If this game is slow as Heroes V it will simple fail....

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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If this game is slow as Heroes V it will simple fail....

Postby Aerosoldier » Jan 30 2011, 3:37

The speed of the gameplay is the most important thing, if the game is slow as Heroes V it will be a pain in the ass to finish any map, Heroes is a very slow game as it is so i think the speed will make or break the game, i just want to be as fast as Heroes III.
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Postby Kalah » Jan 30 2011, 12:34

That is one of the issues which will need to be addressed, yes. I can accept longer AI times when the AI does something in your line of sight, or when the map is very large, but the times used in H5 was just ridiculous - and the main reason why I stopped playing it.
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Postby Kranyum » Jan 30 2011, 13:29

if the AI takes more than 20 seconds per turn to play, or if it just stays and turtles in his town like in H4 or H5 this game is doomed.

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Postby Mirez » Jan 30 2011, 16:31

This is quite the exaggeration, what do you mean it will fail?
The sales of heroes 5 and expansions were quite a succes.
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Postby Tress » Jan 30 2011, 16:52

Agree, that was one of main things that repulsed me from homm5.
You cant enoy game if after each turn there is 40 sec pause. It was one of main good things in homm3 that game pace was fast.

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Postby Pol » Jan 30 2011, 17:01

tress wrote:Agree, that was one of main things that repulsed me from homm5.
You cant enoy game if after each turn there is 40 sec pause. It was one of main good things in homm3 that game pace was fast.

Like for whom, I would like it faster!
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Postby Kranyum » Jan 30 2011, 18:56

I guess we can all agree that H3 had the best AI in the series and I think that's part of its success. The H3 AI even if it cheated it felt like a map presence. Multi sided attacks, regrouping of army and all felt like you had a real oponent, not just someone to give you a final battle in a town after endless end-turns.

This is where H4 and H5 failed and it really killed the replayability of the game. Because let's face it, playing 8 hour long multiplayer games was not that often that it happened. If they manage to get out an AI that is comparable to H3 one, the game will have some potential...

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Postby Pitsu » Jan 30 2011, 19:14

I'd say it is not only the AI. If a player requires lot of micromanagment then player turns may come very long for multiplayer. Simulataneos turns or a functional ghost mode could help some, but still. Even with no AI present there is a huge difference between H2 and H5 multiplay duration (not much experience with H3 in MP).
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Postby Kranyum » Jan 30 2011, 19:45

What I meants was that I its current incarnation Heroes is more of a Single Player game that multiplayer. Such long 1v1 games make it very unpractical to do much multiplayer, which means that for the game to be strong it needs a solid single-player challenge and replayability, which is where a good AI fits in.

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Postby TheUndeadKing » Jan 31 2011, 12:40

"Replayability" is subjective. I find Civilization II more replayable than Civilization IV, despite Civilization IV having more advanced gameplay elements and a clearly superior AI. It's the same with H4; I probably played it more than H3, and you know what, it made the gameplay of H3 somewhat repetitive for me. But I do agree and admit that H3's AI and AI turn times were excellent and I do expect something similar in future HoMM games.
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Postby Kranyum » Jan 31 2011, 12:45

TheUndeadKing wrote:"Replayability" is subjective. I find Civilization II more replayable than Civilization IV, despite Civilization IV having more advanced gameplay elements and a clearly superior AI. It's the same with H4; I probably played it more than H3, and you know what, it made the gameplay of H3 somewhat repetitive for me. But I do agree and admit that H3's AI and AI turn times were excellent and I do expect something similar in future HoMM games.


There are other reasons for re-playability. And I agree that Heroes 4 was pretty awesome, however it lacked the end-game challenge of a good AI. Heroes 3 AI was challenging, it moved on the map, it attacked while not being completely ridiculous like the H5 one (hello fully upgraded alignment in week3 banging on my town's door, and then turle for 10 weeks in his town)

Imagine Heroes 4 played with an AI as challenging as the H3 one. Heck, if someone manages this I would buy it instead of Heroes 6, graphics, new units and lore aside. A strategy game should be about strategy in the first place and other stuff second.

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Postby TheUndeadKing » Jan 31 2011, 12:58

Kranyum wrote:Imagine Heroes 4 played with an AI as challenging as the H3 one. Heck, if someone manages this I would buy it instead of Heroes 6, graphics, new units and lore aside.

Yeah, that would have been pretty awesome indeed. ;)
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Postby klaymen » Jan 31 2011, 14:11

Kranyum wrote:Imagine Heroes 4 played with an AI as challenging as the H3 one. Heck, if someone manages this I would buy it instead of Heroes 6, graphics, new units and lore aside. A strategy game should be about strategy in the first place and other stuff second.


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Postby Variol » Jan 31 2011, 22:58

It's funny when I play H3 on my new PC now. The AI turn is faster than i can blink. :D

But I can not play the large 2 or 3 largest maps on H5, because it takes the AI too long. There often seems to be 1 AI Hero which messes everything up later in the game, by really slowing things down. This did happen in H3 as well.

Times change, but it always seems the software, is too poorly written for the hard available at the time.

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Postby Aerosoldier » Feb 1 2011, 16:50

Mirez wrote:This is quite the exaggeration, what do you mean it will fail?
The sales of heroes 5 and expansions were quite a succes.



yeah was a succes, but probably most the guys who bought the game like me just finished the main campaign once and few maps and no more, it didn't had the hugue replayability of HIII, in HIII you could bring some friends and play it all the night and finish a extra large map, in HV you can't finish a normal map...
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Postby ThunderTitan » Feb 2 2011, 7:29

Mirez wrote:This is quite the exaggeration, what do you mean it will fail?
The sales of heroes 5 and expansions were quite a success.


Weren't they about the same as the ones for H4?!
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Postby Calmisto » Feb 4 2011, 8:56

Long AI turns in H5: check
Slow mapscrolling H5: check
A relatively small map screen H5: check
Graphics you have to get around to see everyting on the map H5: check
Hero rieds the pace of a snail (my laptop) even on fastest hero speed H5: check
Have to go to a separate unit buying screen in town H5: check
Jarring long cutscenes H5: check

All these things should be faster in H6 imho and on top of that we probably not only want the mechanics of the game to be fast but we want to access information and hero actions quickly and directly.

(I've also found H4 more enjoyable when I learned some of the central hotkeyes.)

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Postby Kranyum » Feb 4 2011, 9:38

Calmisto wrote:Long AI turns in H5: check
Slow mapscrolling H5: check
A relatively small map screen H5: check
Graphics you have to get around to see everyting on the map H5: check
Hero rieds the pace of a snail (my laptop) even on fastest hero speed H5: check
Have to go to a separate unit buying screen in town H5: check
Jarring long cutscenes H5: check

All these things should be faster in H6 imho and on top of that we probably not only want the mechanics of the game to be fast but we want to access information and hero actions quickly and directly.

(I've also found H4 more enjoyable when I learned some of the central hotkeyes.)


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Postby ThunderTitan » Feb 6 2011, 1:53

If they haven't listened so far they probably won't start now (those complaints have been around since forever).
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Postby MattII » Feb 6 2011, 6:39

Calmisto wrote:Have to go to a separate unit buying screen in town H5: check
Didn't you have to do this in H3?


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