Is it naga faction ?

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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ecsunotos
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Postby ecsunotos » Sep 14 2010, 16:51

Developer has full right to decide lines up of the factions. They can switch over a unit from a town to another one in the next serie. Even from a good faction to bad one.
They can do that just by giving us a "make a sense" story of the unit as a "reason" why it join a faction and than move to another one or just by remaking unit design so that it fits the new town or any other "tricks". That's a piece of cake.
Even medusa can be fitted to good faction just by changing its story or remaking medusa's design.
For fans, as long as it's "make a sense" and felt okay, then so be it
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Postby Nelgirith » Sep 14 2010, 17:30

ecsunotos wrote:They can do that just by giving us a "make a sense" story of the unit as a "reason" why it join a faction and than move to another one or just by remaking unit design so that it fits the new town or any other "tricks".

Think you're asking way too much from a company that wasn't even able to make us a coherent storyline in H5 :devil:

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Postby ecsunotos » Sep 14 2010, 17:44

Nelgirith wrote:
ecsunotos wrote:They can do that just by giving us a "make a sense" story of the unit as a "reason" why it join a faction and than move to another one or just by remaking unit design so that it fits the new town or any other "tricks".

Think you're asking way too much from a company that wasn't even able to make us a coherent storyline in H5 :devil:


Hope they learn enough from the last HoMM serie to make a good story line this time
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Postby Dragon Angel » Sep 14 2010, 17:48

Slayer of Cliffracers wrote:Heroes III introduced Nagas under the Wizard/Tower faction which was officially classified as Good. Heroes IV sort of dropped the good/evil thing but kept the Nagas as aligned to the wizards in the Order faction.


Ok. That is it, then nagas in Enroth (Erathia) and Axeoth were good, and traditionally they have been good in the series... yet we do not know anything of Ashan's lore about them.

And, even that, as you implied, they will not be the first creature that switches sides: Centaurs are probably the most travelled creature, from evil, to good, to neutral. Gargoiles started with Warlock, too. And griffins!

That said, it is true it is difficult to imagine a "good" medusa, but I picture nagas more in the neutral side (especially if set "free"), and medusas fit as neutral creatures too.

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Postby Nelgirith » Sep 14 2010, 18:00

The fact that they worship Shalassa, the Dragon of Water and deity of wisdom/peace/diplomacy should be enough to classify them as good :)

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Postby Dragon Angel » Sep 14 2010, 18:16

Nelgirith wrote:The fact that they worship Shalassa, the Dragon of Water and deity of wisdom/peace/diplomacy should be enough to classify them as good :)


The sources I have checked set it as mysticism/diplomacy/adaptability. "Peaceful" as quiet and secretive, but also switft and indomitable when decides to act... much more a neutral to me :P

As medusas... I do not se them going out on a war to the world... but killing you asap as you enter (what they have decided is) their territory :P

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Postby ecsunotos » Sep 14 2010, 18:35

Dragon Angel wrote:As medusas... I do not se them going out on a war to the world... but killing you asap as you enter (what they have decided is) their territory :P


sounds like medusa from greek mythology to me... we're talking about medusa in HoMM series... dev can give us brand new medusas different from its origin

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Postby Raelag84 » Sep 15 2010, 1:58

MattII wrote:Um, guys, sticking Garuda in a Naga faction is like sticking a Devil in Haven.


!!!!!! Well, well, well. I thought I was the only heroes fan who did research on the orginal Naga legends. Love it if we could talk later, because I find Naga to be very intresting.


Anyways the Garuda were a sibling race to the Naga, to have a naga faction without involving Garuda somehow would be like having Yin without Yang or Bonnie without Clyde. It just wouldn't be right. Granted I can't for sure what the involvment should be, but there should be something.


By the way the one thing I can say for sure is Medusas do not belong in the faction. Just because Medusas have snake hair doesn't mean they have the same meaning as Naga. There's more to being a Naga (or for that matter a Medusa) than just being a snake you know.

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Postby ThunderTitan » Sep 15 2010, 7:36

Ehhh.... the M&M Naga has never been close to the mythological one... why change it now?!
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Postby Elvin » Sep 15 2010, 11:13

Wouldn't be the first unit to get a lore makeover nor the last. It's a game anyway, fun units are more important than mythological accuracy.
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Postby Nelgirith » Sep 15 2010, 11:47

Elvin wrote:fun units are more important than mythological accuracy.

I rather see them deforming mythology to create their own one, but it seems people are too stubborn and aren't ready for that ;| (just look at the reactions about the blue phoenix)

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Postby Elvin » Sep 15 2010, 12:02

That's because it sucks :tongue: There is different for the better and different for difference's sake. I retain some hope that it will be an interesting unit though.
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Postby Qurqirish Dragon » Sep 15 2010, 12:59

Slayer of Cliffracers wrote:Medusa was also introduced in Heroes III under the Dungeon faction which was officially classified as Evil. They continued under the Chaos faction (the enemy of the Order faction) as aligned with the bandits and minotaurs (and other remnants of Dungeon faction).


Actually, Medusae were introduced as neutrals in Heroes II, so they were originally unaligned (or, technically, aligned with ghosts, genies, elementals, and rogues)
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Postby Raelag84 » Sep 15 2010, 15:02

Elvin wrote:Wouldn't be the first unit to get a lore makeover nor the last. It's a game anyway, fun units are more important than mythological accuracy.


But that's just it. The original Myths are fun! It would really kick butt if we could use a Garuda to rip through ranks of undead and demons. I am not saying you have to carbon copy the old myths, I sure didn't when I made a Naga faction for ICTC, but I did a lot of research to make sure I captured the spirit of the Naga.

To simply dismiss the old lore outright would be unwise because we would be missing out on a lot of the things that could make our games better.

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Postby ThunderTitan » Sep 15 2010, 19:23

Nelgirith wrote:I rather see them deforming mythology to create their own one, but it seems people are too stubborn and aren't ready for that ;| (just look at the reactions about the blue phoenix)


Because making it blue is such a great idea... i for one prefer my Phoenix to run on wood, not methane... hopefully it will at least look like a bird instead of a flying amorphous mass...
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Postby Avonu » Sep 18 2010, 11:49

Slayer of Cliffracers wrote:Medusas have traditionally been evil that is true, hence it is difficult to imagine a good Medusa.

"Voyage of the Unicorn" for example. :P

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Postby admira99 » Sep 21 2010, 2:06

Well there is possibility that this "Naga" is based on oriental (Chinese) myth. With Fu Xi and Nu Wa being half snake. But they are actually the only 2 being, not a group of creature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fu_Xi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%BCwa

But since the name is "Naga" Hindu myth will be more appropriate, including the setting and background, no need to have Garuda just add Jatayu, since Jatayu is also pictured as Gold-Feathered Bird but sometime demi-human with wing (and no hands), similar to Garuda. So you still get the "good" faction without forbidding Mythological Accuracy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jatayu

Maybe you want to have Shiva as well :D while She is not practically ice (which is made of water) element (Referring to Final Fantasy's Shiva version) but She got Trident, Serpents in which may remind us of Poseidon's Trident as Sea God and Serpents as Naga, both are related to water.

Not to mention that Sacred Ganga (river) (also as one of her attributes)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiva#Attributes

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Postby ecsunotos » Sep 21 2010, 8:51

admira99 wrote:Well there is possibility that this "Naga" is based on oriental (Chinese) myth. With Fu Xi and Nu Wa being half snake. But they are actually the only 2 being, not a group of creature.


it doesn't matter. Looks what they've done to medusa in Heroes series. Medusa is a single creature anyway.
But Developer made it to become a group of creature.
As for Titans, I like the back story of them. Creature that are created by wizard. Filled by the spirit of dead Heroes.

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Postby admira99 » Sep 21 2010, 16:01

ecsunotos wrote:
admira99 wrote:Well there is possibility that this "Naga" is based on oriental (Chinese) myth. With Fu Xi and Nu Wa being half snake. But they are actually the only 2 being, not a group of creature.


it doesn't matter. Looks what they've done to medusa in Heroes series. Medusa is a single creature anyway.
But Developer made it to become a group of creature.
As for Titans, I like the back story of them. Creature that are created by wizard. Filled by the spirit of dead Heroes.


Yes, but medusa has other of their kin called Gorgon while Fu Xi and Nu Wa don't have. Anyway this is pointless, they already decided which culture they wished to adopt, the only things left is to hope that it turned out well. Yeah who thought a Hydra and Big bad Moo Moo who adopt the name Gorgon and adopting Aztec style turn out to be interesting faction in Heroes 3?

I guess the "Surprise Me" applied well here.

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Postby Raelag84 » Sep 21 2010, 20:09

admira99 wrote:
Anyway this is pointless, they already decided which culture they wished to adopt, the only things left is to hope that it turned out well.


We don't know that. It could still be that we luck out and there will be no Naga faction in H6. After all it is said in the story description that the resurrected angel is trying to fight the "Faceless" and we have also been told there will be only one new faction. It is still possible that it is the faceless that is that new faction and that Ubisoft chose not to ruin the old Naga legends.

Come to think of it I don't know why we have been concluding the new faction is the Naga given the the clues we have been offered.


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