Lets talk about magic

[Mirez]

Hi all,

So far it's been awfully quit about the magic part in homm (or should I say mmh?). My question is what magic system do you think they will use or what do you want them to use?
I wasn't too found of the spells system in h5. Splitting it up in light, dark summoning and destructive sounded nice but made it easy to predict what the opponent will be using.
Personally I wouldn't mind seeing the elemental spells from heroes 3 back, you could have a might hero specialize in earth magic so it can still be useful with mass slow/stoneskin/shield

though they do need to get rid of the magic guild system. It's too much a pain to go back halfway across the map to learn that one spell. Wouldn't it be cool if heroes would learn spells when leveling up?

any thoughts?

[Elvin]

You might be pleasantly surprised. Elemental schools will make an appearance but there will be a few others as well.

[MattII]

I wasn't too found of the spells system in h5. Splitting it up in light, dark summoning and destructive sounded nice but made it easy to predict what the opponent will be using.

I never liked the Light/Dark Magic thing either although probably for the opposite reasons, since I'd have preferred to have seen Blessing/Cursing/Destructive/Summoning magic, and giving most heroes a fairly even chance of learning each school (add a few 'dark' spells like Vampirism into Blessing so that the 'bad guys' have some reason to learn it).

I'd also like to replace Earth Damage with Regular Damage and Magical Damage, and give some creatures non-Regular damage types (Succubus gets Fire Damage for example, and Mage gets Magical Damage). I'd also like to add in a few more damage types like Life Damage (does double damage to elemental, mechanical and undead types) and Necromancic Damage (does double damage to all creatures that aren't undead, elemental or mechanical)

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing the elemental spells from heroes 3 back, you could have a might hero specialize in earth magic so it can still be useful with mass slow/stoneskin/shield

No thanks, Elemental schools are too random for my tastes.

though they do need to get rid of the magic guild system. It's too much a pain to go back halfway across the map to learn that one spell. Wouldn't it be cool if heroes would learn spells when leveling up?

Again I agree overall, but for different reasons. I'd like to see the Mage-Guild replaced by a Library (stores 15 spells of any level, and you can put your own in) and a Scryery (puts one spell a day in the Library, and once it's full if you want any new spells you have to get rid of an old one).

[Blocks100]

I really missed the elemental schools in HOMM V, there just wasn't enough variation for my tastes. I always associated Fire (Curse) , and Water (Bless) with Light and Dark magics respectively. The didn't need to spell it out so blatantly in V....

I'd still keep the Mage Guilds in the towns in VI, but if this game is to be more of an RPG, why not make the higher level spells obtainable through quests only?

I want to traverse the desert wastes looking for an Ancient Pyramid and raid its sarcophagus for lost spell scrolls. Go deep Underground and find unique monsters and loot their secret tombs. Perform trials for Old Sages and be rewarded with arcane knowledge.

[SplinterHoMM]

I'd like magic guilds to sell additional spells (basically any spell hero can learn) for resources and magic shrines to teach one new spell (including lower level) with higher level priority.
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IMO objects and natural phenomena (like lightning, ice, fire, meteorites etc.) created by magic are real and non different from natural.Thus they are not affected(!) by magical resistance/immunity but only elemental immunity.Solid body objects deal physical and elemental damage at the same time.

[ThunderTitan]

Hmmm... each town having some magic schools associated with its mage guild while being allowed to purchase other spell types for each hero individually does sound cool... but in keeping with he random nature of the mage guild you should just buy random spells of the level you want...

[SplinterHoMM]

Skill requirement still applies, so buying spells you cant use is a waste...

[ecsunotos]

Skill requirement still applies, so buying spells you cant use is a waste...

Magic Skill reguired connected to spesific faction actually.
That's the best system IMHO

[Metathron]

I quite liked the HoMM V system, but the biggest downside for me was the low total number of spells, and the bad balance: which would you rather get - earthquake or phantom image, suffering or confusion?

I would most like to see faction specific spell schools, like in HoMM IV, where towns could build annexes to their mage guilds to learn the spells of allied factions (e.g. Life allied with Nature and Order). This for me was the best system.

The HoMM III system was also good.

[Tress]

Faction specific spells are way too hard to balance/ By giving full access to 2 of 4 and limited access to all 4 reduces balance issues.
Homm 4 MTG magic ripoff system was flawed to no end.

[ecsunotos]

Faction specific spells are way too hard to balance/ By giving full access to 2 of 4 and limited access to all 4 reduces balance issues.
Homm 4 MTG magic ripoff system was flawed to no end.

IMHO : if the power or function of spell of each faction hard to be balanced, than balance must be see from a wider point of view.

If a type of magic related to one faction considered weak, tend to defense ( not offense ), etc, then it can be balanced by setting up a good stats / ability of the troops it self. On the contrary, if a type of magic considered strong or offense then the stats / ability of the troops can be set to balace the strength of the magic.
So, as a global game we have a balance between might and magic of whole faction.

[MattII]

Magic Skill reguired connected to spesific faction actually.
That's the best system IMHO

Firstly, IMHO is just wrong, there's nothing humble about expressing your opinion, and secondly, tying magic skill to factions is an abysmal idea, the fact that you can't learn a whole school of magic just because you're the wrong faction is terrible.

[Metathron]

Homm 4 MTG magic ripoff system was flawed to no end.

How was it any more flawed than the spell systems from the other games?

[ThunderTitan]

Homm 4 MTG magic ripoff system was flawed to no end.

In what way?

IMO the only problem was the towns being all connected to one, which meant they couldn't add any new towns to the game.

[Tress]

In what way?

For one that schools were too one sided. Life school was practically useless. Creating any balance in such different spell and tying them to castle is nearly impossible. Creating hero that could specialize in more than one on single map was less than trivial task, since to acquire higher ups you needed much more levels than our days.
Even more schools that were less ones sided like order (had summons, dispels, nukes and other utility) was considered to be superior and balance ruining. That pretty much was also nod to death school with its cancellation and vampire summoning.
Furthemore they specialized spells that shouldn't be classified and should be accessible by everyone or none, like summon boat or town portal.

[ThunderTitan]

Right, so you're complaining that they weren't balanced well, kinda like the whole game.

But Life useless?! Seemed fine to me, but of course i haven't played much MP (for 4 it might actually be none at all even...).

[Tress]

But Life useless

I haven't either, only few game but I have red alot of tournament reports. Life in almost 100% cases were not chosen or lost quickly against opponent. Healing spells on low level units doesn't cut it. Berserk, quicksand or army of illusions gives a lot bigger edge. That's another problem, they weren't able to find suitable corner for blue deck, so they just gave stuff from everyone else.

[Soronarr]

Age of wonders 2 spell system. It roxorz. If only you could choose 2 elements instead of just one, and have combos..it would be perfection incarnate.

[ThunderTitan]

Age of wonders 2 spell system. It roxorz.

I'm not familiar with it, care to elaborate?!

But Life useless

I haven't either, only few game but I have red alot of tournament reports. Life in almost 100% cases were not chosen or lost quickly against opponent. Healing spells on low level units doesn't cut it. Berserk, quicksand or army of illusions gives a lot bigger edge. That's another problem, they weren't able to find suitable corner for blue deck, so they just gave stuff from everyone else.

Sounds like OP spells more like it. Life had some good buffs, probably just didn't have any OP spells in it.

And illusions (and mind control) are blue's thing... quicksand maybe should have been in Nature and Berserk definitely should have been in Chaos... fits better.

[Slayer of Cliffracers]

How about a form of magic for every one of the god-dragons? So Chaos, Order, Fire, Water, Earth, Air, Light, Darkness.