A goodbye to HOMM! Heroes VI has ended my love for this game

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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Heroes VI is a disappointment

Strongly Agree
25
21%
Agree
19
16%
Neutral
18
15%
Disagree
56
47%
 
Total votes: 118

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Sikon
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Postby Sikon » Oct 16 2011, 19:14

Calabrel wrote:I don't understand the general ire this community has for HoMMV though. I felt that it was as close to HoMMIII greatness as any of the others.


I think it's the residual bitterness from the rough and unpolished state in which V was originally released, and it took several patches and two expansions to get it right.

For what it's worth, I'm going to commit a blasphemy and say I consider V the best game in the series. At least, to me it has the most replay value, and it is the game that has succeeded best at creating a unique playstyle for each faction.

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Postby Calabrel » Oct 17 2011, 5:02

Ah, that might explain it. At the time, I didn't pick up Heroes V until after both expansions were out, because I had assumed that it was going to be similar the the Heroes IV gameplay, which I thought was awful.

Once I heard it was more like the original Heroes, I got it and both expansions and fell in love. I have to agree with you, it seemed to me that it was the most balanced of the series.

Heroes III was great, but let's be honest, some of the artifact sets completely made you unstoppable, town portal and dimension door both broken, and necromancers in general were overpowered.

I'll be playing Heroes V until possibly HoMMVII, six goes in the bin with four for me.

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Postby ledger » Oct 17 2011, 17:11

Sikon wrote:I think it's the residual bitterness from the rough and unpolished state in which V was originally released, and it took several patches and two expansions to get it right.

For what it's worth, I'm going to commit a blasphemy and say I consider V the best game in the series. At least, to me it has the most replay value, and it is the game that has succeeded best at creating a unique playstyle for each faction.

Yeah. This! The skill synergies/bonuses were beautiful, but also slightly limiting. I kinda like the HVI approach, but the skills/abilities need to be thoroughly looked at. The role of the Prime School feels off, especially given how few spells the other schools like Air and Earth have. Some Paragon skills should belong in Realm. Generic skills like Destiny R1-3 and the whole deal behind that. Also, so few types of skills and spells in total. If you exclude the ranks and mass effects, you're looking at a very small set of actual skills to work with.

Anyone could've done better methinks. :/ In a more reasonable design, most of these ranks would've been merged in the first tier, and then the subsequent tiers would open up skills that go in synergy with that said skill. That way, you'd start making your "Luck Demonologist" straight from the get go by investing 3 levels of skill points into Destiny, get one optional point to spend on support until unlocking the next tier for that skill that makes more use of the luck you gained, etc.

Now it seems like every hero sort of equalizes out or gets 'homogenized' at lvl30, as the number of skill points is too high in comparison to the useful combat skills/spells that they can be spent on, and even when the other systems in the game manage to fight the 'one-army-syndrome' that was the case in previous heroes games, this one breaks it in the end.

So with a proposed change like this, there could be much more point spending in the early stages of the game, delaying or just outright preventing the endgame of "yeah we got all the skills for all the heroes".

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Postby jtemperance » Oct 17 2011, 17:24

That's so funny finally to see some love for V here! I find it wildly re-playable and fun but I also got it in a later release, so I missed the understandable frustration about a buggy unplayable initial experience for a lot of dedicated fans. It is dispiriting to see how much of the forum chatter here can be so negative.

As to VI, I agree with an earlier poster that the skill tree is almost too much choice, and, for me, too overwhelming. I've had needless anxiety about the vast number of choices, especially when I'm just getting to know the game, and have only guesses as to what skills will be optimal or even useful. Obviously, most of that reflects on my style as a gamer, and I know I need to just choose, learn, and re-play as needed, but I did want to weigh in with my agreement with an earlier poster about the skill tree.

Peace.

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Postby ledger » Oct 17 2011, 20:15

As to VI, I agree with an earlier poster that the skill tree is almost too much choice, and, for me, too overwhelming. I've had needless anxiety about the vast number of choices, especially when I'm just getting to know the game, and have only guesses as to what skills will be optimal or even useful. Obviously, most of that reflects on my style as a gamer, and I know I need to just choose, learn, and re-play as needed, but I did want to weigh in with my agreement with an earlier poster about the skill tree.

Oh, I was actually hoping to get even more choice with my proposal. :D Forcing more point spending early in simple power upgrades on T1 to limit the number of skill points they have for utility skills. This should prevent them from doing cross specializations until very late in the game, but on the flip side, more "approaches" or "opening builds" would emerge viable.

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Postby jtemperance » Oct 17 2011, 21:11

ledger wrote:Oh, I was actually hoping to get even more choice with my proposal. :D Forcing more point spending early in simple power upgrades on T1 to limit the number of skill points they have for utility skills. This should prevent them from doing cross specializations until very late in the game, but on the flip side, more "approaches" or "opening builds" would emerge viable.


Haha, my misunderstanding; sorry!

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Postby sezerp » Oct 17 2011, 21:21

Sikon wrote:
Calabrel wrote:I don't understand the general ire this community has for HoMMV though. I felt that it was as close to HoMMIII greatness as any of the others.


I think it's the residual bitterness from the rough and unpolished state in which V was originally released, and it took several patches and two expansions to get it right.

For what it's worth, I'm going to commit a blasphemy and say I consider V the best game in the series. At least, to me it has the most replay value, and it is the game that has succeeded best at creating a unique playstyle for each faction.


No, it wasn't only that and it was discussed a thousand times: poor AI, poor performance, limit on number of towns, you couldn't play original campaing in expansion...

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Postby frozd » Oct 17 2011, 21:50

I've finished the game and I really enjoyed it, the story was ok, the voice acting was better (no random spell casting in cut scenes ;( ). I liked the fusion of heroes, disciples, king's bounty stuff together. One major improvement was the turns being faster than in 5, that was really good. I also like that you can take your time in this game, in heroes 5 you'd just rush rush rush and win. Here it's more a back and forth in trying to outgrow your opponent. Bosses were a good addition to the game, made the rpg element good. The skill tree was alright once you figure out what's worth taking for every race.

What i didn't like was the constant market place micro management due to only 4 resources that was annoying. Forts .... were a pretty bad idea, cheesing to the max with that, cause no one guards them anyway. Don't see the usefulness of that apart from campaigns. Converting towns should be limited or made different, so if you have one of your towns maxed out you could convert another something similar to that, cause you get really strong really fast if you have good map control which is easy due to town portals. No dragons, no elves, no devils, arch lich skill doesn't work. Ruined the crossbow men upgrade what the hell were you thinking? Anyone one figured the point of upgrading that unit I haven't.

Hope we get the both elves back in the expansion sure looks like it ;D Raelag! ;D;D;D

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Postby Humakt » Oct 18 2011, 10:28

frozd wrote:Ruined the crossbow men upgrade what the hell were you thinking? Anyone one figured the point of upgrading that unit I haven't.


That's actually a very good upgrade. Often I was able to attack multiple enemies when they were lined properly. Of course you need to be more careful with placing of your own units, but they won't get hit if they are right next to the shooter.

Anyway the game has got me hooked, so it is definitely good. Music is fantastic, and I like the graphical style a lot. Gameplay has depth like in other versions of HoMM. Bugs and conversion animation are annoying but so far that's about it.
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Metathron
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Postby Metathron » Oct 18 2011, 10:41

Humakt wrote:
frozd wrote:Ruined the crossbow men upgrade what the hell were you thinking? Anyone one figured the point of upgrading that unit I haven't.


That's actually a very good upgrade. Often I was able to attack multiple enemies when they were lined properly. Of course you need to be more careful with placing of your own units, but they won't get hit if they are right next to the shooter.

Anyway the game has got me hooked, so it is definitely good. Music is fantastic, and I like the graphical style a lot. Gameplay has depth like in other versions of HoMM. Bugs are annoying but so far that's about it.


I too really dislike the crossbowmen upgrade, since I've been hitting my own units far more often than the enemy, and have had to wait with this unit rather than attack. Perhaps it's something to get used to.

Otherwise, my feelings about the game are more or less the same as yours, Humakt. Consequently, I would also vote differently on this poll now than I did based on the beta.
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Postby Soronarr » Oct 18 2011, 11:10

HEh...I mostly have issues with design.

I loathe the new Sanctuary faction. But it's not a big proble, since I'd never play it in the first place.
What I do hate is what they've done with the Haven faction.

First he griffins....Now blazing glores? And removeal of crusaders/paladins?? WTF? (no, the hero doesn't count! He sits pretty on the side)
It seems the human faction is moving more and more away from human. I liked it the most in the old HOMM2.

Griffins belong with the mages. :mad:

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Postby Metathron » Oct 18 2011, 12:08

Soronarr wrote:Griffins belong with the mages. :mad:


No they dont they belogn to the warlocks!!!!1 :mad: :mad: :mad:
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Sikon
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Postby Sikon » Oct 18 2011, 12:22

I think griffins fit thematically. Plus they were moved to the knight town in Heroes III, which is absolutely perfect and can do no wrong, right? Right?!! </sarcasm>

Mages have an Arabic influence, so no, I don't think griffins fit them. Griffins are best known for being a heraldic symbol in medieval Europe, so it only makes sense to place them in the faction based on medieval Europe. However, the new creatures introduced in VI seem to go away from that theme. The Sisters seem like a Byzantian or perhaps Slavic influence, Sun Riders are a more fantastic version of cavaliers, and Radiant Glories... Good golly, I don't know whose demented mind those came from.

(Funny how VI has more fantastic creatures than V in its Haven faction despite being a prequel... And the Falcon Empire apparently didn't believe in peasant militia, unlike the Griffin Empire.)

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Postby Soronarr » Oct 18 2011, 12:53

Metathron wrote:
Soronarr wrote:Griffins belong with the mages. :mad:


No they dont they belogn to the warlocks!!!!1 :mad: :mad: :mad:


Well..warlocs are basicly mages.
Rocs, Griffins..no matter how you distrubute them between warolocks/mages, it still looks and works good.

Lord..what I wouldn't give for the old HOMM2 factions with their units and look back.

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Postby Torur » Oct 18 2011, 13:02

Soronarr wrote:
Metathron wrote:
Soronarr wrote:Griffins belong with the mages. :mad:


No they dont they belogn to the warlocks!!!!1 :mad: :mad: :mad:


Well..warlocs are basicly mages.
Rocs, Griffins..no matter how you distrubute them between warolocks/mages, it still looks and works good.

Lord..what I wouldn't give for the old HOMM2 factions with their units and look back.

Griffins should be part of the Haven/human factions... It works best when used a the noble crest and beasts of the human factions, IMHO!

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Soronarr
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Postby Soronarr » Oct 18 2011, 13:11

Sikon wrote:Mages have an Arabic influence, so no, I don't think griffins fit them.


They didn't have in H2.
And I find that mage faction a bajjilion times better than the one wit hgremlins and rakshasas...


Griffins are best known for being a heraldic symbol in medieval Europe, so it only makes sense to place them in the faction based on medieval Europe.


Almost every animal was a a herladic symbol in ye olde europe. Wolves, dragons, lions, stags, etc...
If you follow that logic, you cna turn Haven faction into a zoo. :D


and Radiant Glories... Good golly, I don't know whose demented mind those came from.


Someone who likes nymphs and scantly clad females?
I HATE radiant Glories.
If I can, I'm gonna mod and replace them with Paladins (use hero model)

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Sikon
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Postby Sikon » Oct 18 2011, 14:00

Soronarr wrote:Someone who likes nymphs and scantly clad females?

Yeah, you'd think they'd try to diversify their demographics instead of aiming exclusively at drooling pubescent boys. :/

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Postby Soronarr » Oct 19 2011, 6:09

Torur wrote:
Soronarr wrote:
Metathron wrote:
Soronarr wrote:Griffins belong with the mages. :mad:


No they dont they belogn to the warlocks!!!!1 :mad: :mad: :mad:


Well..warlocs are basicly mages.
Rocs, Griffins..no matter how you distrubute them between warolocks/mages, it still looks and works good.

Lord..what I wouldn't give for the old HOMM2 factions with their units and look back.

Griffins should be part of the Haven/human factions... It works best when used a the noble crest and beasts of the human factions, IMHO!


Grifffins look like a magical experiment. They work better with mages.

Also, take a look at what I said above about crests/banners. Griffins fit as much as any other banner creature.

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Metathron
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Postby Metathron » Oct 19 2011, 11:48

In case it was misunderstood, my previous post was tongue-in-cheek and poking fun at Soronarr. :)
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Postby Edwardas 3 » Oct 19 2011, 17:23

They took the worsest thing from Heroes V- ovarlapping overcized cities ,which are very few.
The good thing in heroes 3-4 was to have plentitude of cities ,though 3 has more of them .
Factions units balance also not good .
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