What's with all of the female units?

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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Slayer of Cliffracers
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Postby Slayer of Cliffracers » Apr 28 2011, 22:24

Incase anyone's not noticing the models in Heroes whatever are purely symbolic. Therefore they are not supposed to literally depict the appearance creatures they well represent at all. Or their gender for that matter.

Consequently if you are pissed off about female centaurs then what made you think that the earlier male centaurs weren't actually representing an army which contained females anyway?
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Postby ThunderTitan » Apr 29 2011, 11:35

OMG, did Slayer just make a good argument?! The mayans where right, weren't they...


MattII wrote:
ThunderTitan wrote:Only if it has moorish ancestry.
Brown skin and black hair, could be Indian I suppose, or half-African. Regardless, the Archer still looks more 'elfy' than the actual elf.


Do you not know what a Moor is?!

And Israel, Egypt and the Berber people are all form Africa anyway...


MattII wrote:whereas 'boobs' refer to human/humanoid mammaries that stick around all the time.


Yeah, that's why cosmetic surgery is doing so badly, because all our females have very round chests.

Look at female body builders, once there isn't enough fat the chest doesn't look that much different then that of a monkey...
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Postby XEL II » Apr 29 2011, 15:13

Jews are from the Middle East.
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark

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Postby Pol » Apr 29 2011, 19:30

MattII wrote:
Pol wrote:So, for what all that fuss?
Well for me it's the thoughtless way they're sticking boobs on everything.

In normal healthy population about fiftyfive to sixty percent will be women. They have boobs. Live with that.

Maybe you're over sensitive about them?

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Pol wrote:I for one love to play with women.
I would like to hear more about this.

H3, of course.
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Postby Pitsu » Apr 29 2011, 20:09

Pol wrote:In normal healthy population about fiftyfive to sixty percent will be women. They have boobs. Live with that.


The weirdest justification to boobs-enhanced snakes, waves and spirits that i have ever heard.
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Postby Pol » Apr 29 2011, 20:22

@Pitsu
Even if in Aesop's Fables are playing only animals, the meant were only people.
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Postby MattII » Apr 29 2011, 22:15

ThunderTitan wrote:Do you not know what a Moor is?!
Yes, but Moors are from around Morocco, they've got Berber and Arabic Blood in, as well as Black-African.

Yeah, that's why cosmetic surgery is doing so badly, because all our females have very round chests.

Look at female body builders, once there isn't enough fat the chest doesn't look that much different then that of a monkey...
Snakes don't even have nipples, so I don't see where Coral Priestess gets off, and as for the Glories and Spring Spirits...

Pol wrote:In normal healthy population about fiftyfive to sixty percent will be women. They have boobs. Live with that.
And how is that supposed to work with reptiles (Coral Priestess) and even non-biologicals (Spring Spirit, Radiant Glory)?

Maybe you're over sensitive about them?
Probably, the values I was brought up with were a bit more in vogue about 50 years back, things like justice, freedom and public decency. Probably makes me a bit of a puritan by today's standards.

No, for me, boobs work on Sisters and Succubi, and maybe Harpies (though even they didn't always have them, which suggests that modern harpies have a bit of siren in them).

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Postby Slayer of Cliffracers » Apr 30 2011, 18:35

ThunderTitan wrote:Yeah, that's why cosmetic surgery is doing so badly, because all our females have very round chests.

Look at female body builders, once there isn't enough fat the chest doesn't look that much different then that of a monkey...


Most adult women have pretty pronounced breasts thunder. It's just that said breasts tend to be a rather.... odd shape rather than being round. The latter is the standard of beauty but ultimately is not the natural shape of most women's breasts.

Pitsu wrote:The weirdest justification to boobs-enhanced snakes, waves and spirits that i have ever heard.


Obviously the spiritual creatures are in human female form or were human females when they were alive in the case of the ghosts.

The Coral Priestess *is* a Medusa which is half-woman half-snake creature (in mythology she was originally an extremely beautiful woman that inspired the lusts of a god). So no *justification* needed, the creatures have breasts when it makes sense that they would.
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Postby MattII » Apr 30 2011, 21:30

Slayer of Cliffracers wrote:The Coral Priestess *is* a Medusa which is half-woman half-snake creature (in mythology she was originally an extremely beautiful woman that inspired the lusts of a god). So no *justification* needed, the creatures have breasts when it makes sense that they would.
Except that it doesn't have a deadly gaze, so it can't possibly be a Medusa. In any case, a snake-like body isn't mentioned in the original myth, just snake hair.

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Postby Fewtger » Apr 30 2011, 21:49

It has grown to a fantasy-standard.

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Postby Infiltrator » May 1 2011, 1:33

Well, the upgrade ability she has is called "Eyes of the Medusa" so she OBVIOUSLY is a Medusa apart from the small fact that she has living snakes growing out of her head. Oh, and her lower body is also a snake tail.

While the ability does not petrify it does numb/slow or do something in that fashion.

I do have to say I like my Medusas evil ;|
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Postby MMXAlamar » May 1 2011, 3:00

Who doesn't love pvssy?

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Postby MattII » May 1 2011, 4:04

Infiltrator wrote:Well, the upgrade ability she has is called "Eyes of the Medusa" so she OBVIOUSLY is a Medusa apart from the small fact that she has living snakes growing out of her head. Oh, and her lower body is also a snake tail.
The snake hair thing goes along with the myth, but Medusa had a death gaze, not a 'slow them down' gaze.

I do have to say I like my Medusas evil ;|
Evil I'm not sure about, but IMO there's no place for the Medusa in jolly town like this.

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Postby XEL II » May 1 2011, 5:18

MMXAlamar wrote:Who doesn't love pvssy?

Straight women, I guess :)
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark

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Postby Mlai » May 1 2011, 12:31

While the gender doesn't bother me, that POTD does point out a big problem I'm having with HOMM6... the "innovations" on the designs of the creatures.

The foundation of HOMM creatures are that they're a line-up of classic fairy-tale and mythological creatures. A centaur looks like a centaur. A cyclops looks like a cyclops. A sprite looks like a sprite. Etc.

Look at most of those things on that POTD. WTF? WTF are they???

Look at that first one. A floating naked woman with glow-in-the-dark hair and tattoos. WTF is that even supposed to be? It sure ain't a sprite/faery/nymph.

HOMM5 kept in touch with the classical design we're familiar with, while adding a few touches (such as spikes on a cyclops, while still keeping it Harryhausenian). HOMM6 goes too far into the left field with many of its creature designs.

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Postby Slayer of Cliffracers » May 1 2011, 13:53

MattII wrote:Except that it doesn't have a deadly gaze, so it can't possibly be a Medusa. In any case, a snake-like body isn't mentioned in the original myth, just snake hair.


The Heroes IV Medusas have legs, the Heroes III and II Medusas have a snake tail. Thus we can take it that the medusas of Enroth/Axeoth/Ashan are divided into humanoid and snake-like forms but are the same creature regardless.

As for the deadly gaze, it's all in the text.

http://might-and-magic.ubi.com/heroes-6 ... index.aspx

One of the most unique features of the Coral Nagas is the fact their hair is made of living snakes. The snakes are usually asleep and arranged in an elaborate topknot, but a strong and unexpected emotion or danger can wake them up.


Taking that the snakes are a key part of the stone gaze process then the fact that they are barely conscious these days is probably a sign that the Medusas of Ashan are degenerate versions of the Medusas of Axeoth who have lost their stone-gaze power by some kind of curse.

The pearl priestesses have learnt to rekindle their ancient stone gaze but they are not able to turn people into stone but to transfer the very curse that prevents them from turning people into stone to the victims.

Mlai wrote:Look at that first one. A floating naked woman with glow-in-the-dark hair and tattoos. WTF is that even supposed to be? It sure ain't a sprite/faery/nymph.


http://might-and-magic.ubi.com/heroes-6 ... index.aspx

It's supposed to be a Radiant Glory or a Blazing Glory. It's a Light Elemental to all intents and purposes. So it basically are sprite/faery/nymph. A nature spirit representing the element light and the god Elrath.

The floating naked woman with glow-in-the-dark hair and tattoos is merely a disguise for it's true form which if you were you allowed to see it would probably kill you.

Searing Light (Upgrade): A Blazing Glory is said to be a mirror of pure truth that can reveal your soul. Its gaze blinds those who are unwilling to repent from their faults. In the heat of a battle, the Blazing Glory will often force an enemy to look into its purity, causing both pain and blindness. Those who survive the searing light are never quite the same.


A naked woman with funny glowing symbols really sticks out like a sore thumb especially to a battlefield full of male humanoids. Thus when they "allow" you to see their real form your especially dead. So makes sense.
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Postby Mlai » May 1 2011, 15:31

It doesn't refute my original point that H6 is losing touch with the fundamentals of HOMM bestiary: all the creatures are supposed to be classics of fairy tales and mythology, so even a non-gamer can look at one and say "Oh I know what that is."

Too many creatures in H6 you have no clue what it is. This is HOMM I don't want original creatures you dreamed up out of your head, UbiHole.

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Postby Slayer of Cliffracers » May 1 2011, 17:25

Mlai wrote:It doesn't refute my original point that H6 is losing touch with the fundamentals of HOMM bestiary: all the creatures are supposed to be classics of fairy tales and mythology, so even a non-gamer can look at one and say "Oh I know what that is."

Too many creatures in H6 you have no clue what it is. This is HOMM I don't want original creatures you dreamed up out of your head, UbiHole.


Well all those original creatures were dreamed up in someone's head at some point. It says what kind of creatures they are and there are plenty of creatures from mythology in there as well.

I am rather annoyed by the harpy though. The harpy has gone from being half-woman, half-bird to being a bird that looks like a woman.

With no arms, no weapons and no apparant weapons but some puny claws that I'm supposed to believe would harm the likes of the heavy infantry that make up the Haven.

Harpies suck!

As does the whole Necropolis faction as well!

But I am happy to see the end of the bondange gear dark elves though.
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Postby Mlai » May 1 2011, 17:43

Personally I don't understand the hatred on DE. They're ripped off from AD&D and Warhammer, sure. But do you see any other TBS game anywhere that features DE? No.

Therefore, who cares if they're rip-offs? I finally get to use them in a TBS!

I look forward to their return in H6. But with the feminization of HOMM, the H6 Dungeon faction would probably be 100% female.

We'll have a female minotaur with 6 udders. Breast satiation even for UbiHole.

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Postby Slayer of Cliffracers » May 1 2011, 18:28

Mlai wrote:Personally I don't understand the hatred on DE. They're ripped off from AD&D and Warhammer, sure. But do you see any other TBS game anywhere that features DE? No.

Therefore, who cares if they're rip-offs? I finally get to use them in a TBS!

I look forward to their return in H6. But with the feminization of HOMM, the H6 Dungeon faction would probably be 100% female.

We'll have a female minotaur with 6 udders. Breast satiation even for UbiHole.


We hate them because the way they are depicted in the game, I at least have no problem with them being included in the game.

But not as bondage strippers wearing gear that looks utterly impractical for any soldiers on the battlefield. It likes they took the warhammer witch elves and then made them even worse than the warhammer version; they might well wear the chainmail bikini but at least they haven't got HIGH HEELS ON!

Basically speaking if you want to go down the bondage stripper route for your girl dark elves; warhammer *is* the limit. You do not ever go beyond warhammer in that direction and that what ubisoft have done.

But given the depiction of females in the present game there is plenty of hope for the future if present trends continue. We have no evidence of the various vices of.

1. The chainmail bakini does not feuture, except for the upgraded centaur. Succabi don't count. The centaur's 'breastplates' do look rather like the best it's wearing, so maybe it's meant as silver jewelry not metal armour.

2. Supersized breasts. All the female creatures have breasts of a realistic size given their general muscalature and build. Same goes for other secondary sexual characteristics.

3. Seductive clothing. All the creatures are either naked or wearing clothing that leaves at least the regions that are supposed to be covered up by said clothing to the imagination.

When/if they add the dark elves in an expansion pack I would advise them to avoid these three vices because it's their use that makes me hate the dark elves. It's one thing to fight wearing little clothing or even be entirely naked but another thing to go to battle trying to be sexy at the expense of functionality (eg high heels, chainmail bikinis).

Another thing that has to be avoided is the 'stripper matriarchy'. Generally speaking relative nudity is a sign of low status while high status is shown by wearing more clothing. Even the Heroes V dark elves appear know this, that's why the Blood Fury is much more modestly, you can see quite well that the Blood Maiden isn't wearing any underwear behind that beak thing.

Thus in a society where women are in charge or equal to men (it is actually unclear which is the case in Heroes V) then if men cover themselves up then so will the women to an equal or greater degree.
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