Who else hates the Inferno?

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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furret
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Postby furret » Nov 28 2010, 21:58

As much as I would like to see new fractions in the Homm universe, the new Homm6 infernos rocks my roof and they distinguished very much apart of the previous infernos - 4 new creatures and no devil. They also have something wild and savage about them that wasn't until now, like wild beasts. Maybe it's because there is no devil between them to look like a leader. I think it's cool.

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Postby Nelgirith » Nov 29 2010, 12:06

Metathron wrote:I couldn't agree more. It's so tacky, come on developers/artists, show some subtlety.

Subtetly ? Like the "oh so great and shiny" Haven ? I rather see 10 Inferno-like factions than a single Haven-like boring setup

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Postby Thelonious » Nov 29 2010, 13:21

I'd like to see all original factions rather than 10 demon factions, but it seems we're both not getting what we want 'eh?

anyways they sorta ruined inferno when they became demonic instead of kreegan. Then they were just aliens with demon looks ;)

I just don't know what to expect from inferno this time. It looks like there'll be all sorts of the same units (save the Breeder); tanks and fast hit 'n' runners. But I could be wrong. I'll just wait and see what they hold in store.
Grah!

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Postby Panda Tar » Nov 30 2010, 14:28

I think they lack the "tricky" and "wicked" nature. For example, having the succubus like a really beautiful woman (not a monster, actually), who would only reveal her true self when attacking. Given that they had thrown so many female-based units, those units wouldn't be affected by a supposed 'lust aura'.

I really agree the inferno units are very alike, yes. I just hope that their role in battle can make them a bit apart from each other.

P.S.: I had forgotten how HORRIBLE was that Devil from Heroes IV, with that forked hand...we all agree that all units had a poor design, but some units had a particular dreadful finishing touch that could easily give us goosebumps, like medusas (and their portraits).
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Postby TheUndeadKing » Nov 30 2010, 19:54

Panda Tar wrote:P.S.: I had forgotten how HORRIBLE was that Devil from Heroes IV, with that forked hand...

The forked hand looks ugly, I agree, but overall (other than the hand) it looks great - much better and more creative than anything in H5/H6. (It also has a cool portrait, too.)
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Postby Panda Tar » Nov 30 2010, 19:58

Yup, the portrait was a bit better. :D
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Postby Thelonious » Dec 2 2010, 10:24

But I think the seperation of necropolis and demons is a good thing. The whole concept was wrong.

Either way; the main things about inferno is how will they play and how will they fit in the story. The looks aren't everything; but yet another 'o there are evil demons invading this world with lots of creatures who can hit hard but are also easily decimated' thing is really done by now...
Grah!

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Postby TheUndeadKing » Dec 2 2010, 15:06

Thelonious wrote:But I think the seperation of necropolis and demons is a good thing. The whole concept was wrong.

I know, and I (or noone else) never suggested uniting them.
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Postby Thelonious » Dec 2 2010, 15:44

TheUndeadKing wrote:I know, and I (or noone else) never suggested uniting them.


I know you know and everyone else knows and no-one suggested this yet I like to state facts. It's my hobby :proud:

Yet perhaps it's good to explain a little on this statement. The units in HoMM IV were good; perhaps not the best units; but they were decent. If they would have had a seperate faction in HoMM IV this might not have worked out that well.

The story of the HoMM IV demons was really sound and the Necropolis (or rather Gauldoth) story was certainly many times more immersive than that of HoMM V. Looking at HoMM III - the units were somewhat diverse, the story was also quite boring involving several invasions and building a sword to destroy the whole world etc.

When one combines the great storyline and the diverse units one gets a great faction to play with. When you look at the demons from HoMM VI which have a problem of having no originality in the story line, the thing they need to do is having very diverse and interesting units.

So... Demons are a difficult faction to work with. They are prone to have the same story which usually forces them into an unoriginal tactical play. And that's why they are disliked or hated so much. Or at least. That's my theory.
Grah!

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Postby TheUndeadKing » Dec 2 2010, 16:17

Some good observations there. :) It's indeed hard to pull off a good demon faction, but it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility. I think it also has to do with style (even more so) than story. Demon factions are pretty much bound to have a clichéd story as far as "evilness" is concerned, but look at Disciples 2; the demon faction looks fantastic and plays interestingly enough. I'm not asking them to copy it exactly, but it should inspire them to make something "different".
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Postby Zenofex » Dec 2 2010, 18:50

Looking at HoMM III - the units were somewhat diverse, the story was also quite boring involving several invasions and building a sword to destroy the whole world etc.

Armageddon's Blade story was rushed and put together only to fill the shoes of the short-lived Forge anyway, I suppose the writers themselves were disappointed enough that they have to substitute something interesting - a symbiosis between sci-fi and fantasy which is the core of M&M - with something much more generic and ultimately decided not to bother too much. On the other hand, emphasizing the high-tech nature of the Kreegans in a HoMM game could have been just as disastrous as the introduction of the Forge - many people would complain that "this is not right" or whatever.

So... Demons are a difficult faction to work with. They are prone to have the same story which usually forces them into an unoriginal tactical play.

It's an imagination thing I think. Sticking to the stereotypes without coming up with anything original is normally inherent to people with little to no imagination, like those who came up with the HoMM V story and the Ashan design in general. The demons can be interesting and it only takes the abandonment of this shallow and moronic concept of beings which want to destroy or at least corrupt the world no matter what. Normally their action aren't even explained, they are just haters and want everything destroyed. No complex ideology, no philosophy, no sophisticated characters which the player can at least be interested in, no nothing. Just some bad guys who have to be and are always defeated.
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Postby Thelonious » Dec 5 2010, 22:59

Certainly true.

Yet with the necro's they were/are able to implement some sort of background/twist as to their nature. Demons have less of this sort of 'escapes' though one could have made the Ubi demons more immersive by implementing the background of Urgash more into their drives to escape the prison.
Grah!

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Kaxeon
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Postby Kaxeon » Dec 25 2010, 10:34

Inferno is the best town. Period.

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Postby Slayer of Cliffracers » Dec 25 2010, 13:58

Zenofex wrote:It's an imagination thing I think. Sticking to the stereotypes without coming up with anything original is normally inherent to people with little to no imagination, like those who came up with the HoMM V story and the Ashan design in general. The demons can be interesting and it only takes the abandonment of this shallow and moronic concept of beings which want to destroy or at least corrupt the world no matter what. Normally their action aren't even explained, they are just haters and want everything destroyed. No complex ideology, no philosophy, no sophisticated characters which the player can at least be interested in, no nothing. Just some bad guys who have to be and are always defeated.


No, demons have to be beings who aim to destroy and corrupt the world otherwise they aren't properly demonic. :) :) :) If you make your demons to be merely hostile aliens from another planet you are danger of reducing the story to just an Aesop of Outgrown such silly superstitions at the expense of the natives. There is not much worse in fantasy than something that is called something but isn't.

The problem with Heroes demons is that a demon has to remain at least somewhat in the shadows and work through beings that are somewhat more comprehensible than the demons themselves.
To form pure demon armies and set out to conquer the world by force of arms causes problems, because they then become 'crude and blunt' which subtracts from apparent evilness. Also having any situation where they are actually at the service of other beings (like in Heroes IV) also causes problems unless it's all part of a cunning plan.

It ultimately a storyline problem; the only attempt to solve this problem was Biara; who is perhaps the only really properly demonic being in the whole Heroes series; in the sense she usually tries to obtain her objectives by infiltration and deception rather than by brute force.

But the nature of a strategy game (as opposed to a RPG) does cause problems for the depiction of demons inherently.
Working on tracking the locations of Heroes IV battles. Stage 6 of campaign map finished, all initial Heroes IV campaigns mapped.

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Postby Zenofex » Dec 25 2010, 14:02

Yeah, whatever. :|
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Postby ThunderTitan » Dec 25 2010, 15:57

Haters gonna hate... slayers gonna troll.
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Postby Mirez » Dec 25 2010, 16:10

Wait I thought slayers slay trolls?
treants are dendrosexual 0_o

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Postby ThunderTitan » Dec 25 2010, 20:26

Only if the trolls where racing on cliffs.
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Postby Slayer of Cliffracers » Dec 25 2010, 23:25

ThunderTitan wrote:Haters gonna hate... slayers gonna troll.


I'm sorry but I was merely stated my opinion on what makes a 'good' fantasy demon and what does not. I wasn't looking for a fight.
Working on tracking the locations of Heroes IV battles. Stage 6 of campaign map finished, all initial Heroes IV campaigns mapped.



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Postby MattII » Dec 26 2010, 3:32

Well could you at least put in IMO a few times, cause that big post sounded pretty confrontational.


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