Is it naga faction ?

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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Postby ThunderTitan » Sep 9 2010, 8:29

Oh, he's the enemy of the Naga... the whole bird-snake thing... didn't know that. Not really that familiar with hindu myth really.

But of course seeing how Rakshasa's aren't demons either in H5, and them and Nagas (and Gorgons) are actually inspired by the D&D versions it would work anyway...

And HOMM factions have always been a hodge-podge of different creatures from all sorts of mythologies, usually taken through D&D. Some indian inspired units would be nice, but it really doesn't matter either way.

Oh, and any Garuda should look something like this:

[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Garuda_Wishnu_Bali.JPG/420px-Garuda_Wishnu_Bali.JPG[/img]
Last edited by ThunderTitan on Sep 9 2010, 8:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Elvin » Sep 9 2010, 8:46

Methinks rakshasas in the ingame description say evil spirits summoned and bound by the wizards.
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Postby ThunderTitan » Sep 9 2010, 8:52

Doesn't it just say spirits?!

Plus, they're lion-headed, which was D&D's doing...

EDIT: Vengeful spirits: http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com/he ... E_RAKSHASA
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Postby MattII » Sep 9 2010, 9:15

ThunderTitan wrote:But of course seeing how Rakshasa's aren't demons either in H5, and them and Nagas (and Gorgons) are actually inspired by the D&D versions it would work anyway...

No, our Naga's look rather more like the D&D Yuan-Ti than their Nagas. Oh and BTW, Rakshasas in D&D are sorcerors, not spirits, so it's still about 50/50.

And HOMM factions have always been a hodge-podge of different creatures from all sorts of mythologies, usually taken through D&D. Some indian inspired units would be nice, but it really doesn't matter either way.

Well, regardless of how mixed up some other factions are, I still don't think a Garuda would fit with the Naga, any more than a demon would fit with Haven.

Oh, and to add a bit of uniqueness, I'd like to see the Naga get some decidedly Indian weapons (the Urumi and Chakram for instance).

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Postby Blocks100 » Sep 9 2010, 12:13

As intriguing an idea as a new Naga faction is, Ubisoft are rather set in their ways in relation to factions. I think we'll see a continuation from Clash of Heroes, with Wizards and Sylvans being the remaining factions. If they were to ditch the Elves to make room for a new faction, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it....

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Postby ThunderTitan » Sep 9 2010, 14:26

They expressly said that one of the factions is new... so unless the Sylvan faction is now inhabited by dwarves or the Wizard one by spell-casting Troglodytes (dark elves in dungeon being a new faction too according to them) it has to be either the Water or Air factions... so either Naga's or Humans.


MattII wrote:No, our Naga's look rather more like the D&D Yuan-Ti than their Nagas. Oh and BTW, Rakshasas in D&D are sorcerors, not spirits, so it's still about 50/50.


Actually the Naga's in Heroes are modelled after Mariliths...

MattII wrote:Well, regardless of how mixed up some other factions are, I still don't think a Garuda would fit with the Naga, any more than a demon would fit with Haven.


True...


Oh, and to add a bit of uniqueness, I'd like to see the Naga get some decidedly Indian weapons (the Urumi and Chakram for instance).


Good idea, but seeing how the concept art made then japanese/chinese i doubt we'll see anything like that unfortunately.
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Postby Dragon Angel » Sep 9 2010, 20:47

Darkström wrote:What about...

Core:
Lizardman
Naga warrior
Dragon fly

Elite:
Naga witch
Medusa
Basilisk

Champion:
Sea serpent (let's call it Leviathan)


I take it with two minor changes

Basilisk and Naga Warrior (unretaliated, 4-sword mincer) switch places

Sea serpent keeps serpent shape, but is called Sea Dragon (just for the sake of having a dragon more) :P

And, just to add, I really feel the medusae and lizardmen should be back with the nagas if these came as a full faction.

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Postby Mirez » Sep 10 2010, 13:28

I don't really find medusa fitting with a naga faction to be honest. A while ago before the ToTE expansion there was a make-a-town competition going on. The winner had quite a nice concept of the naga faction. Let's see if I can dig it up.
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Postby MattII » Sep 10 2010, 16:22

Mirez wrote:I don't really find medusa fitting with a naga faction to be honest.

Neither do I, unless the Medusa turns out to be an evil/cursed/deformed form of the Naga (kinda like the light/dark elf thing, but with some basis in biology rather than just ideology).

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Postby ecsunotos » Sep 11 2010, 4:51

MattII wrote:
Mirez wrote:I don't really find medusa fitting with a naga faction to be honest.

Neither do I, unless the Medusa turns out to be an evil/cursed/deformed form of the Naga (kinda like the light/dark elf thing, but with some basis in biology rather than just ideology).


Yup, a creature need not to be exactly the same or 100 % copy pasted from a myth, but it can be deformed from any mythological creature into HoMM atmosphere.
Just look at what they've done to Titans, Minotours, Cyclopses, etc.

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Postby Nelgirith » Sep 11 2010, 7:52

The only issue I see is that Nagas in Ashan are supposed to be peaceful and good-aligned while Medusas (Medusae ?) aren't. They could fit in as a twisted version of Nagas and as a neutral creature though.

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Postby MattII » Sep 11 2010, 8:08

Yes, I know, I posted that idea already.

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Postby Blocks100 » Sep 11 2010, 12:56

Nelgirith wrote:The only issue I see is that Nagas in Ashan are supposed to be peaceful and good-aligned .


I'm sure they'll find a way around the 'lore' to make them an all-conquering . all-powerful lizard master race though....

But I just can't see enough variation within the Naga design to make a whole town out of them. Sure, you can include Lizard men and Medusa's to bolster the ranks, but you may as well have a proper Bestial Race if you're going down that route. Bring in the Gnolls and the Minotaurs and let them have their own town....

Besides, I want the Orcs back. All together now, Orcs!, Orcs!!, Orcs!!!

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Postby Slayer of Cliffracers » Sep 11 2010, 15:05

Nelgirith wrote:The only issue I see is that Nagas in Ashan are supposed to be peaceful and good-aligned while Medusas (Medusae ?) aren't. They could fit in as a twisted version of Nagas and as a neutral creature though.


What makes you think that Heroes IV creatures are unchanging in their alignment over great periods of historical time (such as between Heroes IV and Heroes V)?

After whatever event separated the nagas from the wizards and whatever event destroyed the chaos faction of Heroes IV, it is entirely possible that Nagas and Medusas could end up allied together.

I would just be happy to see Medusas back in the game.
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Postby Mirez » Sep 11 2010, 15:07

well, you can basically copy-paste the h3 lineup and replace hydra with a water dragon.

Although I never really found gnolls fitting in the jungle
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Postby MattII » Sep 11 2010, 16:51

Mirez wrote:Although I never really found gnolls fitting in the jungle

Neither did I, always seemed like they'd make a good Roughlands (H3 terrain for Stronghold) dwelling neutral.

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Postby ecsunotos » Sep 13 2010, 13:57

According to Wikipedia:

In the Dungeons & Dragons fantasy role-playing game, gnolls greatly resemble humanoid hyenas[2]. They are usually between seven and eight feet tall, weighing around 250 to 320 pounds,[3] and use armor made of horn, metal, or leather[2]. Gnolls are generally depicted in the game world as feral nomads who kill and pillage without warning[4]. Their whole bodies are covered in reddish-brown fur which becomes shorter as it surrounds their faces and clawed hands to reveal grey colored skin. Their pelts vary from mono-colored to spotted and their eyes are either yellow or black

Yup...as long as Gnoll used to be hyena, I think they are should be from roughland ( Barbarian )

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Postby Darkström » Sep 13 2010, 14:17

I don't like these D&D rip-offs.

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Postby Dragon Angel » Sep 13 2010, 22:53

Nelgirith wrote:The only issue I see is that Nagas in Ashan are supposed to be peaceful and good-aligned while Medusas (Medusae ?) aren't. They could fit in as a twisted version of Nagas and as a neutral creature though.


I guess I lost some part of the Lore. ¿Were is it established Nagas should be good?. As far as I see, all races in Ashan (even humans and, to an extent, light elves) are in gray zones... religious fanatics and vengeful xenofobs at some point, respectively, at least...

I see the Nagas and the Water Dragon at the core of a reptiloid race (and Ashan's races are more based in "kin" than other games). Medusas fit in it as twisted sorcerers, or as abnormal members of the race that - nevertheless - have useful habilities for battle... Of course, medusas may not be the nicest gals you can find around the race... and a four-bladed serpent warrior can be a more reliefing and ellegant sight, but equally deadly.

On the other hand, I would add gnolls as one of the main members of an alternative "furry" outcast race to occupy dry wastelands (cracked terrain -no wet dog anymore). For variety I would try to add wereX to the mix. A provisional lineup might include wererat burglars (non-retal bandits for Heroes II), boars (also H2) and werewolves and behemoths as the top units. Race flavour should be no-law far-west - style, and the hero skills might revolve around trickery and survival. But that is just an idea.

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Postby Slayer of Cliffracers » Sep 14 2010, 14:34

Dragon Angel wrote:
Nelgirith wrote:The only issue I see is that Nagas in Ashan are supposed to be peaceful and good-aligned while Medusas (Medusae ?) aren't. They could fit in as a twisted version of Nagas and as a neutral creature though.


I guess I lost some part of the Lore. ¿Were is it established Nagas should be good?. As far as I see, all races in Ashan (even humans and, to an extent, light elves) are in gray zones... religious fanatics and vengeful xenofobs at some point, respectively, at least...

I see the Nagas and the Water Dragon at the core of a reptiloid race (and Ashan's races are more based in "kin" than other games). Medusas fit in it as twisted sorcerers, or as abnormal members of the race that - nevertheless - have useful habilities for battle... Of course, medusas may not be the nicest gals you can find around the race... and a four-bladed serpent warrior can be a more reliefing and ellegant sight, but equally deadly.


Heroes III introduced Nagas under the Wizard/Tower faction which was officially classified as Good. Heroes IV sort of dropped the good/evil thing but kept the Nagas as aligned to the wizards in the Order faction.

Medusa was also introduced in Heroes III under the Dungeon faction which was officially classified as Evil. They continued under the Chaos faction (the enemy of the Order faction) as aligned with the bandits and minotaurs (and other remnants of Dungeon faction).

Historically Nagas and Medusas have been enemies. But the Nagas have clearly fallen out favor with the wizards (hence their abscence) and Medusas have also gone.

But to have Nagas and Medusas in the same town is not inconceivable. The dwarves went from being aligned with the Elves in the Rampart, to being on the Order faction which is the enemy of the Nature faction (where the elves ended up).

Alignments are in the Heroes world in no sense permanently established, creatures have historically swapped alignment before.
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