So what's with Blackhole's trailers?

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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ChimTheGrim
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Postby ChimTheGrim » Jun 5 2011, 4:32

ThunderTitan wrote:Problem is that's now how you framed your complaint in your OP.
Consider that the majority of people who might want to play M&M:H6 eventually see the trailers in question. They would likely never know about this forum or see it, so it's very possible that a lot of people get what I'm saying but will never have a voice on any forum. I get this feeling that you're defending a position that really has no defense. How can you tell me that my complaint or how I "framed it" is without merit? Is anything I've said out of touch? I think the majority of people who would see that video, gamers or not, would agree that it was ridiculous for a multi-million dollar company to put out. It's not professional.

edit: also if you're implying that i changed the OP, you're wrong. From the start I commemorated the debut video for M&M:H6. I said it was an awesome trailer and I loved it. The OP has stayed the same. My complaint has always been about the "follow-up" trailers and that is how the OP has been from the start. It seems you just never read it.

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Postby ThunderTitan » Jun 7 2011, 21:10

No, i said your complaint was unclear...

And saying something is unprofessional and leaving it at that tell others nothing, because there are a lot of way for someone to be unprofessional...
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Postby ChimTheGrim » Jun 8 2011, 20:10

To promote M&M:H6, does it help their cause to look at their audience and say "should we plan this or just do it?" .. "meh, lets just do it."
then yes I would say it was unprofessional and not well planned. Because thats what it looks like they did--and that's not what they did with the debut trailer or the music trailer. Those were planned and nice and easy to watch.

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Postby Mlai » Jun 9 2011, 1:57

I don't see how that "explanatory" dev diary trailer is any different from, say, this "trailer":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oatGPbCSIU

Except that the above dudes are more comfortable and less giddy. Maybe the bald French guy should have had some rehearsals.

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Postby ThunderTitan » Jun 9 2011, 6:08

Mlai wrote:Except that the above dudes are more comfortable and less giddy. Maybe the bald French guy should have had some rehearsals.
And that's what he didn't like, he just sucked at expressing it...
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Postby ChimTheGrim » Jun 9 2011, 15:13

I'm just saying that Blackhole knows their audience is excited to see a new race, why would you reveal it with 2 developers on screen. This isn't E3. Just show the races with a voice over and try to stop doing this ridiculous old-guy on camera routine. You never see the big companies doing that with a reveal trailer because it doesn't get people excited. It just takes the excite meter down to lame unless you happen to be a forum fanboy like me or you, it just doesn't work on the general audience that isn't yet sold.
ThunderTitan wrote:
Mlai wrote:Except that the above dudes are more comfortable and less giddy. Maybe the bald French guy should have had some rehearsals.
And that's what he didn't like, he just sucked at expressing it...
I don't know anything about dark eldar, but the video seems to be a different thing completely--a "round table" not a "reveal" trailer.

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Postby Mlai » Jun 10 2011, 1:46

The reason I feel that the BH dev diary video is more like that W40K round table than a reveal trailer (on a spectrum), is because that BH video communicates much more information than a slick reveal trailer with a movie narrator could.

A reveal trailer with a "movie trailer" narration would be much more pared down. The narrator would proclaim the name of the new race, a sound bite about its history/origin/goals, another sound bite about how it plays, and that would be it. Any more information, and it would not be slick enough. It would also NOT contain any more video than the BH dev diary video.l

The bald French dude kind of rambles excitedly about the race. Sure, it's not slick. But in the process he told you a whole lot more about the game than a movie trailer type of video would.

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Postby ChimTheGrim » Jun 10 2011, 15:23

Mlai wrote:The reason I feel that the BH dev diary video is more like that W40K round table than a reveal trailer (on a spectrum), is because that BH video communicates much more information than a slick reveal trailer with a movie narrator could.

A reveal trailer with a "movie trailer" narration would be much more pared down. The narrator would proclaim the name of the new race, a sound bite about its history/origin/goals, another sound bite about how it plays, and that would be it. Any more information, and it would not be slick enough. It would also NOT contain any more video than the BH dev diary video.l

The bald French dude kind of rambles excitedly about the race. Sure, it's not slick. But in the process he told you a whole lot more about the game than a movie trailer type of video would.
I think you've made some good points that were also mentioned earlier. It is clear that they were making a developer diary, but my complaint was that it was marketed as a race reveal. I haven't been very good at communicating that point thus far, but that was one of the reasons I had a "wtf?" reaction to the video. I think if they're going to make a reveal, they should do that first and then do a developer diary later as a follow up.

But I do disagree with your statement that a developer diary can tell a lot more than a slick trailer can. I think the ambiguity of a trailer is what makes it so entertaining. You are forced to "read between the lines" so to speak, and it's that action that makes it fun.

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Postby Mlai » Jun 11 2011, 1:48

Dude, I hate that crap (teaser videos). IMO that went out of style with the 90's. They want me to pay for something, they damn well better tell me what I'm buying. And I don't have the fanboy patience to play any jigsaw puzzles or Where's Waldos.

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Postby ThunderTitan » Jun 11 2011, 23:03

A dev diary that reveals a new race is a reveal trailer by definition... unless you want to go with the original definition of a trailer, but then only movie trailers shown at the cinema before the main show would qualify.
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Postby ChimTheGrim » Jun 13 2011, 17:54

I'm going to the best of my ability try to find a trailer video (after the debut trailer) and then a developer diary video for modern games.

The point I want to make is:
How these videos are marketed. Not one is called a "reveal trailer" or "____ trailer" and then leads into a developer speaking like a developer diary unless it was called a "developer interview" or "developer diary." Also, none of these videos are misleading as to what it is they are attempting to accomplish.

Here are some example trailers that were released after the initial debut trailers from other big-name games (followed by developer diary):

1) Zelda: Skyward Sword
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKUn5ESdK4s

(no developer diary found)

2) Diablo 3 Monk reveal trailer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aG5gfb7294s

developer trailer/diary (Artisans):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qP7D0BiVfE

3) Uncharted 2 montage trailer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy7egE6CcVs

Developer interview trailer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwMBB2Mf ... re=related

4) CoD Black Ops single player trailer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJerWQhM ... verified=1

Developer diary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCfmQdNLphw


I gave examples to show you that cinematic-style trailers are not just "in the 90s." And no, they aren't difficult like a "jigsaw puzzle." These are all BIG BIG name games and easy to watch trailers/diaries. So why is it that Blackhole does such a poor job marketing their game? Like I said, it is not that difficult to put together a smooth and easy trailer and then follow that up with a developer diary. It's an industry trend and has been for over a decade.


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