Lets talk about War Machines

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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ThunderTitan
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Postby ThunderTitan » Sep 20 2010, 12:09

Well they obviously should be fairly limited in what they can do at the start... that's why i mentioned upgrading them in some way (be it through skill or resources).
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Postby ecsunotos » Sep 21 2010, 8:47

MattII wrote:Problem is, neither of those work well if the place has a moat.
Is there any war machine to "handle" the moat ? Maybe some kind of horizontal ladder or some thing ?

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Postby MattII » Sep 21 2010, 9:14

ecsunotos wrote:Is there any war machine to "handle" the moat ? Maybe some kind of horizontal ladder or some thing ?
They used to roll a covered cart (a battering ram without the 'ram' bit) up to the moat, and slowly fill it in while staying under cover. I don't know how that would port over into MM:H though.

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Postby Zenofex » Sep 21 2010, 9:22

The very purpose of the moat is to render the entire siege equipment, except the artillery (catapults, trebuchets, ballistas and so on) and in certain cases - the battering rams - almost useless. You can improvise with what you have depending on the circumstances, but normally a well-constructed castle with a moat means a long siege aiming at the surrender of the besieged.

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Postby ecsunotos » Sep 21 2010, 9:29

Battering ram functions is to break down the castle door. Almost nothing to do with the moat.

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Postby ThunderTitan » Sep 22 2010, 16:18

ecsunotos wrote:Battering ram functions is to break down the castle door. Almost nothing to do with the moat.
No draw-bridges here you're from?!
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Postby Soronarr » Sep 23 2010, 13:49

Healing Tents are USELESS. As is healing in general. The only time when it's has it's use is early game.

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Postby Tress » Sep 23 2010, 13:53

Healing Tents are USELESS. As is healing in general. The only time when it's has it's use is early game.
It's matter of scaling. If they would be for advanced hero on par with resurrection spell(and there is no reason not to, since it takes just as much skill slots) and could dispe for examplel it would be quite different deal, even if for balance purpose they would limit charges it can cast in single combat.

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Postby Nelgirith » Sep 23 2010, 16:22

Soronarr wrote:Healing Tents are USELESS. As is healing in general. The only time when it's has it's use is early game.
Seeing that Haven is going to heavily rely on healing, I bet that aspect is going to get some love ;)

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Postby ThunderTitan » Sep 23 2010, 18:31

Soronarr wrote:Healing Tents are USELESS. As is healing in general. The only time when it's has it's use is early game.
Ballistas where the same in most Heroes games too... which is why they should be improved along with the tents.
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Postby Soronarr » Sep 24 2010, 11:54

Nelgirith wrote:
Soronarr wrote:Healing Tents are USELESS. As is healing in general. The only time when it's has it's use is early game.
Seeing that Haven is going to heavily rely on healing, I bet that aspect is going to get some love ;)
Unless by healing the mean ressurection, then I can't see how that will work.

You have a stack of creatures. The stack being at full HP changes nothing in the long run. The 24'th archangel being at 120HP or at 250HP changes nothing when the enemy does damage in the thousands.

that's why Paladins were also useless inH5. Healing skill..who the hell uses it?

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Postby Tress » Sep 24 2010, 12:34

that's why Paladins were also useless inH5. Healing skill..who the hell uses it?
Quite many, since their heal can dispel as well, and that can be quite useful specifically when things like frenzy and puppet master is spamed around. This way you can dispel enemies spell and cast something offensive instead, while enemy has lost its casting turn.

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Postby Qurqirish Dragon » Sep 24 2010, 14:05

The first aid tent would probably be best as healing x/2x/3x/4x (based on skill level with it) health to each creature in a stack, where x is some fixed number (say 10), and resurrecting creatures with excess healing (basically, they were critically wounded, and so couldn't fight anymore, but weren't actually "dead" yet. Perhaps some maximum effect (cannot raise more than half the killed units, for example) so that it can't raise an entire stack of weak creatures while still being useful for stronger ones. Another possibility would be to reverse that idea, having it heal x%/2x%/3x%/4x% of the health of a stack, with some minimum amount of total healing, so it will be useful for weak stacks as well.
Either way makes it useful at all stages of the game.
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Postby ThunderTitan » Sep 26 2010, 14:07

Qurqirish Dragon wrote: Either way makes it useful at all stages of the game.
And the ballista too.
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Postby Soronarr » Sep 27 2010, 10:18

tress wrote:
that's why Paladins were also useless inH5. Healing skill..who the hell uses it?
Quite many, since their heal can dispel as well, and that can be quite useful specifically when things like frenzy and puppet master is spamed around. This way you can dispel enemies spell and cast something offensive instead, while enemy has lost its casting turn.
Well, it wasn't a pure healing skill in the first place, now was it?

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Postby Roman » Oct 1 2010, 16:52

I agree that War Machines need to be made useful at all stages of the game. There are several ways to achieve this. One possibility is war machine stacking (so a hero could have a stack of say 10 ballistas - maybe they could have a 'build rate' like creatures have a growth rate (e.g. 1 per week or even 1 per month). Other possibilities include war machines doing percentile damage/healing. For example, a ballista could do X damage or Y% of stack hit points damage to a stack, whichever is greater. Tent could do likewise (oh, and unlimited 'shots' for the tent please!), but without resurrecting creatures it would probably still be weak in the late game.

Well, we don't know how war machines will actually function in HoMM 6, but the point remains that they need to be useful at all stages of the game.

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Postby MattII » Oct 1 2010, 19:08

Maybe FATent would be more useful if they provided us with a limit on the number of Hp that could be regenerated, so that if we didn't use all of the points on the first stack we could spend the remainder on a second stack, and if we had any left over, they could go on a third etc. Giving it Dispel would also be a nice addition.

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Postby Roman » Oct 1 2010, 20:23

Yeah, Dispel (of harmful effects) is a pretty good idea. Or alternatively, it could provide buffs. For example, instead of resurrecting slain units, it could provide a temporary hit point boost/buff to all units in a stack (e.g. +2 temporary hit points per units / or +5% temporary hit points per unit, representing the fact that all of them are in tip-top shape health-wise). A flat temporary hit point buffer might also work, but I think it would scale better if it was per unit in the stack.

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Postby ThunderTitan » Oct 2 2010, 20:41

Hmmm.... Maybe the warmachines could even have XP... or each hero could have his own WM XP tree, where he would gain XP but just in battles where the WM in question is present.
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Postby Roman » Oct 2 2010, 21:57

You mean that it would sort of function like a second hero? In theory it could work, but it might be going a bit too far.


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