What's The Worst Faction ?

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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Soronarr
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Postby Soronarr » Aug 27 2010, 12:01

ecsunotos wrote:@ Soronarr > Yup, that point above means that fans dislike homogenous except for Haven / Knight, due to the fact that many fans like this faction.


What thet means that this is not a binary 0/1 thing.

People like things is they are well deisgned. Period. Homogenous or not.
If they strike a thematic/design or balance/utility chord well, people will like em.

For example, I started disliking the wizzard town more and more ever since it moved more and more towards oriental. Other will love it.

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Postby Soronarr » Aug 27 2010, 12:03

Seriously...Blizzard is the king of rip-offs....I wouldn't use it as an example of originality.

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Postby Tress » Aug 27 2010, 12:17

Seriously...Blizzard is the king of rip-offs....I wouldn't use it as an example of originality.


I know I am risking here, but I will still ask" like what"

Yes for example starcraft universe draws lots from aliens movies(ship interiors, scv's) but mainly races and concepts aren't any less original than other companies products. Protoss imo is race where i cant imagine anything similar in any other setting. Zerg is very unlike other insect races, like tyranids or starship trooper ones. Perhaps there is inspiration in those sources(like ghost probably inspired by Starship trooper telepaths), but they have managed to evolve those concepts to another level.
Their concept of elves have evolved heavily too.

Only thing I heavily dislike in blizz universes that they use same damn !@#! concept for their villains. There is 0 difference between Sylvanas or Kerrigan and if I am correct diablo 2 one of main villains was corrupted hero as well.
If homm 5 would at least evolve graphical concept of WH dark elves enaugh so they dont look like witch elves I would be happy with that faction.

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Postby Meandor » Aug 27 2010, 15:11

and if I am correct diablo 2 one of main villains was corrupted hero as well.


Diablo possesed main hero of Diablo 1. So yeah, we could say that.
...

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Postby MattII » Aug 27 2010, 19:17

konfeta wrote:Heh, about Dungeon diversity issue, I've actually read what one of the Heroes 5 developers said about the Dungeon situation. The HoMM 5 team felt that dungeon design was problematic because they believed it didn't really have a theme. Previous Dungeon incarnations, to them, were "a collection of different creatures, that for different reasons lived underground."

That's always been my issue with H3, most of the towns feel more like a bunch of creatures mashed together than an actual faction.

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Postby ecsunotos » Aug 29 2010, 4:37

Nice infos guys :hoo:

Back to our subjet, this thread is actually dedicated to explore any ideas from fans about what they don't like about any faction concept. Here, we try to give Ubi & BH a formula about what's bad / boring faction is. So that they won't give us such faction in HoMM 6.

Preliminary ideas about the formula it self have been emerge, basically fans want a well designed faction concept :
- Fans tend to dislike any faction which is too homogenous ( too much original troop from the faction it self ), such as dungeon which has too much dark elves troops in their lines up.
- Fans tend to dislike faction that give us micro management and weak low level troops that not powerfull enough for path / mining clearence. It's Inferno
- Fans tend to dislike / tend to not too often to play with too strong faction ( Fortress / Dwarfs in HoMM V (?) )
- Fans tend to dislike boring town screen theme ( dungeon / inferno / fortress in HoMM V (?) )

That's what I can conclude from our dicussion. Any more / better Idea ?

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Postby parcaleste » Aug 29 2010, 7:06

I wouldn't call the Inferno town screen boring as it is one of the more interesting to "scroll" around from them all.

For me boring are the humans, even though the most balanced faction. They need a little something not to look so dull. Like make them a bad guys (those red troops storyline type in HV). They are always the good that save the world, bla-bla, suck it, *****! Want you destroyed and squashed like a cockroach. BLAAAAH! :tongue:

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Postby Metal Wolf » Aug 29 2010, 7:18

parcaleste wrote:
For me boring are the humans, even though the most balanced faction. They need a little something not to look so dull. Like make them a bad guys (those red troops storyline type in HV). They are always the good that save the world, bla-bla, suck it, *****! Want you destroyed and squashed like a cockroach. BLAAAAH! :tongue:


I actually hated them being the evil and corrupted side in HeroesV. I think Heroes should keep having a classic "good vs. evil" theme. All this "good turn evil and neutral team up with evil to become good" just doesnt seem fit to Heroes (the official campaign) imo.

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Postby parcaleste » Aug 29 2010, 7:28

I am not saying they need to go bad at any cost. Just that they need something to make them not look so dull, but am lazy to think about it right now.

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Postby ecsunotos » Aug 30 2010, 2:07

parcaleste wrote:For me boring are the humans, even though the most balanced faction. They need a little something not to look so dull.


Again, word boring ( dull ) emerges ... HoMM is not just a game of brain... it's a game of heart. People play it by their feeling, and not only just by the balance of stats / ability of troops / hero.

So, what's the definition of :
- boring / dull ?
- balanced stats / ability ?
;|

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parcaleste
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Postby parcaleste » Aug 30 2010, 3:52

*GRIFFIN ETERNAL!* >casts random spell<

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Postby Tress » Aug 30 2010, 7:16

- Fans tend to dislike any faction which is too homogenous ( too much original troop from the faction it self ), such as dungeon which has too much dark elves troops in their lines up.


Somehow I don't think there is any evidence that would support it. I am not sure how many people like Conflux and Fortress, but imo they might be unpopular(if they are) rather due to reason that their are added to game and jump out of line after that. People like overpowered factions NP. For example in HOMM 4 death was most popular faction (along with academy - hypnosis, djins) despite fact that vampires were most OP unit ingame, to a point it was banned in necromancy in tournament games.
Besides where do we have info that people to tend to dislike Homm5 dungeon.


So, what's the definition of :
- boring / dull ?
- balanced stats / ability ?


Useless amount of defense/ low offense. Slow units. In homm3 fortress was rather unpopular due to it's low offense capabilities and limited magic potential.

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Postby TheRider » Aug 30 2010, 8:59

I think human town adds to the diversity among all factions - having "one race" faction with all units almost the same. And if the rest of the factions have diversity among their units, no one sees Haven as a problem. They will be unique and different comparing to the others.

But on other hand we have this stupid idea in HMM5 to create all dwarves faction, almost all orcs faction, almost all dark elves faction - and this is why the whole game races seem boring.

Sylvan in Hmm5 is great, Academy is ok (little bit random, gargoyles dont fit IMO, rackshashas are strange option to have them in the wizards line up - they are demons in the mythology, the nagas are considered keepers of wisdom, the first beings Buddha told Dharma, so they fit to the wizards, no problem that they are snake-like creatures), Inferno and Necropolis are ok, they have their own themes, but the rest sucks.

If in HMM6 they keep Humans conservative society with most of the units humans, it will be ok, but they have to full change Dark Elves, Dwarves, Orcs and stop using Nival ideas. They can consider the happenings in HMM5 (to keep the story consistent) "Dark ages" when all factions have closed themselves because of fear, HMM6 while announcing events 400 before what happened in HMM5 can represent different age with completly different line-ups and the expansion if it is about events after the time - they can use the explanation that all races again have changed trying to find other means for survival.

If they make the Faceless the new faction, they can use a dark elf or two in it - this is one possible line-up:
1. Deep Gnome
2. Razor (small underground reptilian-ptherodactile like bird with sharp beak)
3. Shadow Blade (dark elf)
4. Medusa (not human but dark elf)
5. Overlord (beholder, but the copy rights for that word belong to Wizards of the Coast
6. Chimera
7. Reaver

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Postby Soronarr » Aug 30 2010, 9:45

MEh...I just want the factions to have more of the HOMM2 feel.

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Postby TheRider » Aug 30 2010, 10:17

Like boars among Wizards (this is the most un-magical creature, wonder what for are they using it in the all-day life of the Wizard Towers). Or with Phoenix in the forest among elves? It will burn the whole forest while hatching.

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Postby Soronarr » Aug 30 2010, 10:21

Like wizards being more medieval like and less oriental.

Like removing the gryphon from the castle.

And Phoenix represent the circle of life and death - perfect for nature.
A burnt part of the forest re-grows, with lands more feritle.

Also, allegedly, phoenixes can control whom (and what) their fires burn, at lest in some versions.

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Postby MattII » Aug 30 2010, 10:42

Soronarr wrote:Like wizards being more medieval like and less oriental.

Wizards are Arabic, not Oriental, and Medieval is already taken by Haven.

Like removing the gryphon from the castle.

Why, the Christian church lauded Griffins (or Gryphons, or however they spelt the name) as holy, and since Haven is basically just a Medieval Christian faction...

And Phoenix represent the circle of life and death - perfect for nature.
A burnt part of the forest re-grows, with lands more feritle.

True, but Phoenixes build their nests in the desert according to legend, and I'm trying hard to think how 'desert' and 'forest' can be put together.

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Postby parcaleste » Aug 30 2010, 11:09

MattII wrote:... I'm trying hard to think how 'desert' and 'forest' can be put together.

Next to a Phoenix. :D

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Postby MattII » Aug 30 2010, 11:30

Yes, okay, Phoenix is good at turning forest to desert, but it's not exactly sustainable is it?

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Postby Tress » Aug 30 2010, 11:50

Forgot part where heroes were documentary on phoenixes and combustion.
Fantasy fiction doesn't have to be realistic. Lets say flames are magical and cant burn stuff they dont want to. IFf we watch on such angle dragons of theirs their size cant physically fly. And unless Ashan have discovered some sort of new metal alloy, such plates as ones on knights cant be normally wielded by a person.

Fiction doesn't have to be realistic as long as it makes some sense and everything obeys rules it sets itself.


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