More official info (10 Sept)

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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More official info (10 Sept)

Postby arturchix » Sep 10 2010, 14:24

From the M&M page at Facebook, by Xhane. Not much new info but still something.

Hello!

The demo gameplay videos brought up lots of questions from you guys. Here are some first answers to your different questions.

What about the area of control?

There are still mines on the adventure map. You still have to flag them in order to gain resources. The new stuff is now all mines are in the "area of control" of a city or fort. Once you own the fort/city of an area and flagg the mines, the only way to take the mines from you is to capture the city/fort that controls the area.

Will there be any town screen?

YES, totally. In the demo shown in Köln, they used a temporary screen. The final one is said to be in 2D, more like H3 and H4 and not as complex as the H5 ones. Erwan Le Breton, the game producer, said it himself

Erwan Le Breton: "There will be 2D animated town screen in the release version of the game"

What is the new mechanics for creature production?

Creature dwellings will work as resource production buildings. Basically, when you first capture a creature dwelling you will receive a first batch of creatures that you can integrate straight away to your army. The building will then work as a resource building meaning that it will add creatures to your creature pool every week as a gold mine would add gold to your resources. These creatures will then be hirable via the cities and forts you control. So there is no need for caravans.

What are the Town unique buildings?

2 slots, 4 buildings per town, each with a different ability (economy booster, creature production booster, gives a special ability on the adventure map or the combat maps) Having several similar unique buildings in different towns improves their efficiency (a bit like the marketplaces).

What are the general principles of the revised RPG system?

- Heroes can be male, female, Might, Magic - Heroes have faction and class specific abilities - Heroes gain skill points when they level up, that they can spend consciously on “general” abilities organized in skill categories – they have total control over their development – no more “probability-based” limited skill choices offered to the player - Heroes can unlock advanced classes that will change their appearance and grant them an ultimate ability


What will bring more variety in the combat arenas?


- Specific topography (various sizes and shapes for the battle arenas) - Dynamic topography (seashore battle with the tide flooding the arena turn by turn) - Different combat objectives (hold your ground for X turns, defend this sacred shrine at the center of the arena, kill a specific enemy stack, etc.) - Boss fights!

How about the Initiative system?

Back to H3 mechanics but with a H5-like INI bar interface.

What is the new Creature Tier System?

Core, Elite, Champion (like Clash of Heroes)

What about Creature Siege Damage?

Creature stacks can now damage the fortifications (but are obviously less efficient than catapults)

What about the fixed camera angle?

On the adventure map, to remove the necessity of rotating the camera to locate hidden items. Easier to manage for players and map designers, feels like 2D navigation but with the benefit of 3D coolness

What about the creatures?

no secondary / alternative upgrades Obvious in the concept arts.

What about the Artifact Sets?

Nothing special – you collect them all and you get a bonus.

What about the different tile sets?

Jungle, Plains (Summer AND Autumn), Lava, Wasteland (Necropolis), Underground

What about the presence of critters on the adv map?

You’ll find turtles, dolphins, birds, etc.

What is the Campaign structure?

5 campaigns of 4 maps, 1 per faction, playable in any order, with an optional tutorial map and a mandatory prologue map.

What about the Map editor?

Marzhin is REALLY involved and there is a goal to make it user-friendly at the latest to be shipped with the game, but if possible and the quality is good enough it will be released BEFORE the game.

See you soon!
Xhane

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Postby Avonu » Sep 10 2010, 14:30

Isn't it just copy of what some of you "insider" guys said here and in HC before but only gathered in one place and posted on Ubisoft's site? :P

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Postby MistWeaver » Sep 10 2010, 14:32

>>Jungle, Plains (Summer AND Autumn), Lava, Wasteland (Necropolis), Underground


No snow :sad:

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Postby Tress » Sep 10 2010, 14:40

no more “probability-based” limited skill choices offered to the player
Bit tales heroes feel away, but its about time. Makes necessity to balance available skill more actual. In homm5 and specially 3 you had to live with what you get.


What about the fixed camera angle?

While it sounds less technically advanced I think its good change. Dynamic camera often slows down game play.
5 campaigns of 4 maps, 1 per faction, playable in any order, with an optional tutorial map and a mandatory prologue map.


Sound bit odd from story telling perspective to not have chronological campaigns, then again games like avp2 managed to make it work real good.
Dynamic topography (seashore battle with the tide flooding the arena turn by turn)
Imo quite unsuitable for strategy game, unless they use it only for specific encounters with preset enemies.

Jungle, Plains (Summer AND Autumn), Lava, Wasteland (Necropolis), Underground


No snow and desert. Latter is classic Homm and kb idiom for travel time wasting.

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Postby MistWeaver » Sep 10 2010, 15:09

No snow and desert. Latter is classic Homm and kb idiom for travel time wasting.

Exactly. And snow is just neat

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Re: More official info

Postby Kalah » Sep 10 2010, 15:33

Xhane wrote:The final (town screen) is said to be in 2D, more like H3 and H4 and not as complex as the H5 ones.


Excellent. The dynamics and 3D imagery of the H5 town screen was completely unnecessary, and very CPU demanding. The earlier games had basic and illustrative, yet fairly aesthetic, town screen, and I never saw the point of making that particular area of the game exceedingly "pretty".

Xhane wrote:What are the Town unique buildings?

2 slots, 4 buildings per town, each with a different ability (economy booster, creature production booster, gives a special ability on the adventure map or the combat maps). Having several similar unique buildings in different towns improves their efficiency (a bit like the marketplaces).


:| Oh ... kay. I think I get it. And I think it could work fairly well. After all, the town layout of H5 was never a huge problem (I actually found it quite innovative). Actually, it all sounds a bit like back-to-H3 to me ... am I right? :dontknow:

Xhane wrote:What about the Artifact Sets?

Nothing special – you collect them all and you get a bonus.


Xhane wrote:What about the Map editor?

Marzhin is REALLY involved and there is a goal to make it user-friendly at the latest to be shipped with the game ...


Go, Marzhin! Go, Marzhin! :-D

Actually, I'd rather have the editor made well rather than quickly. So ... don't rush it.
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Re: More official info

Postby Kristo » Sep 10 2010, 15:57

arturchix wrote:What is the new mechanics for creature production?

Creature dwellings will work as resource production buildings. Basically, when you first capture a creature dwelling you will receive a first batch of creatures that you can integrate straight away to your army. The building will then work as a resource building meaning that it will add creatures to your creature pool every week as a gold mine would add gold to your resources. These creatures will then be hirable via the cities and forts you control. So there is no need for caravans.

Ah, so here's the key reason why you would convert a town. This changes the logistics problem considerably. A frontier town of the correct alignment becomes a lot more valuable now.
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Postby Nelgirith » Sep 10 2010, 16:01

tress wrote:
5 campaigns of 4 maps, 1 per faction, playable in any order, with an optional tutorial map and a mandatory prologue map.


Sound bit odd from story telling perspective to not have chronological campaigns, then again games like avp2 managed to make it work real good.

The 5 campaigns are supposed to happen at the same time and are intertwined (a bit like what we could see in the HoF campaigns). Erwan said that through each campaign, we'll see each view upon the same event along with secondary plots.

tress wrote:
Dynamic topography (seashore battle with the tide flooding the arena turn by turn)
Imo quite unsuitable for strategy game, unless they use it only for specific encounters with preset enemies.

I don't see the issue. Anything that breaks the monotony and repeatitivity of fights is a great addition. At least there's more than a few mushrooms or a stump to alter the battlefield

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Postby MistWeaver » Sep 10 2010, 16:10

The dynamics and 3D imagery of the H5 town screen was completely unnecessary, and very CPU demanding.


Yeah, because there we needed all CPU power for ... wait what it was ?


I mean, if your CPU can hadle the adventure part - it would easily handle the towns. What's the point of keeping it idle there - saving electricity ? :)

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Postby Blocks100 » Sep 10 2010, 16:46

MistWeaver wrote:?
I mean, if your CPU can hadle the adventure part - it would easily handle the towns. What's the point of keeping it idle there - saving electricity ? :)


The town screen in V drained the CPU so much, there was none left over for the AI on the world map. :D

I really hope they go to town on the topography - I wanna fight battles in mountainous regions were some units are 'holding the high ground'. Imagine successfully fighting off a superior AI force because your units are 'dug-in' and receive a combat bonus because they occupy high ground, increased distances for archers etc.

The combat map should be a much more treacherous place. Inflicting heavy damage on a unit next to a lava pool should result in a small random chance that the unit 'falls back' into it....

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Re: More official info

Postby King Imp » Sep 10 2010, 17:54

arturchix wrote:What about the creatures?

no secondary / alternative upgrades Obvious in the concept arts.



Just to be clear, this just means no second batch of upgrades like we saw in H5's TotE, right? We will still have upgrades of the base units?


Also, is there any info on what happens to creature dwellings after you convert a town? I mean, if I go from Castle to Necropolis, will say an Archer's dwelling be converted as well to whatever the level equivalent is for Necro?

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Re: More official info

Postby Blocks100 » Sep 10 2010, 18:16

King Imp wrote:

Just to be clear, this just means no second batch of upgrades like we saw in H5's TotE, right? We will still have upgrades of the base units?


Yeah, I was worried about that too at first, but yes there will still be upgrades of the the base unit, sure i've seen the concept art for those somewhere.

Also, is there any info on what happens to creature dwellings after you convert a town? I mean, if I go from Castle to Necropolis, will say an Archer's dwelling be converted as well to whatever the level equivalent is for Necro


That's an interesting thought. Logic dictates that if a town is converted, all outlying forts in its area of control would also be transformed. The vid we've seen of the conversion process didn't show this though. And if dwellings are auto-converted, are they included in the conversion fee?

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Postby Tress » Sep 10 2010, 18:21

I don't see the issue. Anything that breaks the monotony and repeatitivity of fights is a great addition. At least there's more than a few mushrooms or a stump to alter the battlefield


Since most fight happens versus AI, I believe it wont be able to effectively be adapted to such terrains. For example KB:legend. There is alot of things placed on battlefield that randomly cast spells on nearby targets, and it is really easy to exploit. In such game it is ok since it's essentially rpg with tactical battles and so pretty much anything goes, but for strategy game i believe it is better to have static terrain.

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Postby Blocks100 » Sep 10 2010, 19:13

So the AI in KB: Legend has issues coping with dynamic battlefield terrain, but that doesn't mean HOMM VI's will, we've yet to see it in action! I have faith in Black Hole's ability to introduce this new feature into the series without it suddenly becoming an 'exploit' that human players can use to punish the AI.

Who knows, maybe even the AI will use it to their tactical advantage, luring inexperienced players into melee near an oncoming tide and somehow gaining the upperhand. Bring on the lava flows and swamp tiles, not just grid combat by the numbers....

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Postby Nelgirith » Sep 10 2010, 19:47

King Imp wrote:Also, is there any info on what happens to creature dwellings after you convert a town? I mean, if I go from Castle to Necropolis, will say an Archer's dwelling be converted as well to whatever the level equivalent is for Necro?

In one of the previews, it was said that we will be able to convert towns, forts and external dwellings (which would mean that each faction will have its own forts with its own bonus hopefully!)

tress wrote:Since most fight happens versus AI, I believe it wont be able to effectively be adapted to such terrains. For example KB:legend. There is alot of things placed on battlefield that randomly cast spells on nearby targets, and it is really easy to exploit. In such game it is ok since it's essentially rpg with tactical battles and so pretty much anything goes, but for strategy game i believe it is better to have static terrain.

Tbh, I don't care about the AI, it will be bad anyways (that way I can only get a good surprise :D). Heroes games are not know for their good AI (Heroes 2 and 3's one was cheating, H4's one was non-existant and H5's one was terrible). The dynamic arenas will be a great feature to make multiplayer more interesting.

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Postby Tress » Sep 10 2010, 19:49

but that doesn't mean HOMM VI's will, we've yet to see it in action!

I doubt they can make ai that can see and effectively analyze importance of position opposed to loses it would take in case of terrain, but anyway lets see what BH makes. Of course it can think to attack weaker shooter rather than tough golems first, but such Ai that would be able to analyze field would be level higher if attainable at all atm. But I believe those concepts will be reviewed before game gets released, after all homm5 also had dynamic battlefield size idea initially, but it didn't make it to release.

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Postby ecsunotos » Sep 11 2010, 5:05

Nelgirith wrote:
King Imp wrote:Also, is there any info on what happens to creature dwellings after you convert a town? I mean, if I go from Castle to Necropolis, will say an Archer's dwelling be converted as well to whatever the level equivalent is for Necro?

In one of the previews, it was said that we will be able to convert towns, forts and external dwellings (which would mean that each faction will have its own forts with its own bonus hopefully!)

tress wrote:Since most fight happens versus AI, I believe it wont be able to effectively be adapted to such terrains. For example KB:legend. There is alot of things placed on battlefield that randomly cast spells on nearby targets, and it is really easy to exploit. In such game it is ok since it's essentially rpg with tactical battles and so pretty much anything goes, but for strategy game i believe it is better to have static terrain.

Tbh, I don't care about the AI, it will be bad anyways (that way I can only get a good surprise :D). Heroes games are not know for their good AI (Heroes 2 and 3's one was cheating, H4's one was non-existant and H5's one was terrible). The dynamic arenas will be a great feature to make multiplayer more interesting.


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Go For Dynamic Arenas !!! :hoo:

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Postby ThunderTitan » Sep 11 2010, 19:09

MistWeaver wrote:>>Jungle, Plains (Summer AND Autumn), Lava, Wasteland (Necropolis), Underground


No snow :sad:


Yeah, what's with the trend to only include the terrain type of the factions that are in the game... both gives away the factions and makes them look lazy...

So, unless the 2 type of plains are for different factions the remaining 2 are Naga's and DElves. (of course the underground would be needed even without a faction if the have 2 adv map levels, so it could be WElves).
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So here is a question that I have not seen anybody ask yet?

Postby Magelord » Sep 14 2010, 21:14

If the Towns no longer have creature dwellings "inside them" and you collect your creatures from dwellings on the map....then what if the Map dwellings are not associated with your particular castle?

In other words when every map is made it is now essential for the map maker to put the corresponding dwellings within your sphere of influence, correct?

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Re: So here is a question that I have not seen anybody ask y

Postby Nelgirith » Sep 14 2010, 22:09

Magelord wrote:If the Towns no longer have creature dwellings "inside them" and you collect your creatures from dwellings on the map....then what if the Map dwellings are not associated with your particular castle?

No idea. My own common sense would say that if a dwelling is not the same as your own castle, it will work as it used to work previously, but you never know :) Good question though.

Magelord wrote:In other words when every map is made it is now essential for the map maker to put the corresponding dwellings within your sphere of influence, correct?

Imo, a good mapmaker already links random dwellings to the correct castle. You have the possibility to link a random dwelling to a castle since H3 :)


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