.)

Lamasu: a new unit, it's stats is rather underwhelming for elite creatures, but it does have a strong ability albiet hard to utilize well, it will reduce the maximum HP per turn of enemy that start his turn next to him, and it can stack, which can add up really well, but getting enemies to start next to you is a rather obvious problem... the upgraded version adds an effet for his attack as well so that makes it more useful.


General thought : right now Vampires seems meh.. and Lamasus are pretty useless without the upgrades, Lich is really good though.

Champion:

Fate Spinners : a really cool unit obviously, high damage and cool abilities. not much to complain here, all the champs in this game are pretty damn strong so it's hard to make comparisons. at this point though, is it just me or is the melee version rather useless? it does less damage and only marginally more durable. I guess it's point is to be only used when people surrond you?
Last edited by RollingWave on Nov 4 2011, 21:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Mirez » Nov 4 2011, 13:10

Skeletons do not have any abilities? webbing spears can make a huge difference.
As for ghosts I'd like to add that they have a huge damage gap (3/7 iirc), they do massive damage when you use flawless assault on them.
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Postby Ell1e » Nov 4 2011, 13:39

I agree, especially against hit and run creatures, -1 movement is seriously good. The AI always moves them so they can just reach their target on the next turn, so webbed spears will buy you some time. You can also use them to lower the range of other shooters and allow your melee troops to get closer to them.

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Postby Spin » Nov 4 2011, 14:12

vampires are the hugest disappointment to me, knowing they're not overpowered like they were in Heroes 3/4. They seem like the least useful Elite Creature to be honest, in fact the entire necro Elite is fairly meh.

The champion unit however is by far my most favourite in the game. I was giggling like a little school girl the first time i got my hands on a few of them.

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Postby parcaleste » Nov 4 2011, 14:20

Spin wrote:... the entire necro Elite is fairly meh...

Ask them Liches the next time you meet some of them, esp. a bit earlier in the game. :D


Otherwise Vampires are PATHETIC (+15% regeneration? Nice joke. I would understand this one if they had the No Retaliation ability, but with the regular retaliation they are just a joke), Lamasus are a bit better... perhaps.

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Postby Metathron » Nov 4 2011, 14:25

Spin wrote:vampires are the hugest disappointment to me, knowing they're not overpowered like they were in Heroes 3/4. They seem like the least useful Elite Creature to be honest, in fact the entire necro Elite is fairly meh.

The champion unit however is by far my most favourite in the game. I was giggling like a little school girl the first time i got my hands on a few of them.


I would rank vampires as being only "fair". The biggest disappointment to me, out of all the units, would be the lamasu. Pathetic damage, and I haven't found a way to utilize their special. Other elite units I find underpowered or near useless are the spring spirits/mizu kami who are just so very slow and don't possess any special talents worth mentioning. Then there's the breeders: again, puny damage, but they at least have a useful special against enemy heroes, but they still fade in comparison to some great elite units like the centaurs, liches, glories and especially jaguar warriors.
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Postby parcaleste » Nov 4 2011, 15:37

Metathron wrote:... Other elite units I find underpowered or near useless are the spring spirits/mizu kami who are just so very slow and don't possess any special talents worth mentioning...

Mmmhm, not that I want to say I am using them (because I am lazy and the computor is not offering quiet the challenge to do so :disagree: ), but the "Link" they create with the other Sanctuary units can be quiet painful, because you can link them with ALL the other units in your army, which means when just one creature gets Morale and Luck/Morale or Luck than ALL of your other creatures will get this bonus(es) as well. Not sure if this works for the "next turn", but if is, than prepare for some real pain in your @rse.

About the Breeders - it is funny how they do like 2/3's of the Succubi damage, and even in close combat they are just... tanks 9at least they can absorb damage) but sucking other heroes mana can be really annoying (esp. if this "other hero" is your hero :D ).

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Postby RollingWave » Nov 4 2011, 21:29

On skeletons:

It's a comparison problem

Priestest: epic wave of renewal move and lowers initiative

Marksmen : huge damage potential.

Succumbus : very powerful enthrall move.

Goblin: yeah they suck too , but trap can usually reliablly remove one walker for one turn at least. and since stronghold heroes usually have ridiculas might # their lesser stats are not quite as noticable. at least I find Goblins to be more reliable damage wise than Skeletons (that's not saying much though).

Right now I'd say Priestiest >>>>> Succumbus >=Marksmen >>>> Skeleton = Goblins.


For Lamasus: the only reliable way I can think of using their special would be teleporting them right before their move starts.. which is quite a lot of commitment ... though the upgraded version can dish considerable damage with their breath. Vampire.. I will say this though, they do have very high growth (7) and Necro armies are usually big, which makes up their deficiency somewhat.


In short, most of the Necro Army's real attribute is that they're good tanks, combined with their special abilities and you have one really tough to kill army . A large Necro on Necro battle can be the most frustrating thing ever as both side takes forever to kill each other.
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Postby ywhtptgtfo » Nov 5 2011, 11:08

RollingWave wrote:On skeletons:

It's a comparison problem

Priestest: epic wave of renewal move and lowers initiative

Marksmen : huge damage potential.

Succumbus : very powerful enthrall move.

Goblin: yeah they suck too , but trap can usually reliablly remove one walker for one turn at least. and since stronghold heroes usually have ridiculas might # their lesser stats are not quite as noticable. at least I find Goblins to be more reliable damage wise than Skeletons (that's not saying much though).

Right now I'd say Priestiest >>>>> Succumbus >=Marksmen >>>> Skeleton = Goblins.


For Lamasus: the only reliable way I can think of using their special would be teleporting them right before their move starts.. which is quite a lot of commitment ... though the upgraded version can dish considerable damage with their breath. Vampire.. I will say this though, they do have very high growth (7) and Necro armies are usually big, which makes up their deficiency somewhat.


In short, most of the Necro Army's real attribute is that they're good tanks, combined with their special abilities and you have one really tough to kill army . A large Necro on Necro battle can be the most frustrating thing ever as both side takes forever to kill each other.


The Necromancer faction has good tanks? Are you serious? Maybe you should really get to know the other factions before writing a faction analysis...

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Postby Macros the Black » Nov 5 2011, 12:01

Would you guys say it might be a good idea to cast rush/life drain on Ghouls the first turn and move them into the enemy ranks? Their damage reduction and increased damage against living targets seems to make them the unit of choice for an early assault. Then move in your lamasu's and vampires when the enemy has surrounded the ghouls and use your ghosts to heal/damage all the surrounding enemy units. In theory, this tactic should also make your necromancy gauge shoot up quickly. Combined with some kind of way to CC an enemy (petrification for instance) or teleport like mentioned earlier you could get your lamasu to even get his special off...

The problem I can see with this is that it relies on hero skills that may not nescesarily be great for a Necromancer otherwise (except Life Drain), plus if you're assaulting them then the skeleton's web is even more useless.

/haven't even played Necromancer yet myself
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Postby Mozared » Nov 5 2011, 12:06

I haven't played the Necro's yet either, but I've heard someone suggest it in another topic. It seems a tactic that's usable in a couple of instances, if nowhere else. I'd definitely use it against all-ranged enemy units, and as long as you can heal the Ghouls enough to prevent losses it seems like something that might work. It'd be a welcome break from the ancient ritual of boxing your archers and letting the enemy come to you.

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Postby Jac » Nov 5 2011, 14:44

parcaleste wrote:
Metathron wrote:... Other elite units I find underpowered or near useless are the spring spirits/mizu kami who are just so very slow and don't possess any special talents worth mentioning...

Mmmhm, not that I want to say I am using them (because I am lazy and the computor is not offering quiet the challenge to do so :disagree: ), but the "Link" they create with the other Sanctuary units can be quiet painful, because you can link them with ALL the other units in your army, which means when just one creature gets Morale and Luck/Morale or Luck than ALL of your other creatures will get this bonus(es) as well. Not sure if this works for the "next turn", but if is, than prepare for some real pain in your @rse.

About the Breeders - it is funny how they do like 2/3's of the Succubi damage, and even in close combat they are just... tanks 9at least they can absorb damage) but sucking other heroes mana can be really annoying (esp. if this "other hero" is your hero :D ).


Are you sure that's how Sanctuary's link ability works? I remember trying to use that on as many units as possible in battle, but linking the second unit un-links the first. Is anyone able to confirm this?

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Postby ywhtptgtfo » Nov 5 2011, 15:37

Nope. Life link only works on one unit at a time.

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Postby Jac » Nov 5 2011, 17:08

Yeah... pretty useless unit.

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Postby parcaleste » Nov 5 2011, 17:22

Well, then I guess I was just lucky these few battles I used them. :D

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Postby Mirez » Nov 5 2011, 17:49

So what about the fate spinner/weaver?

Does anybody else think it's strange the big monster form is a shooter while the humanoid form isn't?
What form do you usually use? Any particular use for their special abilities?
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Postby parcaleste » Nov 5 2011, 18:34

I personally find it strange she(?) shoots laser beams...

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Postby Tale » Nov 5 2011, 19:31

Jac wrote:
parcaleste wrote:
Metathron wrote:... Other elite units I find underpowered or near useless are the spring spirits/mizu kami who are just so very slow and don't possess any special talents worth mentioning...

... but the "Link" they create with the other Sanctuary units can be quiet painful, because you can link them with ALL the other units in your army, which means when just one creature gets Morale and Luck/Morale or Luck than ALL of your other creatures will get this bonus(es) as well.


Are you sure that's how Sanctuary's link ability works? I remember trying to use that on as many units as possible in battle, but linking the second unit un-links the first. Is anyone able to confirm this?


From my experience, a second application delinks the first, and neither morale nor luck triggers through the link. What the ability does is give a mirror to the target that shares friendly spells (i.e., regen, heal, ice armor, etc., and I *think* the coral/pearl priestess spell is also included) and also offers the innate pain mirror and damage reduction buffs that the spring spirit/ mizu kami gets. I would absolutely not classify that as useless; a flat, undispellable damage reduction and a pain mirror on top of, say, the kensei's unlimited retaliation makes the kensei pretty damn awesome for tanking. Now, admittedly, after the first application I tend to just leave the spring spirit/ mizu kami in the back defending for the rest of combat...

I know that this is a necropolis analysis thread, but as far as the sanctuary creatures go, the only one of them I ever found to be wasted is the kirin. Until it upgrades to get its breath, I just sit it in the back with my archers and protect them. The thing doesn't even fly for some inexplicable reason. It's just a walking, boring movement buffer that I only ever used to move the kensei a few squares closer to the enemy. Admittedly, I play conservatively with my champions so I may have missed something about the kirin, but, other than it, the rest of the units were awesome.

More on topic, I prefer the ranged fate weaver. But, again, I'm conservative and prefer ranged in general.
Last edited by Tale on Nov 5 2011, 19:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby RollingWave » Nov 5 2011, 19:38

Link: It's actually pretty good when you link Kenshi / Kensai, the pain mirror and damage reduction goes well with the unlimited retaliations, of course you probably want to reinforce the Kenshi and also wave of renewal them.


Weaver : It's special ability are basically "use when you get mobbed" skills, though you probably want to avoid the situations that would make them useful in the first place :P The humanoid versian has bleaful gaze which essentially means that the first unit in that fight to attack her while she's in humoid form takes a **** of damage.

It's use is fairly straitforward, normally use range version and if you get draged into serious melee change to melee. both version's upgraded version ability essentially deals with when they get mobed so shooting either is good. though the ranged version one seem to be more useful.
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Postby Mozared » Nov 6 2011, 0:33

In response to the link - the problem is you guys are comparing 'having link' to 'having nothing at all'. Of course it comes good out of the equation. What'd you rather have, 20 Praetorians or no Praetorians?

What you need to compare it with is something of similar costs. Spirit Link or 20 more Kappa Shoya's? Spirit Link or 5 Kenshi's? Spirit link or two Kirins? I'd prefer additional units in probably all those cases.


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