Tactics Help with Haven

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

Moderator: Moderators

mysticc
Peasant
Peasant
Posts: 51
Joined: 22 Oct 2011

Tactics Help with Haven

Postby mysticc » Oct 24 2011, 20:11

I'm replaying the haven campaign since I messed up my hero and I think I'm getting better at not losing any troops in most battles. Sometimes it's hard though - I try so many tactics and it's hard not to lose anything. I try though. At the least, I try and lose only conscripts or something.

There are some annoyances though and I want to overcome them. The griffons seem like a bad unit. I don't like how the game won't tell me WHEN it's going to land when it dives, so I don't know if I should approximate where the enemy's going to move, or dive right on top of the enemy.

Also, I don't like how the Dive puts the Griffon on a random tile on the battlefield. Sometimes it picks a nice, safe spot. At other times, it lands right next to the enemy - which also means it's next to other enemies. Then I end up taking 12-15 losses, which I basically reload.

It seems that the defense on the griffons is pretty bad, so you can't take hits at all or your future dps is going to go down. Using it like a regular unit doesn't make a lot of sense.

Also, how do you know if the enemy is ranged or not? I find myself quick-saving just before a battle all the time. I run into so many units I've never seen before, that I don't know which units I should not field until my reload. This can't be the proper way to play the game, is it? Seems kind of cheap, but I honestly don't know what else to do. If I accept my losses, I'll never compete with the stronger and stronger armies.

I also find the squires to be mostly useless. Are they meant to just die so that other units don't have to die? At least the conscripts have a purpose - to take losses and to do a lot of damage when the enemy comes closer.

Also, I wish there wasn't such a low light radius for the fog of war. It's so small that I don't even know which direction I need to move in sometimes, so I often waste a lot of movement per turn just showing the map. I actually wish it was just gone.

Basically I just abuse the Paladins/Cavaliers and Archers. That seems like the best way to win every battle.

User avatar
Arret
Hunter
Hunter
Posts: 540
Joined: 12 Oct 2011

Postby Arret » Oct 24 2011, 23:23

What you have about the units for haven sounds about right.

Squires are meat shields, meant to take hits while your archers/hero/ballista deal damage. Priests are fairly weak ranged units with a lot of hp, although the upgraded version can cast spell buffs. Peasants are weak units only good for very early or the 1g/day each give until you get 700 or so.

With griffins, one neat trick is to only deploy imperials and then just dive bomb everything. Works even better if the enemy is only 1 stack.

I don't remember if you get angels in the campaign, but if you do, they are really nice once upgraded.

As for determining what is ranged, I can't remember if there is an in game way, but I'll try to do it off the top of my head:

Haven: Archers (Marksmen), Priests (Inquistors)
Inferno: Succubus
Necromancer: Upgraded skeletons, Liches
Dungeon: Scouts (assassins), Shadow Mistresses
Sylvan: Hunters, Druids
Academy: Gremlins, Mages, Upgraded Collosi (Titans)
Neutral: Fire Elementals
Last edited by Arret on Oct 24 2011, 23:27, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Arret
Hunter
Hunter
Posts: 540
Joined: 12 Oct 2011

Postby Arret » Oct 24 2011, 23:24

Particularly in the campaign, archers and paladins are your major damage dealers. I usually don't even bother with most of the other units unless I have spare cash.

In order to reduce casualties, you should aim for the Resurrection spell (Level 5 light), which allows you to lose units and then have your hero bring them all back (as long as you have the spell points).

mysticc
Peasant
Peasant
Posts: 51
Joined: 22 Oct 2011

Postby mysticc » Oct 25 2011, 0:19

Yeah, I've been unfielding units like you're saying, and taking advantage of just diving with the griffons while unfielding everything else (sometimes I'll use the cavaliers too though, just because they don't die).

I think the angels/archangels are good units too, but I honestly prefer the cavaliers/paladins if I had to choose. They do have a lot of health and high defense though.

I guess I'm doing everything okay then. It's a shame that the troop game isn't more sophisticated. I was hoping for all 7 tiers to be useful. Now I can see why heroes 6 is using 4 tiers. Makes sense if this is how the gameplay turns out to be.

User avatar
Arret
Hunter
Hunter
Posts: 540
Joined: 12 Oct 2011

Postby Arret » Oct 25 2011, 2:57

Haven's specialty is having high defense troops (the problem is this usually means low damage which isn't good in a campaign).

If you want all the tiers to be good, you seem more like a Necropolis player (campaign 3). All their tiers are good except the 2nd (zombies). The point of the campaign is to get a feel for the different races and their strengths/weaknesses.

Remember, this is the first campaign and its purpose to introduce a new player to the game. The others should be harder.

mysticc
Peasant
Peasant
Posts: 51
Joined: 22 Oct 2011

Postby mysticc » Oct 25 2011, 3:09

I think the challenge is fine. I wish the maps were a bit smaller, at least The Trap - a little too big.

The griffons are a really annoying creature. Several times now, they land in a spot that blocks my cavaliers from attacking because there is walls in the terrain. This is so annoying since I know the griffon lands in a random spot - it basically removes my best attack, which often means units unnecessarily die.

I swear, the griffon needs a patch. I want to know WHEN it lands and I want to specify WHERE it lands. Otherwise, the dive ability is only good for special situations where you use the dive ability against a ranged unit and unfield all the other units to stop the ranged unit from firing - that's the only situation it's abusable in. The problem is, I don't want it to be abusable - I want to use it. The problem is that it basically sucks in every other situation.

Anyway, I hope the next faction is a bit better. I'm a little frustrated with this one - the griffons are not my favorite unit at all. It's designed so poorly.
Last edited by mysticc on Oct 25 2011, 4:08, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Arret
Hunter
Hunter
Posts: 540
Joined: 12 Oct 2011

Postby Arret » Oct 25 2011, 3:14

When it lands is simple. Simply follow the ATB bar until you see where the next instance of the griffin is. It will drop down at that point in time. This should have been documented better in the game. Of course as I recall, it gets wiped off once it jumps in the air, but if you check before you initiate the special you can plan for it.

User avatar
parcaleste
Pit Lord
Pit Lord
Posts: 1204
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Location: Sofia - Vulgaria

Postby parcaleste » Oct 25 2011, 7:28

The one thing that will help you the most is Angels or Cavalry + Vampirism (Dark Magic is A MUST in the Campaigns). Most of the time I am moving with nothing else. Of course, to go with this combo you'll need to get there, so concentrate on Archers and battles with weak neutrals till you get the resources.
Griffins Battle Dive can be very useful, you will just need some practicing to see how exactly it works. The random landing after the Dive itself can be really annoying at times, but overall it is one really useful ability.

Remember that you can have a nice (ab)use with your higher level units and the Regeneration spell too, because it is only lvl 2 and you can learn it and with lvl 1 hero with no special skills or so.
(have to add that this with these two spells is working if you play the Campaigns through TotE :D )


Also, when you build your castle, aim for the low costing buildings first, and check the resources that they cost (ore, wood, gems, whatever) because you want to build your Capitol for these 4k gold per day, no? It is not a big problem if you built Griffins, Footmen and Cavaliers AFTER you have the Angels built. Often you don't need and the upgrades, because you have to build some other unit that you will be able to recruit (esp. if it is Day 7 :D). If you ask me upgrade ONLY your archers (sometimes even that is not needed) and AIM FOR THEM ANGELS!*

*after you have built your Capitol, of course ;)



Have to warn you about the next campaign - you will play with the Demons (which is fun) but it gets kinda annoying in mission 3 (and in some part in 4) with the lack of your own castle, which sucks cause you can't use your racial abilities. At least you will gain some really useful experience in battle tactics. :P

Also be sure you are using the Skill Wheel correctly, it can really save your ass.

mysticc
Peasant
Peasant
Posts: 51
Joined: 22 Oct 2011

Postby mysticc » Oct 25 2011, 12:58

Does Chapter 1-5 have a bug in it where you can go to the SE corner of the map and not win? I got no victory screen. There are 2 gates. I killed the bottom one easily, but the top one is insane. It has 100 top tier 6 or 7 units. There's no way I can win.

Please don't say I have to restart...

User avatar
parcaleste
Pit Lord
Pit Lord
Posts: 1204
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Location: Sofia - Vulgaria

Postby parcaleste » Oct 25 2011, 15:37

Originally you are not supposed to go there (the Garrison that leads to the Demon town?), but if you put enough effort you can go trough this Garrison (if I understood you correctly). I remember one time I put it in my "priority list" and even won the battle without loses (Dark Magic FTW :D ).

Anyway, there is nothing special on the other side, so you can take it as a nice little challenge. :P

As far as I remember (and if I am thinking/talking of the same map, check with which hero you should go there (I think it was Godric). :)

mysticc
Peasant
Peasant
Posts: 51
Joined: 22 Oct 2011

Postby mysticc » Oct 25 2011, 15:59

Yeah, I went there with godric. I also already gave the tears of ashara (or whatever it's called) to Dunmoor. So my town has this artifact and the town level is 35 (it has that building constructed).

So I'm not sure what else to do. I've killed every unit on the map, I've killed a bunch of the red faction's heroes a dozen times over, and I've cleared out the south gate with godric. What is there left to do?

It's weird... but I think there's a bug in the campaign scripting possibly.

User avatar
parcaleste
Pit Lord
Pit Lord
Posts: 1204
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Location: Sofia - Vulgaria

Postby parcaleste » Oct 25 2011, 16:20

Go there and with Isabel, could work. Check your quest log, if nothing else.


... if nothing helps, well... restart the map.

mysticc
Peasant
Peasant
Posts: 51
Joined: 22 Oct 2011

Postby mysticc » Oct 25 2011, 16:22

I'll try with isabel. I hope I don't have to restart the map. That's several hours of play gone down the drain :(

EDIT: See this picture:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/443421/homm5-1.png

You can clearly see I have both heroes there.

User avatar
parcaleste
Pit Lord
Pit Lord
Posts: 1204
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Location: Sofia - Vulgaria

Postby parcaleste » Oct 25 2011, 16:51

Show one of your quest log.


I am pretty sure there was a mod that was opening all of your campaigns, if you don't want to play this one over you can search for it here.

User avatar
ShadowLiberal
Golem
Golem
Posts: 634
Joined: 27 Mar 2010
Location: Shadow Land

Postby ShadowLiberal » Oct 25 2011, 17:03

To answer a few questions.

-To know if an enemy is ranged or not right click on them and view their 'shots' stat, that says how many attacks they have left if they're ranged. Some units also have mana to cast spells that can damage you.

-If you want to avoid causalities get Expert Light Magic and resurrect. Unfortunately it's not until mission #4 that you even have a chance of getting this in the Haven campaign, but the spell is well worth it.

-If you want a really good Haven hero I'd suggest getting Light Magic/Dark Magic/Enlightenment/Sorcery. That way you can both curse your foes, and buff and revive your own units. Enlightenment will give a major boost to your defense and power stats to.

-As for where you're stuck, at a certain point after you kill enough enemy heroes you should get a mission to send Godric to the edge of the map to get help. Once you take a few steps away from the gate and towards the edge of the map Godric should disappear.

One other thing if you have to replay mission #5 of the Haven mission. Once Godric leaves the map STAY AWAY FROM THE DEMON TOWN AND THE PLACE WHERE GODRIC LEFT THE MAP. The first time I played mission I had Isabelle sitting just outside the gate, only for Agrael with legions of troops to destroy her army in like 30 seconds and cost me the game.

mysticc
Peasant
Peasant
Posts: 51
Joined: 22 Oct 2011

Postby mysticc » Oct 25 2011, 17:15

I figured out the problem, and beat the mission. The problem was that the AI got stuck, and so Agreal (I think that's how you spell it) was actually stuck in the section of my map in the screenshot I posted that wasn't unveiled yet. I didn't even know I could go in there actually, but I tried it since that was basically the only thing left to me.

Once I killed Agreal, the 2 demons from the portals and another attack came, and the story progressed as normal. Very weird.

I actually think the fact that Agreal got stuck may have made the mission easier ;)

Anyway, time for the next campaign.

mysticc
Peasant
Peasant
Posts: 51
Joined: 22 Oct 2011

Postby mysticc » Oct 25 2011, 18:01

With the Inferno campaign, what are the best ways to not lake loses?

In the first mission, you have to fight 10 priests. the best I can do is lose 30 imps.

Is it possible to do better? How?

User avatar
parcaleste
Pit Lord
Pit Lord
Posts: 1204
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Location: Sofia - Vulgaria

Postby parcaleste » Oct 25 2011, 20:06

Well, the first mission is kinda tricky, cause you have to run from Godric (I think). If you are patient enough and use the Sanctuaries right you can even collect all the bonuses from the map. I guess you gotta try hit and run with the Cerberies, this is all I can remember, played that so long ago, ha-ha.


BDW it will not be a bad idea to check the manual... or just exploit the game ;)

mysticc
Peasant
Peasant
Posts: 51
Joined: 22 Oct 2011

Postby mysticc » Oct 25 2011, 21:07

I managed to beat it. i think I got most of the benefits - at least the permanent ones. I wish I nabbed more gold though to buy more units towards the end. The last battle was kind of hard.

There are some unfair battles in this one, like the water elementals in the cave. Yeah right. I just skipped them.

The priests at the beginning were also a bit unfair. I tried every tactic I knew. Losing 30 imps is the best I could do. It's either that, or lose less of other units that are more valuable.

The last battle was pretty hard, but I specialized in gating quite heavily. At least this is some way to get some economy's worth out of your units. It only sucks that the AI knows they are bait and doesn't attack them though.

User avatar
ShadowLiberal
Golem
Golem
Posts: 634
Joined: 27 Mar 2010
Location: Shadow Land

Postby ShadowLiberal » Oct 25 2011, 22:05

You might want to read some of the guides at the main site if you haven't already.

http://www.celestialheavens.com/viewpage.php?id=119

As for some tips on the demon campaign.

-Unfortunately you have to take some losses to kill the priests in mission #1 to get the boots. It's worth taking the losses however, as Godric with the boots is a nightmare to avoid. You can replace the army you lose elsewhere on the map.

-The computer does tend to try to ignore your gated units and attack your real ones. This isn't always wise in long and drawn out battles however, as a large stack of gated units can deal more damage then your weakened half killed off stacks of real units. Try using the gated units to block access to your real units, and take the retaliation attacks with your gated units when possible.

-I'd suggest getting Light Magic if possible for Agrael (it's not offered that often however, so getting it may not be an option), simply for Resurrect.

-Another good skill to think about is Destructive Magic. Destructive Magic has the 'Searing Fire' ability to increase your Hellfire damage, which is one of the best demonlord abilities in the game in my opinion. It requires getting the fire magic ability first however. I've had stacks of just 1 unit deal over 200 extra damage from the hellfire ability with Searing Fire.


Return to “Heroes V-VI”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests